Oppo, Riddle Me This

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 04/26/2015 at 15:03 • Filed to: Question

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I need a list of cars that meet the criteria that I will list below. EDIT: Modified the list to open some more potential candidates.

1985-2010

Manual or paddle shift gearbox

RWD or AWD

4 seats

2-4 doors

Has similar power figures or power/weight ratio of a Focus ST STOCK

ISN’T a hatch or wagon

Weighs under 4000lbs

5-8 cylinders

Can be modded easily to some degree

Can be worked on by one’s self

Has a dipstick

Costs no more than $15k(or close?)

Looks cool

Reliability is subjective

Show me what ya got!

djmt1 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:07

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B5 Audi S4

Nibby > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:08

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ford tempo

E. Julius > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:09

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Is the “more power” a strict requirement? What if it’s down on power but just as quick due to a better power/weight ratio?

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:12

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Not sure on the work on it yourself part, but this is just about the only thing I can think of that would fit the performance requirements. Mazdaspeed 6.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:12

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Any car can be worked on by one’s self.

jkm7680 > djmt1 04/26/2015 at 15:13

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x2

traderQAMobileTestAutomationMobileBoostOn > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:13

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It’s a hatchback, but in the same way that an F-Type is a hatchback.

I nominate the 1998-2002 LS1 Camaro.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:16

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AthomSfere > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:23

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E36 or E46 BMW M3.

The E46 will be hard to find under $10k, but can be done.

Tareim - V8 powered > traderQAMobileTestAutomationMobileBoostOn 04/26/2015 at 15:24

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4 seats?

AM > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 04/26/2015 at 15:24

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Not for long :(

AthomSfere > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 04/26/2015 at 15:25

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Definitely down on the power requirement. Also slightly uglier than it’s twin from Mitsubishi.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > AM 04/26/2015 at 15:27

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Oh shut up

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:33

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XJ-S with the I6

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Nibby 04/26/2015 at 15:44

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What even is this tempo?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > E. Julius 04/26/2015 at 15:45

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I’m perfectly fine with better power/weight ratio. What have you got in mind?

Nibby > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:45

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Own one and you will understand.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 04/26/2015 at 15:45

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I know nothing about this car. But it is a 4-cylinder, so...

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 04/26/2015 at 15:46

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What is that?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > djmt1 04/26/2015 at 15:47

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Why you say dis?

E. Julius > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:51

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I don’t know. Kind of a tall order so I was seeing if I could get the requirements loosened up a bit haha. If I think of anything I’ll let you know.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > E. Julius 04/26/2015 at 15:53

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I could knock a few off the list if it helps.

djmt1 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 15:58

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97-02

Manual

AWD

4 seats

4 doors

265 HP stock

5.6 to 60

Saloon

3,300lbs

Twin Turbo V6

Flash to 400HP for less than £500.

You know your shit when it comes to German cars.

Probably

Costs less than £5000 in UK no idea for the States.

I think it looks cools and I have two degrees in cool which are totes legit.

From the era when Audi’s didn’t have to be premium and thus not overcomplicated.

So what do I win?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > djmt1 04/26/2015 at 16:01

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Hmmm, your answer is the only one that kinda hits all the right boxes so far. It’s damn good. I’m putting it on my “final choice(s)” list.

Would you like an internet cookie?

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > AthomSfere 04/26/2015 at 16:02

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300hp and 330tq to the wheels is not down. And its rarer and better looking that the Mitsubishi

Stock GSX

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:03

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98 Eagle Talon TSI AWD

Spark > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:03

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Looks sorta like a Talon...? o.O

djmt1 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:03

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This could be you.

MysticStick > Tareim - V8 powered 04/26/2015 at 16:05

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Yep. Back seats are small tho.

MysticStick > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:09

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This one. SN95 Mustang all day long. Love those Cobra wheels..

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > MysticStick 04/26/2015 at 16:11

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But does it fit all(most of) the requirements?

Baeromez > traderQAMobileTestAutomationMobileBoostOn 04/26/2015 at 16:20

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Came to post this.

AthomSfere > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 04/26/2015 at 16:23

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300/330? Where are you getting those numbers? I could be wrong but pretty sure the TSI and GSX topped out at ~210hp. (stock)

And yes the Talon is more rare, but the GSX and TSI in general are pretty rare.

Finally, and subjective perhaps:

I have long held that the 2nd gen Eclipse is one of the best looking cars, period. But the Talon looks about 90% as good and looks so much cheaper, IMO. Something about it just looks much less well done.

