Please Stop Killing My Friends

"Jon Miller" (jonleemiller)
04/13/2015 at 20:01 • Filed to: racing, coaching, motorsports, disney

242

History repeats itself. Yesterday, there was a completely preventable death on a racetrack. The fatal crash was the result of a series of mistakes and bad decisions that compounded into tragedy.

Gary Terry, a stock car racer and driving instructor at the Disney Exotic Driving Experience in Orlando, Florida was pronounced dead at the scene. The Lamborghini that he was instructing in struck the end of an unprotected guardrail on the passenger side. Imagine a game of a football or basketball where the sidelines are constructed of spears and the players (amateurs, paying for the opportunity to play) are able run 100mph, forced to carry their coach. Sound insane and ridiculous? Is is, and it's exactly what happened yesterday at the Richard Petty owned Exotic Car Driving Experience.

Gary was a friend of a friend. But he was also a racer, a stock car driver, part of the close knit motorsports brotherhood. He was one of us. His death and the circumstance hits close to home because we do the same work - people pay us for our knowledge and expertise to make them better, faster drivers. I know a colleague of Gary's. He put me in touch with their company manager in 2010 because they were looking for qualified instructors. After a brief phone interview, I realized that they were looking for anyone with a pulse to sit shotgun and babysit untrained strangers, in supercars, on a racetrack. The pay offered was only slightly above minimum wage, with no benefits or healthcare. It was insulting and a huge red flag.

The Florida Highway Patrol is investigating and will piece together the second-by-second details of the crash. What caused the crash is almost irrelevant - mistakes happen, especially by inexperienced drivers in powerful cars. From reports I've read, the driver is fully cooperating and for all we know, there was a mechanical failure that caused the loss of control. What is clear, from the facts that have been released is that this was a preventable, *predictable* death. The biggest issue at play is track safety conditions that were tolerated (or likely worse, ignored) by management and staff. It's difficult to tell for sure, but I can't find any evidence or photo that clearly shows any SAFER barriers installed on the outer wall of the track. Not a good sign, but also not directly in play.

This is what makes me so angry: They were driving the track in the opposite direction (clockwise) that it was designed to be driven. The car hit a guardrail that was placed to protect workers on an access road. A safety barrier designed to deflect a spinning race car coming in a counter-clockwise direction became a weapon when hit from the other direction. This is "racing 101": Don't ever drive counter-course because the racetrack wasn't designed to work that way. Some racetracks *are* designed to work that way, however this one was not.

The green arrow shows the direction that the track was designed to run. The orange is the direction that they were driving when the fatal crash occurred. The Google Earth satellite even took a picture right when a car (Audi R8?) was passing the point where they lost control. You don't need to be a brain surgeon to see that this is a potential trouble

The previous corner is also home to an unprotected guardrail when traveling clockwise.

On the highway, when your exit peels off into another direction, a triangular point is created a where the two roads diverge. That area is called the gore. I wish I was making that up. When there is a solid object, like a guardrail, at the gore point, the DOT will plop a plastic barrier filled with sand in-front of it. The device is called a Fitch Barrier, for it's inventor, race car driver John Fitch. It costs about $300 and has been credited with saving over 17,000 lives since it was invented in the 1960s. Even cheaper than $300, a few stacks of used tires. Better than nothing, nearly free, but never considered. Are you mad yet?

Driving cars fast is incredibly fun and challenging. Driving FAST cars fast, on a racetrack is the stuff that dreams are made of. This is not a minor oversight or a simple mistake. It's negligence. The operators of this business have an obligation to their staff and customers to do more than the bare minimum to protect their well being.

As coaches, instructors, mentors and professionals, we have an obligation to be part of the solution. We have to hold our own safety in higher regard. We have to be proactive and we have to speak up when what's "normal" doesn't look right.

I don't coach from the right seat anymore. I'm working on a post about that. Too many close calls over the years, and one client who did crash with me in the car (by doing the opposite of what I was telling him) was enough for me to finally listen to the nagging voice in my head. The loss of Sean Edwards in a right-seat accident was a huge blow, not long after I made that decision for myself. Many friends and colleagues have adopted the same policy and that has only solidified my decision.

