Towing with vehicles not really meant for towing

"CmndrFish" (CmndrFish) 04/24/2015 at 16:17 • Filed to: towing

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No, no, pictured above is NOT what I’m trying to do.

So, I’m a drummer in a punk band who drives a rather “normal” vehicle, a 2006 Nissan Altima, max tow rating 1000 lbs. A problem we consistently have, especially when playing out of town shows, is space inside of vehicles.

To carry all six of us and all of our stuff, we have to take 3 (!) vehicles to a show. No vans or SUV’s in this group, unfortunately, and none of us really have the desire and/or funds to replace our cars. Running 3 vehicles 100 miles away for a show is expensive. You know what else is also expensive? Renting a fullsize van. Most places in our area (Upper Midwest) that we’ve found are well over $100/day. Not to mention the added inconvenience of having to deal with that a couple times a month.

So, I had a thought...

You can get a small 4x6 enclosed trailer that weighs about 600 lbs. Musical equipment isn’t really THAT heavy, thankfully. A full drum set is around 150-200lbs. A guitar or bass half stack is about 100 lbs. There goes your biggest space consuming items. With 6 people, we’ll still have to take 2 vehicles, but that’s okay, because 3 people and their personal stuff plus tongue weight will put me right around the GVWR anyway.

So I’m sitting here, doing all the math, and the estimates are adding up. And then I stopped to think about it for a second, and I realized something.

I could probably count the times on one hand I’ve seen other small cars on the road towing anything but a tiny little garden trailer. If nobody else seems to be doing this, something is telling me that it miiiiight be a bad idea. Or do other people who think enough about towing already own a vehicle more fitting of the job?

By the numbers, it should work, but I just don’t see anybody doing it. I’m wondering if there’s anybody else out there that’s tried something similar and what their experience was like. Good? Bad? “I know the numbers say yes, but please dear god nooooo”? If I plan on doing this a lot, should I be looking at transmission and/or engine oil coolers?

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FAQ/inb4 Q&A

Why not rent? Let’s estimate it’ll be about $120/day to rent a fullsize van, and $1600 for a slightly used 4x6 enclosed trailer plus setup on vehicle. The payoff would be 14 shows, maybe like 18 if you factor in wear and tear. We’ll do that in a year, easily. We could do a minivan at about $75/day, but then we’d still have to take two vehicles.

An open/flatbed trailer would be much lighter . This is true! But music equipment is valuable. For protection from the elements and theft at night, we need an enclosed trailer.

“I bet your car in Europe would be rated to tow 9001 lbs!” That’s nice, but I want to be able to drive on a highway going at least 55 mph. I’ve read !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! already. I know better.

And no, a new, more-fitting vehicle is definitely not in the cards for me right now. My next car will have a higher tow rating, promise ;)

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 16:22

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Small trailers aren’t bad, I’ve seen a guy tow one with a Gen 1 xB, so you should be fine.

HammerheadFistpunch > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 16:23

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Does your Altima have the CVT? Don’t do it. Those CVT’s have enough trouble with the load they have already and towing with a CVT is historically a bad idea, to say nothing of the issues that the Nissan CVT already has. What do you think you can get an enclosed trailer for up there?

E. Julius > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 16:25

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Is the prospective car a manual and will you be driving up and down many hills? I remember an episode of Car Talk one time where somebody asked a pretty similar question and they said that driving a small car fully loaded at towing capacity is a great way to eat clutches like crazy, especially you’re doing hills. Just something to think about.

505Turbeaux > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 16:25

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sheeeit try and weigh just one of my 70’s SVTs. Although when I was gigging with those you actually needed that kind of power. Also you dont see many people towing with a car in the states because we are brianwashed into thinking you need a diesel dually to haul ANYTHING

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 16:25

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I’ve towed a U-Haul 5x8 long-distance behind my car, an E-class Benz. I see no problem with your plan at all.

OPPOsaurus WRX > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 16:27

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My cousin tows 3 dirt bikes with a corolla.