AthomSfere > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:27

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Like this one?

Stock, the last gen Si had almost the same Hp figures as the 5.0 Fox bodies :p

AthomSfere > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:29

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Also FWD, probably the real deal breaker. HP/ TQ figures put it on par with most V6/ V8 that are NA and older than say 2004.

MysticStick > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:30

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I am probably biased, but it seems like the specs of perhaps a later GT and the picture match perfectly. Course, you could maybe even get into an 03-04 Cobra (depending on the price)... And it would come with those wheels.

AthomSfere > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:32

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How does 215-225 hp (depending on year) sound for a GT (V8 5.0 trim)?

I’d strike these, personally. Maybe if you found a cheap Cobra...

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > AthomSfere 04/26/2015 at 16:35

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Yeah, I’m never going back to FWD again.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > AthomSfere 04/26/2015 at 16:35

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How’s the power/weight ratio?

SlickMcRick > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:39

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If he’s suggesting a Mazdaspeed6 then it’s actually AWD like you requested. 274Hp and 280lb-ft. Even though it’s a 4 cylinder makes decent power.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > MysticStick 04/26/2015 at 16:40

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I don’t know about the later ones though. The 4.6L V8 seems to get no love compared to the old 5.0L, not sure if that’s good or bad.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > AthomSfere 04/26/2015 at 16:41

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Mustang dyno for mine. For his budget he could get way more out of it. Stock bottom ends can hold 400hp.

IMO Talons have better bumpers and spoiler. Also two tone

AthomSfere > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:42

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~3400 lbs. So not great but not horrible.

Looked at early Infiniti Gs?

No Prius Needed > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:44

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And done.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:45

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Trans Am, Camaro, Mustang, Mark V GLI, Civic Si, B15 SE-R, 300ZX 2+2, E39 540i, C230 Coupe, Volvo S60R, Volvo S60 T5, Volvo S40 T5, Altima SE-R, Maxima, G35, E36, E46, SRT4, Cobalt SS, Lancer Ralliart, WRX, Honda Accord V6 Coupe, Acura TL, Acura TSX, etc.

AthomSfere > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 04/26/2015 at 16:46

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I love two tone! I just don’t think it worked out for this car.

Your TSI dyno’d at 300hp, what mods? But if those goals come with mods... It really does open up all sorts of cars that would be close without mods to his goals...

brjklein > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 16:47

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Speed6 is AWD. Also, it has a 270hp/280tq turbo-4. The only arbitrary rules it breaks of yours are as follows:

13.0000 lbs/hp vs. 12.78 lbs/hp

four cylinders versus five. Oh, by the way, a 2008 BMW 328i has a six, but way less power-to-weight due to 30 less horsepower.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > AthomSfere 04/26/2015 at 16:48

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Also i see too many riced Eclipse and not many talons.

I have a 16g turbo, slightly bigger injectors, front mount intercooler, ARP head studs, AEM stand alone ECU, speed density instead of MAF, ACT clutch. Runs on 93 octane and 28psi max boost.

AthomSfere > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 04/26/2015 at 16:56

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That’s nice build!

I see both of the cars riced on probably 80% of what I see of either of them, there are a lot more Eclipses out there for sure though. As long as you have what you like though, that’s the ultimate goal!

Your boy, BJR > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 17:01

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The answer is always.....

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Your boy, BJR 04/26/2015 at 17:05

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How’d you know I like dat C5?

samssun > AthomSfere 04/26/2015 at 17:13

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MS6 is AWD. Sadly it didn’t get a FI 6 cylinder (imagine the Ecoboost 2.7 in the current 6), and the MS3 didn’t get AWD. Mazda was so close to something.

Sweet Trav > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 17:22

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The Car you want is a 2002 Camaro SS.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > AthomSfere 04/26/2015 at 17:23

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Yea mine is just basic stuff. didnt want to go too overboard

AthomSfere > samssun 04/26/2015 at 17:25

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Interesting, I guess I missed that they went AWD... Where did they borrow that setup from? Was it actually unique to the MS6?

boxrocket > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 17:49

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Technically it's AWD, much like the similar but more powerful Volvo S60R.

Your boy, BJR > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 18:03

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Because nobody can say no to a vette

Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage > Your boy, BJR 04/26/2015 at 18:03

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No 4 seats, brah. Otherwise, C5 is almost always the answer.

Your boy, BJR > Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage 04/26/2015 at 18:04

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Doesn't matter had Vette

Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 18:08

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Agreed with El_Brian and Travis, '98-'02 F-Body is the perfect answer here (if the hatch is forgivable).