The Walt Disney World Speedway is closing this summer, forever. It will be demolished and turned into a parking lot. Normally I'm sad to hear about a track closing, but I'm happy to see this one go. I only wish it had gone sooner. Rest in peace, Gary.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

About !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (not the Jonny Lee Miller who was married to Angelina Jolie): Jon is a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! who has competed in the Continental Tire SportsCar Challenge since 2006. He collects Hot Wheels and action figures and hopes to race at LeMans or appear as an extra in the new JJ Abrams Star Wars films. A University of Central Florida graduate, he now lives in California with his wife, Denise and Bob Barker, their adopted pet Boxer.

DISCUSSION (100)

Brian, The Life of > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 20:03

182

This needs to go to the front page right now.

HammerheadFistpunch > Brian, The Life of
04/13/2015 at 20:07

I have no doubt it will.

For Sweden > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 20:08

Kinja'd!!!

If tracks didn't learn from Mark Martin's crash at Michigan, I have zero hope they will learn from this incident.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 20:12

131

Deaths are a tragedy. Preventable deaths are frustrating. Easily preventable deaths are enraging.

Jon Miller > For Sweden
04/13/2015 at 20:20

That one gives me nightmares. The other one is Jimmy Johnson losing his brakes at WGI in turn 1 and hitting the wall, head-on at what looks like 200mph.

Styrofoam, a single layer of tires and Armco that thankfully had some give to it. I'm still not sure how he walked away from that one.

TheHondaBro > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 20:22

I'm at a loss for words.

I mean, it doesn't take a grandmaster chess player to realize the barrier can still kill. I'm sorry for your loss. Hopefully the motorsports community will finally learn from this.

For Sweden > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 20:28

Once upon a time, I wrote a piece on my opinions concerning racing safety culture. From my outsider's perspective as someone working in aviation safety, racing as a long ways to go.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 20:33

Wow. I kept looking at that track trying to figure out how it for pointed at that guard rail. Reversing the track makes sense. When do we find out they were reversing for reasons as stupid at evenly wearing the tires?

That track for have 1980s levels of safety and it needs to be upgraded or closed

Flavien Vidal > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 20:37

To me, it's rather simple... People shouldn't be given the opportunity to drive those cars ON A RACETRACK without any kind of experience. Give them the cars to go drive around on the freeway or elsewhere, why not, but not on a racetrack.

As I mentioned in another comment, I have experienced what you described first hand, while working at a gokart racetrack, being on the track, jumping over people who had no freaking idea what they were doing, that didn't know they had to let their foot off the gas when told to or people that simply didn't give a shit because they paid and they are entitled to do whatever the fuck they want!

Between the person that is scared to death and can't go over 20mph, the one that drives with one foot on the brakes, the other on the gas, melting the clutch and brakes, the ones that enters the pitlane at full speed while another course worker is filling up the kart, the guy that finishes THROUGH A FREAKING WALL, through 2 layers of tires, still at full throttle on impact, the girl that goes through 2 layers of tires (one layers is made of 4 tires one over another, 5 tires wide!) and goes under a gokart trailer, with the kart actually starting to catch fire on impact, almost killing herself on impact (see, Jules Bianchi kind of crash, on a kart) and starting to burn after... Not to mention the countless amount of times, track workers get hit by karts, with broken bones and so on...

Those people shouldn't be able to drive 500hp+ on racetrack without proper training. I personnally think they shouldn't be able to drive at all in the first place, let alone this kind of car at this kind of place...

McMike > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 20:38

I noticed that this morning when more images were coming in from the scene.

http://jalopnik.com/omg-were-they-…

Sorry for your loss, Jon. This should have been a trip to the hospital, and a very dented Lambo. That's all.

TopSirloin > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 20:48

This ought to result in a tort of negligence suit.. The duty these companies have to protect their instructors and customers should be immense. The potential for harm and the frequency that the instructors are exposed to that potential harm should require these companies to have safety equiptment and protocol that goes above and beyond. This is careless and shows blatant disregard for the wellbeing of their employees and customers and punishment for this should be huge. Hopefully this inspires the powers that be to take a much closer look at these companies providing this form of entertainment and the level of safety provided.

