Which Car Brand Have You Given Up On?

"brian1321" (brian1321) 07/16/2015 at 11:58 • Filed to: None

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Jalopnik survey time! There have been a lot of angry blocks of texts regarding certain automakers and why you hate them. Voice your opinion here! I will tally the votes, create a top 10, and pick the best rant to go along with it.

Winners will be notified via email.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:01

17

Suzuki

They refuse to bring the Every Joy Pop Turbo

BrtStlnd > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:01

2

Mitsubishi is like a sad, single-A MLB affiliate in a run down, rust belt town. A sad place where big league dreams go to die.

brian1321 > BrtStlnd 07/16/2015 at 12:03

2

For Sweden > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:03

7

Oldsmobile

dogisbadob > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:03

2

Fiat

They’ll never improve their reliability. Fiat left the US market for a reason, and when they finally came back, they went straight to the bottom, right where they left off.

Margin Of Error > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:04

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Lexus, why people are still buying these boring beigemobiles ?

Sorry Toyota, but I can still see the Camry you’re trying to hide behind that predator grille.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:06

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Fucking VW, (In the U.S. anyways). They get by making bad cars like the Jetta and passing it off as a “precision engineered luxury car” solely because it’s german. The only reason they can get by with this is because they used to sell good cars here and are now riding off of that reputation.

Tldr: fuck Volkswagen U.S

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:06

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I normally appreciate like most cars for the fact they exist as awful as they may be. Like I’d see a Mirage on the road and I’d be like, look at that cool car, such extreme colors, low on power but it’s so financially accessible for so many more people and great mileage. Just so sufficient as a car

If I had to give up on a brand, it’d be Chrysler. The three model lineup isn’t going to do in 2015, they should just write off the brand if it’s like that. It wasn’t any better when they had that nothing-special badge engineered Aspen and I’m glad that they redid the 200 to something that’s halfway decent but from reviews I’ve read, it still won’t take much sales from the Japanese midsize sedans.

I loved the Town and Country/Cousins when it came out. I was dropped off to college after an 18 hour trip in that car and it just took in all the miles. What I loved the most was definitely the Stow N Go seats. It made me LOVE Chrysler, it was just such a clever and simple invention on their vans. But they haven’t had any innovations like that in a while.

georgechristensen > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:07

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BMW - Nearly everything post E90 seems to be a worse version of a pre-existing model and they seem hellbent on making their cars impossible to work on. Kraut space magic isn’t working in their favour.

Toyota - Everything they’re making now is hideous, the interiors usually feel cheap and they’re much less reliable than they were. They’re being outclassed by the competition and are resting on their laurels.

Ferrari - They’re scumbags

Holden - Local production of the Boganmobile is ending and they seem to only be rebadging the worst models GM has on offer

Nissan - Same as Toyota

Mitsubishi - They’ve never been good but they have at least made some good models, none of which they are making currently or planning to make.

MLGCarGuy > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:08

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Lexus, because their Remote Touch interface sucks, they’re charging more and more for less features, their navigation maps look like they’re from the early 2000s, their styling is either hit or miss (more miss than hit), and their reliability is worsening.

Brian, The Life of > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:08

11

Only three models. Chrysler has given up on itself on behalf of all of us.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:09

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100% Mitsubishi!

Mitsubishi used to be a brand you desired to own they had an awesome selection of cars. Evo,Eclipse,Galant VR4,Starion,3000GT!!! and more. Now they are nothing but a washed up useless car company.

They deserve to finally be put out of their misery I can’t stand to see them suffer anymore.

BrtStlnd > georgechristensen 07/16/2015 at 12:09

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Ferrari are scumbags?

georgechristensen > Margin Of Error 07/16/2015 at 12:09

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You know, I’ve found that the non F-Sport IS models look far less hideous with just a slight design tweak

Margin Of Error > V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches 07/16/2015 at 12:10

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VW is like the Heineken’s of cars.

Margin Of Error > georgechristensen 07/16/2015 at 12:11

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Still a Camry

Nibby > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:12

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All of them. Fuck it, I’m building a teleportation device.

Margin Of Error > BrtStlnd 07/16/2015 at 12:13

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They only make cars to make money, not for racing.

So, yes, bunch of scumbags letting enthusiasts down.

georgechristensen > Margin Of Error 07/16/2015 at 12:13

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Wouldn’t that be the ES, which is based on the Camry not the IS which is its own RWD platform?

