"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
07/18/2015 at 09:00 • Filed to: track day bro
34
45|
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
07/18/2015 at 09:00 • Filed to: track day bro | 34
| 45 |
Arguably two of the best episodes of Knight Rider featured KARR, the evil twin of KITT and equal in almost every way. I got an idea of how Michael Knight must have felt when I had the opportunity to dice it out with another lightly modified Subaru BRZ like mine at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ’ first event at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .
Read the Full Article Here on RightFootDown or Continue Below
I saw it on the registration list prior to the event. It was in the Green run group with me. It was even World Rally Blue which, as all Subaru enthusiasts know, is The One True Subaru Color. When I saw it Saturday morning, I sized it up, as any !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! worth his salt would do. His BRZ was the Limited version, while mine was the less equipped Premium. All of those optional extras weighed a couple of pounds more, so I clearly had an advantage there. But he also had better tires than me, as well as a big brake kit rather than my track pads on otherwise stock brakes. Could this offset my car’s infinitesimal lightness advantage? As a Novice driver he would have an instructor on board, and my co-driver/other half would be riding with me, so again we were on equal ground. This was going to be fun.
My clone and I never saw each other on track the first day of the weekend event. I passed a lot of less experienced novice drivers, and some of the more experienced drivers in Corvettes and Camaros passed me with ease, but my BRZ !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! never appeared ahead of me or in my mirror. We were lapping the track at a similar pace. But finally, halfway through Sunday, he got caught up in some slower traffic early in the session, and I caught up to him. Let the games begin!
Read the Full Article Here or Continue Below
The first thing I noticed was that some of his braking points were different than mine, and the early ones caught me out for our first couple of laps together. Fortunately I was giving him plenty of space. His lines through some of the turns were different than mine, too. I was taking a tighter line through turn 7 to take maximum advantage of the banking, lifting for turn 8 where he would actually brake briefly, and then staying tight through turn 9, again to make use of the banking. We were equal through turn 10, but he braked very early and took a very different line through 11 and 12. This time, he was doing something right, because he got a good run on me through 13 and 14, and put some serious distance between us down the front straightaway. It would take me half a lap to catch back up to him again, usually through 7, 8, and 9 where I was significantly faster than him.
We continued on like this through most of the session. We’d briefly get separated while passing slower traffic, or allowing faster cars to pass us, but though I couldn’t get by the other BRZ, he couldn’t shake me off his tail, either. After the session, we walked over to chat with him, and tell him what a great time we had. His instructor enjoyed watching both of us as well, and had been keeping tabs on my progress to see if I needed a point-by or not. I never got one, nor did I need or want one, since he was slightly faster around the track overall. The instructor then gave me an education in excuses I could use, such as that the other car’s tires were better, or that he had the Limited’s spoiler for extra downforce. I fell back on the Jalopnik favorite, that !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .
In the final session of the day, soon after a fire spitting Evo passed me (seriously, it shot flames out the exhaust when the driver snapped off the throttle quickly - it was awesome), I caught up to the other BRZ again while he slowed to let the Evo by. It was on again! This time, I decided to try doing what he was doing in some of the turns where I could tell he was faster. Rather than slowing for his different line through turns 10, 11, and 12, I matched it, complete with his early braking point. I found myself under much better control coming out of turn 12, and though I still lifted slightly over the small crest in 13, I kept right up with him through 14 and the front straightaway. I’d just erased his biggest advantage over me.
We drove the same line through turns 1, 2, and 3, but he carried more speed than I did, mainly because I was chickening out and lifting before I needed to for turn 1. Not only was I already going almost 110mph before braking for this turn as it was, I also had a scare earlier in the weekend when I braked too late and barely managed to keep the car on the track. Intellectually I know I could’ve braked later, but I was intimidated to actually do it, especially since no race or championship was on the line. It’s all in my head, and something I’ll try to get over during future visits to Palmer.