If he wants to go import, though, a '90-'96 300ZX would also be a great solution (again, if the hatch could be forgiven).

samssun > AthomSfere 04/26/2015 at 18:11

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I think it was Mazda’s own. Nothing fancy, a FWD-style power takeoff with no center diff, but computer controlled clutches to send power rearward.

wiffleballtony > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 04/26/2015 at 18:14

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Not that subjective

YellowGoat > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 18:41

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GTO, 1st gen CTS-V, E39 540i

blown032k > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/26/2015 at 18:49

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Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4/Dodge Stealth twin turbo

300zx twin turbo

350z/370z

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 01:40

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It should clear your 4000lb requirement easy enough, and I’m pretty sure it has a much better power/weight than a stock FoST. And easy to find a good example within your price range.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 10:47

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E39 M5s have dropped to this price range, haven’t they? Might be just a hair over your weight req. though.

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 11:11

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My car fits in to this perfectly! So there's that.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/27/2015 at 11:23

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I’m not sure. For weight, hell yeah they’re way out of my requirements. I can’t figure out a single car I’d be contempt with; mind you, I’ve never held onto a car for 2 years at this point, and I’ve had 3, two of which are still here. Here are some ideas I’d like to run by you if you don’t mind.

SN95 Stang

Fox Body Stang

E9x 328i

E46 something but probably not M3

E36 M3

300zx

I don’t have many options for what I’d like to find in a car.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 04/27/2015 at 11:23

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Mach 1s are difficult to find here though. Not sure if that applies elsewhere..

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 11:37

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Curb weight (with one person, ready for operation, full tank of fuel, options not included):

M5 = 4024 lbs

BMW uses 75 Kg (165 lbs) as driver weight. Since most car companies specify the curb weight without driver you can subtract that weight from the above amounts to get a truer comparison to other automobiles.

M5 = 3859 lbs

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 11:41

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I’m personally not a fan of Mustangs, so I can’t really comment.

For 3-series, a well-kept E46 330i ZCP would be a great option for you, I think.

E36 M3s can be had at a great price right now; just make sure to get into one that needs nothing done (see Logansteno). The four-doors are much more rare than the two-doors.

I’ve always loved the design of the 300ZX; if you can find a well-maintained, lightly modified one, I think you’d be very happy.

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 12:01

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Depends. Lately I've been seeing more abused ones unfortunately. But there's still plenty of good ones around.

Here they're hit or miss. Last I looked there weren't many left. Most didn't look great either.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 12:04

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K-Roll-PorscheTamer > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 04/27/2015 at 12:07

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Just like 944s, I suspect the nicer ones will command a premium over abused ones.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/27/2015 at 12:18

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Now for the most difficult part: How well do you think they compare to my ST?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 12:24

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Your ST is probably faster than all of them (except the E39 M5). I honestly love the ST’s styling, usability and value proposition. If it had been out three years ago when I was on the hunt, I might have ended up in one myself. I’ll probably end up test-driving an RS when they drop, just to see how good a car it is.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/27/2015 at 12:28

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The thing is, I’m looking to get out of the ST this year and into something cheaper that doesn’t hinder on performance. I want something manual and RWD that can compare or come close to the ST in stock form or without extreme modification.

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 14:03

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People will overprice these cars, V6's, GT's and Cobra's included. Mine was 10,500 for just around 100K miles. It had some flaws which are typical for any 100K car(Most which are now fixed!) but nothing substantially wrong. I just got a great deal on mine. The really abused ones go for 8-9K and aren't even worth that. The really clean ones with virtually no miles can get up to 17K-20K easy. But there is that happy medium with Mach's that have a good amount of miles on them. Now finding a clean example, stock and well kept is another challenge.

Prices on Mach's can be really confusing at times. The no mile ones have increased in price while higher mileage ones have dropped a little bit.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 14:06

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An E36 M3 will be close, if not faster than your car. From what I’ve read, the driving dynamics of this car are seriously fantastic, despite the less-than-special engine it came with in the U.S. Because they’re the least-loved of M3s, they can be had for ridiculously low prices (maybe even half your $15k budget). I’m not sure of reliability, so that’d be something you’d want to read up on extensively.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 04/27/2015 at 14:53

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How do you feel about Fox 5.0s? Especially against ‘94-95 5.0s?