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 07/16/2015 at 12:13

4

In America, they refuse to bring anything.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Margin Of Error 07/16/2015 at 12:13

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The only Lexuses that are based on a Camry right now is the RX and the ES. The ES of which is closer to the Avalon than it is to the ES. I think it’s unfair that you’re saying they’re boring when they were kind of boring and now with their extreme predator face, you’re still calling them boring.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Brian, The Life of 07/16/2015 at 12:15

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Posted Chrysler down there too, exactly the same reason, I thought they had more than only 3 cars. When I searched it up, turns out that’s all they had. And in that, I love the Town and Country the most since they took out the SRT 300.

Margin Of Error > Brian, The Life of 07/16/2015 at 12:16

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Bring back the Aspen !

JR1 > Brian, The Life of 07/16/2015 at 12:16

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The 300 and the SRT8 are a shining star in an otherwise pathetic lineup

Azrek > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:16

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Scion.

I am in my 30s and when I have to goto a shopping mall to get new work shoes, I will walk by some clothing stores in the mall and go, “Man, I am too old for any of those clothes in there.” That is exactly how I feel when I see a Scion.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:16

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“Given up on” implies that I’ve given said brand a chance, so there goes Mopar. I guess I’d have to say Toyota. They made some of my favorite cars ever and for about a decade were (IMO) the best brand on the planet. Now they’re so intent on being a family brand that they won’t even bring in their sports car to the US using their own badge.

JR1 > Margin Of Error 07/16/2015 at 12:17

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I actually like the grill (Puts on flame gear)

JR1 > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:18

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So glad no one said Lincoln. That means there is hope!

BrownMiataDieselWagon > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:20

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Honda. The days of affordable, lightweight, fuel-efficient, fun-to-drive models are long gone. Not to mention this airbag recall fiasco.

mazda616 > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:21

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Have to say Chrysler as well. They keep saying they're going to ax the Dodge brand. Maybe then Chrysler will have more than 3 models?

ly2v8-Brian > For Sweden 07/16/2015 at 12:21

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Sweden pls

ly2v8-Brian > JR1 07/16/2015 at 12:23

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Or they're so foregone that no one even remembers them.

Amoore100 > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:23

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Honda. Ever since their beginning their cars were always the best in whatever their class was, up until around 2010 when they started languishing and letting their redesigns become more and more mediocre. Even in 2005, their models won nearly every comparison test and the 2006 Civic was Motor Trend’s Car of the Year. Look at the new Civic now, receiving poor reviews and overall generally negative feedback. What happened to the Honda of ten years ago, let alone the Honda that gave us the Prelude and original NSX?

For Sweden > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:23

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New Jersey

Rust Belt

These Being The Same Place

JR1 > ly2v8-Brian 07/16/2015 at 12:25

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Just let me dream man

In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:26

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Insert some mainstream brand and everyone moans that they don’t make “MUH 300HP UNDER 25K” car anymore

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:26

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Subaru. In the last decade they’ve pulled an anti-GM and gone from making interesting and highly competetive cars to making generic also-rans.

ly2v8-Brian > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:27

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Non Mazda Japanese brands.

Toyota-ugly and crap

Mitsubishi- crap

Nissan- ugh

Honda- yawn

Subaru- really crappy interiors

Jessie Louthan > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:28

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I would say Ford (had 14 Ford products over the years), but the FiST gives me hope.

Saracen > ly2v8-Brian 07/16/2015 at 12:28

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I couldn’t have said it any better.

Jessie Louthan > Brian, The Life of 07/16/2015 at 12:29

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Three cars, only one is worth a crap.

The Town & Country.

ly2v8-Brian > JR1 07/16/2015 at 12:29

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Ok

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:30

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Fuckin’ Oakland. No new models for 84 years, they’ve got some explaining to do. Their handling, power, and level of features are crap. No dealer support? $ 24 k? Not going for it.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:34

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Scion

When I first heard about Scion I was enthralled - finally a brand of cars for young people who were into cars. The first few that came out (xB, xZ, tC) were quirky and fun but practical at the same time and had that Toyota reliability. They had a brilliant no hassle/no haggle model, allowed you to dealer accessorize the car and keep the warranty, even rolling the upgrades into your payment if you wanted, and had financing options for young people (i.e. people with little money, no credit history). But most importantly they promised a return to fun, simple motoring joy.

And then it all fell apart. I think one of they keys to the downfall was... old people. Most all of the Scions I saw on the road were driven by people >50 years old. In fact my dad had a friend who’d had kind of a rough time in life, had gone through bankruptcy, and was working to get back on his feet. He wanted a new car and Scion worked with him through their financing to get him into a new car. He started with an xB because it was practical, efficient, and reliable. He loved it so much, he later upgraded to tC. The appeal extended to other people, especially those who were retired and on a fixed income, because it was a lot of practical car for the money.