Read the Full Article Here or Continue Below
Still, it was enough. I gathered him back in a bit through the first part of the track when we caught up to a slower BMW. The Bimmer let him by in turn 4, and let me by after turn 5. I reeled in the BRZ through 7, 8, and 9, as usual, stayed with him down the straight, and... got a point-by! I veered right to pass him as directed on the way into turn 10. Now it was my turn to lead the way, and to show him where I was faster and how I was doing it.
The Force was strong with this one, and with equal cars I certainly didn’t run away from him like I did from some less experienced drivers. But I still put some distance between us with my better line through 7, 8, and 9, and from this point on I slowly pulled away from him through the last few laps of the session until the checkered flag waved.
We chatted again. I thanked him for the point-by, and told him I’d gotten faster by learning where he had been faster through turns 10-12 and applying it myself. He said that after I passed he’d tried to do the same to me, but hadn’t quite picked it up. I explained my technique through 7, 8, and 9, and how I was getting through there faster than him. It’s too bad we didn’t have yet another opportunity to get on track together to see who was faster once he tried it my way.
Track days and high performance driving schools are not races. But that doesn’t mean you can’t have some fun dicing with other cars within the rules of the game, like our twin BRZs did. It can also be a great learning tool to see what a car like yours can do in the hands of another driver, especially one who is faster than you.
PS9
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 09:35 |
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K.I.T.T
K.A.R.R.
KIT KARR
objektiv1
> PS9
07/18/2015 at 10:35 |
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Fixed it.
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Justin Hughes
> PS9
07/18/2015 at 10:41 |
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Bad KITT KARR.
Tim
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 10:54 |
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Great read. You just reminded me of how much fun I had in my BRZ at a track day. I think I need to sign up for another one!
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Justin Hughes
> Tim
07/18/2015 at 10:55 |
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Thanks! It’s not underpowered - it’s just easier to let the Corvettes by!
None
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 11:01 |
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Nice footage and some nice driving by both of you. You seemed to close on him in that downhill sweeper as well as a couple other back to back turns. Looks like a fun, but challenging circuit.
Countersteer
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 11:02 |
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It’s the tires. If you weren’t suffering brake issues, his big brake kit was only slowing him down. He was wasting power accelerating the larger rotors and then using the bigger brakes to slow them down. Not to mention the increase in unsprung mass.
If the brakes can repeatedly (no fade) slow the car to the limit of tire adhesion, any “big brake” kits are a waste.
Nobi
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 11:03 |
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Just throwing it out there, why has no one done up a pair of KITT and KARR track cars? Not only would I pay to watch them go at it, but I’d love to see people get the hell out of KARR’s way.
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Justin Hughes
> None
07/18/2015 at 11:06 |
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Thanks! I wrote about
the track
earlier this week. It’s quite technical, and the video doesn’t show you quite how vast the elevation changes are. At 190 feet, it’s more than Laguna Seca. And since it’s almost all curves, you never get a chance to relax. Even the front straightaway is a triple digit speed sweeper, so you have to be on the ball all the time. It’s great fun.
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Justin Hughes
> Countersteer
07/18/2015 at 11:10 |
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While I agree with your point, I don’t think it was slowing him down enough to give me a clear advantage. Neither of us has quite optimized our lines around the entire track, so with a better driver than me his car can be faster. But you’re right that the big brakes weren’t necessary for us at this track. Racing fluid and pads on otherwise stock brakes worked fine for me with almost no fade. My pedal is a teeny bit more squishy now than before the track weekend, but I’ll bleed that out when I swap pads.
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Justin Hughes
> Nobi
07/18/2015 at 11:12 |
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Probably because Trans Ams aren’t the best track cars. But who cares? That would be epic. And a great LeMons theme, if it hasn’t been done already.
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None
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 11:22 |
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Thanks for the thread to that article as well, I missed it. I had the same thought you mentioned in that article while watching the video about him being just a little bit wider on some of the apexes. But really good, smooth and safe driving by both. Makes me want to get my BRZ out there as well.