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 15:29

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I love the Fox 5.0's! I wanted one so bad but being my daily driver I couldn't get something that needed work like I wanted. I originally wanted an 86 and hoped to fine one that wasn't to abused and needed work so I could learn more. But with their prices and my time it just wouldn't work out. But the 5.0's are great engines. Lots of aftermarket support as well. The 94-95's are good to. If you have any more questions let me know. I have to go to work now so I can't say more!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 04/27/2015 at 15:42

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Oh you know I have all the questions in the world for you to answer right now! :p

If I go Mustang(and inevitably, it seems the only logical route), I need to know everything I can about Fox Bodies and ‘94-95 GTs. I don’t know which one will be better or worse or a great all-round car for me. I like both, want both, but can only have one now.

I need one that can be built to take on the likes of modern cars like the one I’ll be replacing. It needs to be quick(fast 0-60 in under 5 seconds), it needs to be able to daily but I’m not afraid to get my hands dirty to work on it. It needs to be able to handle as best as possible, and it must survive Michigan all year round.

I need to know the pros and cons of these two bodystyles and which one is best for what. Which one will be the best long-term and so on.

And all of this on a COLLEGE BUDGET.

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/27/2015 at 22:52

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Haha good luck! Well, I can answer a lot on the SN95 front. First, on one of those it might take a little bit to get to a 0-60 under 5 seconds. You can make decent power from these engines but not a lot without going to boost. I wouldn't put a super or turbocharger on higher mileage, used Mustang though. And you might not need to stick with the 5.0, you can probably aim for an earlier 4.6. But a 5.0 might have more aftermarket support then an earlier 4.6.

Now a lot of the parts from the Fox's and SN95's are interchangeable (A few with work needed). But I'll speak more on the SN95's first because I know them better. Making it handle better might not be to big of a challenge. Personally, I feel my car handles pretty good for what it is. Some even prefer a well sorted LRA compared to a swapped IRS. You can source suspension parts from higher end cars like the Mach or Cobra's and save a lot of money. If I were going to upgrade my suspension I would look at sway bars, springs, lower control arms, shocks and struts from Steeda or Maximum Motorsports.

To be honest, for you I think the SN95's would be a better option. There isn't a huge demand for them, they are generally cheaper, better interior and they're newer so hopefully they won't have as many issues. Plus it shouldn't be a nightmare finding an SN95, like it is for a Fox.

If you get snow tires for it there might be a slight chance you can drive it in the winter. My Mach handled the ice (Yes, I had to drive on ice when it snowed during school, in Texas) pretty well with my Pilot Sport A/S 3's. You just have to be careful. If I missed anything or you have more questions let me know.

BLCKSTRM > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/28/2015 at 01:39

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I’ve got the E36 M3 Dave is talking about.

It’s pretty practical. Bike rack attaches easily, has surprisingly decent leg room in the back seat, and that “less than special” engine is as much blessing as curse when it comes to maintenance.

There is both an incredible community and a ridiculous aftermarket. They are incredibly easy to work on. I mean, it’s almost as if the Germans realized they wouldn’t last forever and made them so humans with normal proportions and single-jointed limbs could fix them.

It is a total sleeper for most people. I get dumbfounded looks when I tell most people I take it to the track.

And that aftermarket? You can get a decent 40 hp bump for not much more than $1,000. That puts you in original Euro M3 territory of 280hp (though still off from the Euro Evo M3 at 321hp). Another grand will get you close to 300hp with cams. And the rest of the car responds well to proper modifications also. Coilovers, bigger sway bars, big brake kits, etc - and still come in relatively inexpensively.

If you read Logansteno’s story tonight you might be scared off. And rightly so - you’ll be tempted like him to pay less. Or worse yet, fix it with cheap AutoZone parts.

Someone on his thread commented tonight that a good E36 M3 costs $10k. That’s about what I’ve spent on mine (between purchase price, refreshing everything, and some easy upgrades). For $10k you should have an intake and chip at least and be making 255-260hp, as well as a refreshed suspension and updated cooling system, rich are the main things that get neglected and need to be refreshed.

So, the cars weigh about the same and are making very similar power, but the M3 has better weight distribution and possibly better manners/handling still despite its age. On equal tires - and things like driver skill being equal - you’d be hard pressed to make a case for the Focus ST being a faster car over a $10k E36 M3.

With one exception mine has been incredibly reliable. Head gaskets are not common, but are surprisingly straight-forward and affordable if you’ll do some homework and spend the weekend doing it.

Other than that, the odd vacuum leak from old tubing and coils are the only things that have affected the car’s driveability. Well, I also broke the diff, but that wasn’t really the car’s fault.