R.I.P Gary.

DipodomysDeserti > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username
04/13/2015 at 20:52

Especially when you think about how that beautiful little girl has to grow up without her daddy. Fighting back tears reading about this one.

DMariotti > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 21:06

Total shame, hope the fund helps his family in some small way.

facw > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
04/13/2015 at 21:08

I've seen several people say that they are planning on closing it this summer to make way for additional Magic Kingdom parking. Impending closure might cause them to care less about updating track safety features here, though a stack of old tires is not a major expense.

green_man_group > For Sweden
04/13/2015 at 21:13

Agreed. I was actually there at Michigan the day this happened. I was so afraid that a crew member was killed when I saw him hit that wall.

Then I saw it on YouTube when I got home. That was perhaps even more frightening than seeing the car barrel down pit road like it did.

His car was sliced open like a can opener. This video still makes me cringe every time I see it.

JayHova > For Sweden
04/13/2015 at 21:23

I don't want to sound cynical, but they didn't learn from Mark Martin's crash, because he walked away.

We can only hope that this tragical incident gets maximum media coverage and causes a lawsuit or two...to force organizers to learn.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > facw
04/13/2015 at 21:29

Fitch barrels are effing cheap!

Shane Morris > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 21:34

We all say things like, "We should hold someone responsible...", but forget the important part: His daughter can't get her father back. Responsibility after the fact doesn't change her world.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 21:36

Good grief man what kind of place was this???

Jon Miller > Shane Morris
04/13/2015 at 21:36

Nobody is forgetting that very sad, but unchangeable fact. What we can change is how we operate these kind of events and evaluate the level of safety or justifiable risk associated with participating in this kind of activity. This was gross negligence and that is what makes this even more of a tragedy.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > For Sweden
04/13/2015 at 21:37

Jesus, that looks like it won't end well..

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > green_man_group
04/13/2015 at 21:39

I remember watching that live. That was crazy.

suss6052 > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 21:40

Kinja'd!!!

The track is meant to be driven clockwise for the sports cars and counter clockwise for the stock cars according to everyone who's ever been there, so that means the track was set up wrong for the conditions, not the driver going the wrong way. If they went counterclockwise they would have hit another car coming right at them.

Wave Motion Gun > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 21:41

I have a lot of track time in the right (wrong?) seat. Knowing that he went out due to obvious and easily remedied safety issues really pisses me off. What's going to piss me off even more is the fact that Disney's negligence here will likely make it that much harder for legitimate track day organizations to operate because they will pour so much money into defending their blatant disregard for human life that insurers will look at the business case for track events and decide it isn't worth it.

signintoburnerlol > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 21:42

Not to be blunt, but...when we enter the racetrack. Not an Autocross, I'm talking about a legit racetrack with out street cars, our racecars and so forth. We in part have to accept that we might die. I say this to anyone who is interested in track days, you could possibly get killed. Even if you have a full roll cage, 6 point harness and all the great safety equipment. Every time i enter my car and i go off the line or onto the track i had to focus 100%. Instructors have to tell whether this person is focusing the best he/she can, if not then he/she should be off the track with more classroom time or he/she isn't good enough for the track just yet or ever.

I'm not arguing about driving 10/10's at the track or going all out, I'm arguing that shit can happen and you can die. If your afraid, then stay with the cones until you're ready.

Dave > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 21:43

A similar accident happened at the INDYCAR race at NOLA on Sunday, only difference was the race car was going the direction the track was designed and he hit the curved part of the Armco.

Shane Morris > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 21:43

Sorry, didn't mean to alter the tone: I just hate seeing really stupid stuff like this. The track organizers effectively ran a track into a goddamn razor's edge.

You just hate seeing it, because he was doing the job to provide for his family. And these negligent assholes took him away.

Flavien Vidal > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE
04/13/2015 at 21:47

I write here under my own name, so I won't go too much into detail... The biggest indoor center in Canada.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 21:49

Gas-powered go-karts on an indoor track? Especially ones that fast? That's crazy dude

StigBot > JayHova
04/13/2015 at 21:49

In this case they did learn, because there is now a barrier there to prevent this from happening again.