AthomSfere
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 11:51 |
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Looks like a very nice track!
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Justin Hughes
> AthomSfere
07/18/2015 at 11:55 |
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It’s amazing!
ElanaR
> None
07/18/2015 at 12:03 |
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Someone showed him a good line into 7 ;)
MyNoTypyhoonIsSlow
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 12:29 |
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While I don’t think anybody has actually raced KITT or KARR, seeing this did remind me of this guy. 1985 trans am with a functional shaker hood. I can’t seem to find the other pictures, but I believe it says “Bandit” on the back of the duck tail.
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Justin Hughes
> MyNoTypyhoonIsSlow
07/18/2015 at 12:32 |
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Which is a completely accurate reference, as the “Bandit” drove this style Trans Am in Smokey and the Bandit 3 .
Please let’s not get into an argument over the Condederate Battle Flag license plate...
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MyNoTypyhoonIsSlow
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 12:34 |
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Yeah he obviously went for the colors from the first 2 movies, but I believe he said the 3rd gen fit the class rules better.
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Sheriff Of American Douchetown
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 14:18 |
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Racist! (the car, not Bo and Cledeus)
doubleshotpower
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 14:34 |
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You never stated what track pads (and compound) you were running, and what big brake kit the other guy had. Hopefully he’s not one of those “got it on eBay guys”.
Shenanigans
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 14:38 |
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Track days with other drivers in similar cars are the absolute best, I’m glad you had a good time.
One of the best weekends I’ve had was at Heartland Park last year, I took my Protege and had a lot of back and forth with a driver in a surprisingly similar-performing 3 - both cars were pretty much stock, though he had some grippy tires and I was on G-Maxes(way better than an all-season probably should be, but certainly not a race tire). He had more grip but I was more aggressive with my braking, though by the end he improved enough I’d need better tires to keep up.
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budgie654
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 14:43 |
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Um cool story bro?
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Justin Hughes
> doubleshotpower
07/18/2015 at 16:11 |
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Winmax W5 pads for me - an endurance racing compound, from what I'm told. I didn't recognize the brake kit, but it wasn't Brembo or a name I'd recognize.
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Justin Hughes
> Shenanigans
07/18/2015 at 16:13 |
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Another best time I had was in my modified Saturn SC2 vs. a 1959 Turner Mk I vintage race car. He was slightly quicker in the turns. I was slightly quicker on the straights. We were both MUCH faster than everyone else in our Novice run group, so we did a lot of passing. It was fun.
Breasticles
> Countersteer
07/18/2015 at 16:26 |
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I think most big brake kits weigh less than the stock setup.
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Sk3ptik0n
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 16:57 |
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OK, BRZ guys. I have a question for you. IN a year or two, if all the start align, I may be in the market for a car I like. By that I mean a car that I can drive and feel like I am driving a car and not some family-mobile with BORING stenciled on the side, headlights and around the license plate.
Since I won’t be winning the lottery, there are a few cars I am thinking of: MX5 Miata (Of course), BRZ and maybe a Subaru Sti or an older Mitsubishi assuming it hasn’t had an engine swap or belonged to someone below the age of 20.
My #1 choice if I had the money today would be the 2016 MX5. But I also really like the BRZ.
If I were to get a pretty pristine BRZ, how much money would I have to spend on it to make it just a little more fun on track day?
I am not talking going racing with it, I am talking going a tad faster than a Fiat 500or a guy taking a stroll.
Yes, I confess, even though I am a loyal Jalopnik reader, I have not been reading the articles I should have been reading. Mostly because for health reasons buying a new car just for me to have fun would have been extravagant. But things have changed a bit and I need to start my research so that in a year or two I can pull the trigger.