CmndrFish > E. Julius 04/24/2015 at 16:27

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Nah, pretty flat terrain around here. I’m in Milwaukee, and we’d be taking this to other Upper Midwestern cities. If we’re on a long enough tour where there’s mountains involved, then yeah it’s time to rent. And it’s a normal 4-speed auto.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 16:29

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As a second note, other than paranoia about exceeding towing rating, the reason you see very few small cars towing anything un-small is because most people with a small car are used to *living small* in the sense of not planning to move much stuff or many people and their stuff. If they were, much of the time they’d have gotten a larger car *just in case*. If they ever do encounter the need to move more than groceries they call a friend, and what fits in a small car plus a trailer is close to what just fits in two cars - especially if one is a van or SUV. Trailers in such a case are a very niche solution.

CmndrFish > HammerheadFistpunch 04/24/2015 at 16:29

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Nope! It’s a 4-spd auto. 2006 was the last year of the 3rd gen (2002) Altimas. This one!

HammerheadFistpunch > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 16:30

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IT will wear the car harder and faster, but as long as you respect the trailer, you should be fine.

CmndrFish > 505Turbeaux 04/24/2015 at 16:32

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Hah! Thankfully, it’d be balanced out by the fact that our guitar player uses a combo amp, a Peavey Delta Blues. ;)

nermal > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 16:33

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Getting an enclosed trailer is a great idea. Towing one with an Altima or any other car is not.

The biggest problem is aerodynamics. There are two problems - the front and the back. At the front of the trailer, you’ll have the wind hitting the parts that extend beyond the car. The biggest problem is at the back though - all of that air hits the squared-off back, and rushes to fill the space. This results in a low air pressure area.

In other words, the trailer acts like a big parachute. The bigger the trailer and faster you go, the worse it is. This will cause extra stress on your transmission.

In addition, you have emergency braking. Most smaller trailers don’t have brakes. If you jam on the brakes, the trailer pushes against the back of the car. If you are not oriented straight, it will push the car to the outside of the turn, potentially causing you to spin out. This is pronounced with a shorter wheelbase.

505Turbeaux > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 16:34

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well come on now, plug your band so we can check it out. I for one am a big fan of punk

E. Julius > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 16:37

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Well that’s all I’ve got on the topic. Best of luck!

HammerheadFistpunch > nermal 04/24/2015 at 16:43

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Good points on frontal area and low pressure zones, the later of which will play a relatively big roll in fuel economy. As for brakes, at 1000 lbs you will nee to be cautious of stopping distance, but I don’t think it will wag the dog too much. even an altimata has a good 3:1 weight ratio over 1000 lbs. Most states don’t require brakes for anything less than 1500 lbs. I towed a lot with a 1st gen4 (2800 lbs dry, 2000 lb max towing) and my forester (3300 lbs dry, 2400 lbs max towing) and occasionally near max load (once over) and as long as you keep it civil it wasn’t a big deal (other than power for the rav4)

CmndrFish > 505Turbeaux 04/24/2015 at 17:13

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https://www.facebook.com/GallantGhosts

Some demos over at https://soundcloud.com/gallantghosts

And we’ll have an EP out in a little over a month!

Pitchblende > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 17:15

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I’ve heard of people beefing up the cooling on an automatic transmission to cope with the increased loads of towing, but I think they were talking about larger weights than you, if you are not climbing hills and don’t push it you should be fine.

505Turbeaux > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 17:16

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sweet, Ill give it a listen this weekend - got you on facebook just now. I hear horns too in the first listen!

Make sure you alert me if you hit Portland Maine, the club you would likely be playing I can see right now out my window

CmndrFish > nermal 04/24/2015 at 17:18

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Good points. Some of this I was aware of (fuel economy, tranny wear, a roughly doubling of braking distance). I would guess getting a V-nosed trailer would help somewhat with the aero.

tromoly > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 17:23

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Fiat 500 pulling a Palatov D4 (image from dpcars.net)

CmndrFish > Pitchblende 04/24/2015 at 17:24

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Yeah, I was thinking of still getting a transmission cooler. Looks like they aren’t very expensive at all, and if it buys me a few more months of life on the car, then it’s worth it.