Flavien Vidal > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE
04/13/2015 at 21:52

They can reach 65/70kph with a driver that knows what he is doing, all that indoor... They were only 9hp, but usually indoor gokarts are 6hp.

MarkInDallas > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 21:52

I guess I am puzzled by the fact that if this was such an egregious error, why after looking at the track did Gary Terry not demand they change the direction of the cars running on the track? Seems like it is "Racing 101" right?

I understand that this might sound callous, but being a professional surrounded by amateurs, should it not be partially his responsibility to stand up and demand the idiocy be changed?

There is now some 24 year old kid that most likely feels an enormous amount of guilt for ending the life of a man he had met earlier that day. A kid that assumed all the necessary safety precautions were taken, and he was in as safe of an environment as possible.

Adognamedbash > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 21:52

As an attorney, it sucks to say that if the instructor was an employee, as opposed to an independent contractor, his family's remedy may be limited to workers comp and, if so, will be puny compared to the wrath of a jury in a negligence suit.

This also sucks because insurers/employers are less likely to learn their lesson with a one million dollar award than they are with a seventy million dollar verdict.

Here's hoping to a non-employer third party defendant.

Eddie > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 21:55

im pretty much one of the color blind people where the green and orange look the same but here looking at the track images alone...i saw the fatal mistake... sad to see your friend of a friend go :( R.I.P and condolences to the family!

Im quite glad they are tearing it down!

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 21:56

That's what, 45 in Freedom Units? (kidding) I'd say they should probably come up with a stricter driver education session. Can't believe they haven't especially since all that stuff happened.

whitemare > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 21:57

That's corporatism for you. Charge the most money you can for the product or service, and provide it at the lowest cost possible (no safety standards, minimum wages. poor maintenance). Both those things are the case here.

And no doubt there's another example of corporatism at play: employee waivers. The family will likely have a hard time suing Disney.

BecauseRacecar > green_man_group
04/13/2015 at 22:00

My gosh thats scary

Chris DeShong > Brian, The Life of
04/13/2015 at 22:00

The sad part about all of this is the track is months away from being closed and turned into a overflow lot for Disney...

Flavien Vidal > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE
04/13/2015 at 22:01

It does not matter... It's also open 24/7 and I could go on with the drunk people we end up with at night, the fights, when we have to actually throw people out of the karts and so on...

"People" are stupid. For most people, no amount of driver ed is EVER going to change anything. This is most likely the reason why he managed to crash a supercar with 4WD and a massive amount of traction control while coming out of a corner. This is why I will never do this kind of work at a rental place. At a HPDE class, why not, most people who drop 4 or 5k$ for 3 days of teaching are here to listen, and the track is most likely run the right way... But 99$ "drive a supercar" rentail thing, no freaking way. You getot deal with all the low-life scum that want their picture at the wheel of an automatic 360 Modena for the sole purpose to put it on facebook and when they start driving "they know what they're doing already!"

BBlades > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:01

One of Sam Schmidt Indycars won the race yesterday. Schmidt didn't stand up to congratulate his driver, not because he is a jerk, but because he became a quadriplegic after a wreck at WDW Speedway. I am sure he won't miss the place either.

evoCS > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:04

When I tell people I do the occasional track day in my daily driver, the question "Is that safe?" almost always pops up. "Safer than on the street" is my usual answer, controlled environment, safety crew present, grouping by skill/experience.

One would hope the controlled environment portion, the one variable that has the most control by the event organizers is up to standards at best, competent at the least. What happened here is unconscionable. Period.

And it is really good to hear from those who take the risk of sitting with guys like myself who are trying to learn their car, hone their driving skills, and have a great deal of fun. It isn't appreciated enough the risks being taken.

Mr. Miller, thank you for speaking up.

ThreeJays > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:04

I am extremely sorry for your friend's passing.