I don’t know what happened, I guess Toyota smelled the money because the brand lost it’s identity of “Youth-Oriented-Motoring” and became “Cheap Toyota” for the get-off-my-lawn crowd. Sure, there have been a few attempts along the way to return to the course they strayed from, with the FR-S being the most obvious. But that injection of awesome was too little, too late. And the lack of continued product evolution for the FR-S meant it was like a one time hit with the defibrillator to the chest of a cardiac patient... “CLEAR!” *BZZZZT* “Well, that didn’t save him. Let’s pack...” “But doctor, you only gave him one zap” “Yes, and clearly it didn’t work. So let’s pack...” “But doctor, look, I think he’s struggling to breath..” *Pulls plug* “Nope, no he’s not, now let’s go home.”

And sadly Scion languishes, it’s star child the FR-S left to rot on the vine, while the brand pedals a bunch of rebadged Toyota crap cans repainted in bright colors under the guise of “fun.”

Rust in peace, Scion. You are already dead to me.

brian1321 > For Sweden 07/16/2015 at 12:38

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Have you been to Newark? Rusty.

TheHondaBro > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:52

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Unless they get their act together, Acura.

spentaLS1 > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:56

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BMW - My 335i was in the shop more than it was being driven. Lost alot of good faith in the brand.

Tekamul > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 12:56

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

They will continue to abondon their (distant) enthusiast roots, instead catering strictly to heavily lined wallets seeking status symbols.

Their future will be

FWD ‘deluxe’ compacts to appeal to the EPA

AWD coupes, sedans (a few) and crossovers with average sticker prices 40% above starting MSRP

RWD Z-series, of which they will sell 30 a year

6-figure emerging tech cars, of which they will sell 35 a year

All will be turbo, auto, leather lined, numb.

BloodlessWeevil > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 13:04

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ALL OF THEM! Modern cars are a disgrace to the very concept of putting things inside other things and then rolling them around on wheels. Warranty claims are though the roof, over complicated mechanical systems break constantly while giving us power that makes the 70s look like the heyday of performance. Sure, there are muscle cars and Ferrari’s in the world, but how many do you see on your compute? Even if you do see one what are the odds it actually has the guts of a sports car, the most popular Mustang comes with a four banger for Christ’s sake!

Automakers design cramped, coffin-like interiors with wrap-around consoles that will hug you tighter than your wife. On which every button is some how just out of reach despite being small enough to open the passenger door from the drivers seat. All this is stuffed into vehicles that make you think the designers accidentally microwaved the clay model before they even started sculpting it!

Speaking of stuffed, is it so much to ask that automakers leave out the depleted uranium ballast?!? Seriously, some modern sports coupes out weigh half ton trucks from only twenty years ago!

E92M3 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 07/16/2015 at 13:15

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I feel so sorry for your dads friend. Wasting years of his life in Scions when he could been driving some fun cars for under $10k. They wouldn’t l be new, but they could of raised his pulse every once in a while.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Margin Of Error 07/16/2015 at 13:19

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Well people race the shit out of the 458, it’s all over Le Mans, despite it being involved in taking out LMPs like the plague. ThetheFerrari is not for racing, I agree. They may come to Le Mans as a manufacturer team, rumors.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 13:37

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GM-Can’t stop fucking up and building death traps, or at least admitting they made some.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Snuze: Needs another Swede 07/16/2015 at 13:44

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“And then it all fell apart. I think one of they keys to the downfall was... old people. Most all of the Scions I saw on the road were driven by people >50 years old.”

Cheap, practical and youthful cars have always been appealing to older people. For example... Half of the buyers of the original Mustang were old people too.

And as a divorced guy in his 40s with 2 kids 50% of the time, something like a Scion xB is one of my top car choices... though I like the 1st gen model better than the 2nd gen.

But personally I think the Scion brand is pointless.

Toyota doesn’t need a youth brand. They just need some more youthful vehicles for the Toyota brand.

Mercedes Streeter > dogisbadob 07/16/2015 at 13:57

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But bro, like infinite versions of the 500!!! *snicker*

carcrasher88 > JR1 07/16/2015 at 13:57

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I honestly wouldn’t say Lincoln, either. They’ve actually been doing a decent job starting to differentiate their cars from their Ford counterparts.

Like the MKZ. Not only do they not share a single body panel or the interior, you can’t get the 3.7 Duratec V6 in the Fusion.

The MKC is pretty much the same way. No shared interior or body panels and you can’t get the 2.3 EcoBoost I4 in the Escape.