CmndrFish > 505Turbeaux 04/24/2015 at 17:33

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Thanks! It’ll be a while before we ever reach the East Coast, but I’ll keep it in mind.

CmndrFish > HammerheadFistpunch 04/24/2015 at 17:38

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Yeah. This gen Altima has a fairly long wheelbase, too. 110 inches, only a couple inches shorter than an Explorer, and only half a foot shorter than a Tahoe. It’s only a midsize car, but it’s a pretty big midsize car.

505Turbeaux > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 17:45

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Don’t worry, Genos will still be there!

shop-teacher > CmndrFish 04/24/2015 at 22:15

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The trans cooler is a good idea. I would also change the fluid and filter in it more often. I think you’ll be fine, but you may want to rent a trailer once and see how it goes before buying one.

holdenbacktears > HammerheadFistpunch 04/25/2015 at 01:15

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As long as the numbers add up it should be fine. Here in Australia we tow everything from trailers to horse floats with our family sedans, utes, wagons etc.

Most are rear drive which is obviously better for towing, but I've seen lots of fwd 4cyl cars with small trailers.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > CmndrFish 04/25/2015 at 12:36

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The tow ratings on many cars is excessively conservative these days. That’s partly because automakers know that people are idiots who will install a cheap hitch with no sway control and go 75mph while towing an unbraked trailer. Conversely, the tow ratings on full sized light duty trucks is a little on the optimistic side. But truck buyers typically are more likely to educate themselves about safe towing than car buyers.

Having said that here are some things to consider:

Often what limits towing ability is low profile tires which have low weight ratings. If your car has low profile tires, you may have to go down a rim size so you can get a tire with more sidewall and a higher load rating.

Handling stability can limit tow ratings. This can be mitigated by simply driving more slowly

Look at the speed rating on the trailer tires. Often they’re rated only for 65mph. But if you’re towing with a car not meant for towing, you can help things by not exceeding 55mph. The faster you go, the less stable things get.

Often the tow rating is based on an unbraked trailer. Having a trailer with brakes will help.

Don’t get a cheap hitch. Get a load distributing hitch with sway control

Transmissions and heat. Heat kills automatic transmissions. Towing puts more stress on the transmission and creates more heat. Thus, if you’re going to tow, get an auxiliary transmission cooler. Also change that transmission fluid more frequently... at least as often as outlined under the severe maintenance schedule in the owners manual... but doing it twice as often might be a good idea of you’re gonna tow regularly. For cars with transmissions that were known to be fragile, some people have gotten them to be durable by changing the transmission fluid with every second or 3rd oil change... or about once a year.

The traditional rule of thumb is a properly set up car can tow a trailer that is up to 85% of its weight. That means a 3000 pound car (which is what the lightest Altima weighs) should be able to tow a 2500 pound trailer

The same car in Europe will get higher tow ratings because the way they tow in Europe is different... with lower speed limits for cars that tow, which allows for less weight on the tongue (10% instead of around the 20% recommended in North America), which in turn reduces the chances of overloading the tires, suspension and other bits. The danger of having less weight on the tongue is less stability at speed... the danger of which goes up EXPONENTIALLY as speed increases. It’s perfectly safe to have less tongue weight if you keep the speed to 55mph/90km/h or less. But doing that while doing 120km/h or 75mph is very dangerous. Can lead to bad swaying, loss of control and crashing.

So as long as you educate yourself, hold the speed down, set the car/trailer up properly with the proper equipment, have brakes on the trailer, you should be able to safely tow as much as 2500 pounds with your Altima. But it’s only safe IF that trailer has brakes, you’re using a more expensive/good quality load distributing hitch with sway control, the trailer is properly loaded/balanced and you never exceed 55mph or 90km/h.

If the trailer you want to tow will be 1000 pounds or less (after you’ve loaded it up), then I’d say you can go with a cheap hitch and not need trailer brakes. But if your car is automatic, the transmission cooler will still be a good idea and keeping the speed to no more than 55mph or 90 km/h would still be highly recommended.