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Justin Hughes
> Sk3ptik0n
07/18/2015 at 17:16 |
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1. Good tires. If it has the stock Prius tires, ditch them and put on something good. I’m running Michelin Pilot Super Sports, which I got thinking I might get to a few autocrosses this year, and suddenly found myself going to the track regularly. They’re holding up well, considering, but the sidewalls have seen better days after my weekend at Palmer. Anyway, get some good tires.
2. Upgrade your brake pads and brake fluid. I’m using Winmax W5 pads on all four corners, and have yet to experience fade on the track. This is more a safety item than a performance item, but better braking helps you put in faster laps too.
That’s all you really need, and all I’ve done to my BRZ. The next step is racing harnesses, I think. I did OK with just the stock seat belt at Track Night In America events, but for two long days of track time both my other half and I were feeling a little worn out from hanging on for dear life in the corners. The harnesses will fix that.
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okeydokeykaroke
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 17:51 |
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So bummed I moved away from W. Mass right as that track opened, looks wicked fun! Hopefully next time I go home I can check it out.
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Soul Shinobi
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 19:13 |
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Fun read, but this seriously needs a map inserted as there are 3 versions with 13, 14, and 15 corners. Most maps have 15, the one on their site has 14 (which seems to be what you’re using), and the one Tony’s Track Days used when I went to Palmer on my motorcycle uses 13.
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Justin Hughes
> Soul Shinobi
07/18/2015 at 19:28 |
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Officially, Palmer has 14 turns. Yes, this is the map from their site. Originally they had numbered the bend between what is now marked as turns 1 and 2, but they decided against it. Even Chin Motorsports’ maps they sent to us listed 15 turns because of this change.
But 14 shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be 14.
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Nobi
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 20:56 |
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Exactly! Someone at LeMons get on this!
ruthless013
> Justin Hughes
07/18/2015 at 23:02 |
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track day, bro-mance.
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None
> Justin Hughes
07/19/2015 at 10:38 |
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Did you replace the rotors and brake lines as well?
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Justin Hughes
> None
07/19/2015 at 12:20 |
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No, both are stock for now. If I keep doing track stuff they’re on the list to upgrade, but since the brakes work fine right now they’re not too high on that list.
TomMikele
> Justin Hughes
07/19/2015 at 17:12 |
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When are you going to meet his parents and the rest of his family?
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Justin Hughes
> TomMikele
07/19/2015 at 17:14 |
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Are you talking to me, or my BRZ?
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None
> doubleshotpower
07/19/2015 at 18:51 |
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Stop Tech makes a Sport Pak consisting of pads, rotors and lines for $500. They also have their Big Brake Kit which would be 4 grand or so front and back. Not cheap, but quite a bit less than Brembo.
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None
> TomMikele
07/19/2015 at 18:53 |
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Lame.
computiNATEor
> Justin Hughes
07/20/2015 at 16:37 |
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Whoa. Who tracked their F10? 535i?
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Justin Hughes
> computiNATEor
07/20/2015 at 16:46 |
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He’d intended to run his Mustang SVO (!!!) but there were some problems with the seat belts and they wouldn’t let him run it. The Bimmer is his daily driver, and he drove it well.
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computiNATEor
> Justin Hughes
07/20/2015 at 16:55 |
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Awesome! Any idea how the tires and brakes held up?
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Justin Hughes
> computiNATEor
07/20/2015 at 17:42 |
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No problems at all. That said, he was a bit slower than me, and not pushing as hard as I was in a “slower” car.
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computiNATEor
> Justin Hughes
07/20/2015 at 18:31 |
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Well, you know, daily driver and all that. Plus a nearly 4,000lb curb weight...
TheIglu
> Justin Hughes
07/21/2015 at 10:10 |
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Nice vid, but too many wheels. This was from yesterday. My first time on this track, not a bad place to have a little fun.
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Justin Hughes
> TheIglu
07/21/2015 at 11:04 |
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Nice! So far I’m too chicken to take to a track on two wheels. I’m a pretty good driver, but merely an adequate rider.
Of course, there’s always the argument that a track event on a bike would be the perfect way to work on improving that.