The next generation MKX is also separating itself from the Edge, with it having the 3.7 Duratec as standard, as opposed to the 3.5 in the Edge, and the 2.7 EcoBoost will have 25 more hp and 30 lb-ft of torque than in the Edge.

Plus, they’re bringing the Continental back.

Now all they need to do is get rid of the MKT or redesign it to not be an ugly whale, and replace the Navigator with a new, all aluminum version based on the F-150 with engines you can’t get in a redesigned Expedition.

There’s definitely hope for Lincoln, especially if they keep doing things right.

Mercedes Streeter > Nibby 07/16/2015 at 13:58

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I’ll one up you...

JR1 > carcrasher88 07/16/2015 at 14:13

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I think they will. It might not be the premier luxury brand it once was but with a new Continental coming out they are getting closer.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 14:56

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BMW - not the direction I think they should be going in. Putting a 3 banger in the i8 made that clear to me

MB - just way to complicated. I’d never want to own one of those things. Hell, you void the warranty if you get a cat-back exhaust.

Buick - if this brand doesn’t change, it won’t be alive once the baby boomers are dead. Seriously, look at their styling; it’s as stylish as a beige hearing aid.

Acura - Umm, why? Hondas are boring enough, they just charge you more for them. Yah, the NSX will arrive . . . eventually?

Lexus - Uggh, their cars are so ugly they make kids cry

Mercury - Wait, do they still make cars?

Saab - :.(

Chrysler - You were once one of the greatest brands in the world, now you make a Dodge Charger and a rental car.

Ferrari + Lamborghini - They’re appliances that work wonderfully, but I want a damn gated shifter and some exhilaration

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > ly2v8-Brian 07/16/2015 at 14:57

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I forgot about mentioning them

Snuze: Needs another Swede > E92M3 07/16/2015 at 15:16

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I would tend to agree with you, but all he wanted was cheap and reliable, and that’s what he got. It’s not that Scion are bad cars, per se, they are just another flavor of Toyota beige. Which is sad because I think there was a lot of potential there.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 07/16/2015 at 15:21

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Good point on the Mustang, didn’t really consider that.

I’m not sure if I agree or disagree with your second point about Toyota needing Scion. Because I think you could also say the same thing about Lexus, they don’t need a luxury brand, they just need more luxurious cars. I think it kind of makes sense to stratify your brands (similar to how FoMoCo had Ford -> Mercury -> Lincoln). The problem with Scion is Toyota has just turned it into More Toyota. There’s just not enough there to differentiate it from the main brand.

Vicente Esteve > Brian, The Life of 07/16/2015 at 15:34

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Also, for not making a Hellcat 300. That would be the creme de la creme.

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 16:23

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My university is in Newark, it’s rusty.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Snuze: Needs another Swede 07/16/2015 at 16:54

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Lexus makes far more sense than Scion if only because with Lexus, it’s just just about a premium car, it’s also about having a premium dealership/purchasing/servicing experience.

E92M3 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 07/16/2015 at 17:03

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Sadly beige sells better than fun. The Toybarus prove that. He could of got a Civic Si, or something like a Mazda 3 and at least had something somewhat fun.

I can’t understand why so many people commit to beige autos. That’s like saying “I know Hawaii is beautiful and has lots of activities, but I think we’ll save some money and go to Hays, Kansas for vacation instead”.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 07/16/2015 at 17:17

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Sad fact of the matter is that when you are young, you can’t afford to buy a new car anyway, in most cases. That’s why you see all the middle aged/old guys in the cool cars, they couldn’t afford them when they were young!

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Margin Of Error 07/16/2015 at 17:20

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Don’t insult Heineken like that!

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > dogisbadob 07/16/2015 at 17:21

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I’ve had my 500 since new and no problems at all. Other than the L, what problems are you talking about?

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Mercedes Streeter 07/16/2015 at 17:21

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Says the person who drives a Smart Car....

Mercedes Streeter > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. 07/16/2015 at 17:30

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:(

That wasn’t a stab at Fiat the brand (I like Fiat, especially the 500), I just think it’s silly for FCA to only have variants of the 500 here. Why not the Panda? I’d love to see more than just the 500 here. I mean shoot, the Punto actually sells better than the 500.

Don’t worry, I think smart USA is equally as silly. People beg for the forfour, so they decide not to bring it over. Come on now...

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Mercedes Streeter 07/16/2015 at 17:47

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Fair enough. I think the Jeep renegade is pretty much just a Panda in an American suit though, from what I’ve heard. Also, does smart still make the roadster? i would love to see those things buzzing around here.