For perspective, the diff was around $300, a new tranny is less than $500, and engines can be had for less than $1,000. I did my head gasket (including new water pump and all the gaskets - everything) for around $650. For comparison, I just saw a great deal on an E46 M3 engine for $3,500.

It IS a little older car, and stuff does wear out. But I assume you’d budget for that if you’re considering it.

For something RWD with rear seats - and even 4 doors - it’s a pretty hard package to beat.

BLCKSTRM > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/28/2015 at 01:39

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Wow - you got me on my soapbox!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BLCKSTRM 04/28/2015 at 10:14

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Beautiful car! 4-door M3s FTW.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > BLCKSTRM 04/28/2015 at 11:43

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You’ve got yourself a lovely-looking E36 sir. So far, it’s between E36s and SN95 Mustangs, the Mustang would be completely new for me, as European cars are kinda my schtick. If I couldn’t find an M3, how would a 328i fair with mods? Also, because I love coupes, how easy/hard would it be to find a manual one?

The car sounds like exactly how I feel about my 944: reliable, simple to work on aside from some minor things, vacuum leaks ect. It’s checking all the right boxes right now.

BLCKSTRM > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/28/2015 at 13:25

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The ratio of manuals is always increasing. Very few people replace a bad auto with another auto, and no one pro-actively swaps in an auto.

The delta in price between a 328 and an M3 is going to be pretty minor at this point, and the 328 will need all the same reconditioning. Personally, I wouldn’t waste the time - I’d just be more patient until you find an M3 you like.

I don’t think coupes are the hard ones to find - the sedans are the scarce ones. Look on bimmerforums and m3forums in addition to your normal autotrader and such, and you should be able to find something without looking too long.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > BLCKSTRM 04/28/2015 at 13:32

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Hows the supply of E36 M3s nowadays? Will it be hard to find one? Values, how are they?

Also, the engine, I’m assuming being German, it is an interference design? Is it a belt or chain, and does it need constant service? My 944 needs a new timing belt every 30k miles.

BLCKSTRM > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/28/2015 at 16:51

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It’s interference, but it’s a chain. The V8 in 540s can have trouble when the plastic chain guides eventually break, but that’s just a V8 problem - the E36 doesn’t have any trouble there.

I’m a little fuzzier on pricing and availability. I really haven’t looked very recently.

I see them for sale often enough I think you should be able to find what you want without TOO much trouble. As far as price, we’re definitely into the “upkeep is more important than mileage” zone. I wouldn’t buy one under $5k, and you can plan on spending the other $5k for that magic $10k figure. You may be willing to spend over $10k purchase price for a well maintained AND relatively low mileage car (like under 80k miles). Much past $12k and it’s hard to justify against an E46 M3, which should start with some high mileage, less maintained cars around $12k and good, decent mileage cars probably starting around $16k.

So, having said that, why not an E46 M3?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > BLCKSTRM 04/28/2015 at 17:07

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Interesting stuff. I didn’t consider E46s because of the SMG and VANOS issues I hear about all the time with them, and I just think the boxier E36 looks a tad bit better. There are so few E46 M3s here that aren’t convertibles or SMG or some combination. A friend of mine just upgraded from his E46 SMG to an E90 manual because he couldn’t fix his...

Although if I’m honest, I would like an automatic with paddles as a DD.

BLCKSTRM > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/28/2015 at 17:20

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I’m with you on the SMG - wouldn’t touch it, but I’m a die-hard manual guy. I don’t even mind creeping in traffic.

As for the VANOS, there are kits to refresh it that aren’t too hard to do. I did it on my car, though I’m not sure how much harder it is on an E46.

Now, the valve adjustments on an E46 M3 are definitely something that could make you nervous, but even that doesn’t look as difficult as I thought after watching several YouTube videos on it.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > BLCKSTRM 04/28/2015 at 17:29

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Yeah..So far I’ve had only one automatic car which was my first car. I don’t mind having another manual DD, I just don’t want a plain jane auto because those are absolutely dull and unexciting.

As long as there is a way to repair or refresh VANOS in a DIY format, I can handle it, I’m a sucker for “unreliable” things. They’re the most fun cars almost always!

Valve adjustments would be scary for me indeed. But I did think that doing timing belts was the worst thing and it turned out to be a rather simple job, albeit with very strict tolerances.

The E36 just seems to be the more budget friendly of the two. It should be as fun, fuel efficient, better handling, and more cheaper insurance-wise than my alternative choice, a 90s Mustang GT, at least it should look nicer on paper.