Mercedes Streeter > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. 07/16/2015 at 17:56

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I bet FCA would roll in even more cash if they took the dive and brought in more models. Oooooh, I also forgot that the RAM ProMaster vans are also Fiats. And I doubt the Hellcats would exist without the Fiat affiliation. But Sergio seems determined to expand by...buying other brands?

Nah, smart only makes the fortwo and the forfour. They’re cautious with expanding smart. The last time Mercedes tried dumping two additional models on the market, it nearly killed the brand. We will only see the former of the new generation. At least we’re getting the manuals!!

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Mercedes Streeter 07/16/2015 at 18:09

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The Promaster is a Fiat? I thought they were Mercedes? I’ve seen a Smart ForFour zipping around here with Mexican plates before. Not sure how it would fit into the grand scheme of the carscape here.

Funktheduck > JR1 07/16/2015 at 18:12

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I hate it in pictures. Looks much better in person

Mercedes Streeter > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. 07/16/2015 at 18:28

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Ooooh was it an older forfour or one of the new ones? The new one is about sized like a Chevy Spark, The Ram ProMaster vans are Fiat Ducatos. Dodge used to sell the Sprinter, which is a Mercedes.

At some point, MBUSA decided they they wanted to be the vendor for their own vans, so they stopped distributing them to Dodge and Freightliner.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Mercedes Streeter 07/16/2015 at 18:31

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Gotcha. Sorry, I couldn’t tell you if it was new or old. I just thought it was some kind of VW I wasn’t familiar with when I saw it in my rearview mirror.

jkm7680 > brian1321 07/16/2015 at 19:54

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Toyota. Why you say?

Their entire lineup besides their trucks are boring and uninteresting.

TheOnelectronic > For Sweden 07/16/2015 at 21:49

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Some places have road salt. Some have ocean spray. New Jersey has the sheer corrosive force of failure and despair.

pip bip - choose Corrour > brian1321 07/17/2015 at 05:23

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Mercedes-benz/Audi/BMW

way too much tech in them all.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 07/17/2015 at 13:26

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True, but I would argue that part of the premise of Scion was also the dealer experience - they promised no haggle, no hassle, low pricing, and special financing options for people with little to no credit. That and the dealer customization options, which never seemed to have caught on.

But overall I agree with you, this is just further strengthening my argument that I have given up on Scion and Toyota probably should too - Scion was a great idea, but it’s now just more Toyota. If you want a new entry level car, there’s essentially no difference in going to Scion dealer to buy whatever they have, or going to a Toyota dealer to buy a Corolla or something.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. 07/17/2015 at 13:29

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Well a lot of young people can’t but their parents can. So I think it doesn’t hurt to try to appeal to that not-insignificant demographic of kids whose mommies and daddies buy them new cars for their sweet 16, or whatever.

I think you may be on to something though - my thought is that if mommy and daddy are buying it, they usually get some say in the purchase. And if they can afford to just go buy junior a new car, they can probably afford something more than a Scion. And when you put those 2 things together, it means mom and/or dad is probably going to relive their glory days by buying their kid a Mustang or Camaro or something.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > E92M3 07/17/2015 at 13:40

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I think there’s a lot of truth to the fact that beige sells better than fun. But what sells even better is beige disguised as fun (i.e. that awful “grounded to the ground” Toyota commercial... “it’s got stuff guys like... the sleek body... rims” etc. etc.)

I think people commit to beige autos because they just don’t care. Or they are duped into buy beige (above argument) by pretending (i.e. convincing themselves) it’s fun. And if we’re going to be 100% honest with ourselves here, this is a study in need vs. want. Nobody “needs” a sports car (I’m excluding the arguments of driving enjoyment, etc. for a moment) because frankly something like a 40HP air cooled VW beetle will get us from A to B while being cheap to fuel, cheap to maintain, etc. Most people, then, look at the dollars they have to spend on a car and try to figure out what best suits their needs for the least amount of money. I think most people, these days, view driving as a chore, so they buy whatever appliance best suits their needs. Maybe they are socking away the money they save on the car purchase to go to Hawaii.

As for my dad’s friend, that’s a very specific example. As I mentioned, he’d gone through bankruptcy previously, and had a string of shitty, unreliable cars before. He was trying to get back on his feet and rebuild his credit, and wanted a new, reliable car and Scion not only fit the bill in terms of car, but helped him with financing so he could rebuild his credit. When he got the xB, Scion had only been around a year or two. When he traded it in for a tC, the FR-S wasn’t out yet. Sadly he passed away a couple years ago, but I have no doubt he probably would have moved up to an FR-S next. My point was just a personal example to illustrate that Scion ended up picking up a very different market than the one they set out to serve.