Without being insensitive (I hope), it's hard to argue that he was not complicit in activity that was contra to established practice. He was a professional, so we can presume he possessed sophistication similar to yours. That means he knew risky behavior and he knew what the potential ramifications for engaging in it. That's not blaming him for the accident, but acknowledging that he assumed the risk of an occurrence.

Secondly, motor sports aren't accessible to most people from a young age, at least not as participants. Professional drivers learn at a young age, gradually drive faster cars as their skill improves. The rest of us really can't learn until we have sufficient disposable income. If you assert that coaching is too dangerous (aside of track defects), what do you propose? Do you think that programs such as this are inherently unsafe, and that super cars shouldn't be driven or bought by the hoi polloi? A license grade to qualify to drive such autos (although, if instructors aren't willing to teach because of the danger, one wonders how that's achieved)?

FunAndGames > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 22:06

While I don't think that anything that you said is wrong, I agree with the OP. It's too early to jump to conclusions about the cause of the accident (although driver error seems likely) but that doesn't have anything to do with the safety concerns Jon raised. Why were they driving the wrong way on a track that was obviously not designed for it?

Again, I agree that giving supercars to inexperienced drivers to thrash on a track seems like a really dumb idea. But if the proper safety measures aren't in place, you're placing all drivers in danger.

KremerK3 > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:08

This place should be sued to the ground. Anyone who wants to build and run a race track for 80cc karts should have better safety rules than this, never mind a track run by a mega-corporation like Disney allowing any old Joe with a wad to pilot over a ton metal housing a 500hp+ engine THE WRONG WAY around a track.

This needs to go viral until these wankers pay up or god help me i will never watch another Disney movie as long as i live, i will make it a personal vendetta to write the most scathing reviews of every Disney movie on the most popular review sites despite having not seen them. I will buy a bunch of Disney toys and proceed to douse them in gasoline before lighting them on fire and watching them burn into a smoldering heap of plastic goo, this will be posted on the web with a description of what Disney allowed to happen due to negligence etc etc.

I suggest all, ALL Jalop's make a solemn promise to boycott ALL Disney product's, if you have bought tickets for the family vacation at Disney, CANCEL them, tell all who will listen in every form of media to do likewise if they have a shred of decency, worldwide bad publicity is almost the only thing that works these days.

My deepest sympathy to a guy who deserved better, "barely minimum wage with no health insurance" driving a 200mph supercar, and worse being a passenger to any fuckwit with money, damn he deserved better.

whitemare > For Sweden
04/13/2015 at 22:09

See also (ironically) Markko Martin and the crash that killed Michael Park. The car wrapped around a tree on the passenger side, killing Park instantly.

And no, American tracks haven't learnt. The Fontana track killed Greg Moore in 1999, and it still has a grass infield. Moore's car went sideways, the tires dug into the grass and it flipped, causing his head to hit the wall directly. The roll hoop was of no value during that crash.

The biggest problem in the US is that race tracks only meet SCCA "safety standards", which are a joke compared to the FIA's standards. Very few US tracks (e.g. Austin) are FIA approved.

Flavien Vidal > FunAndGames
04/13/2015 at 22:10

Oh yes, I totally agree with this, but I was mostly refering to his comments about the kind of people he had to deal with. The fact the track was not run the proper way is problem #1. Getting people to drive fast cars on racetrack is inherantly prone to crashing... This can'T be helped. To not have the track setup and protected properly is where the million dollar lawsuit is at though.

Saving4F80 > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 22:12

So people shouldn't drive fast on public roads but instead go to track days. But they shouldn't track their 500+ horsepower cars unless they have what? A race license.

Senna had a race license and was going the right direction on the track. Auto racing is an inherently dangerous sport. Accidents happen. At this point it seems that going the wrong direction is what caused the man's death.

RedPir8Roberts > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 22:12

As some others have posted, people can't be trusted to behave on the street either, if anything that's asking for more trouble and endangering the general public with less protection for everyone. Particularly if you're in a group of similarly exotic cars, I think there's pressure to keep up and/or show off. I think done properly, with real emphasis on safety, this sort of thing (on a track) is a great way to drive an exotic car—but clearly this was not done properly. To your point, this track was not set up or used correctly to minimize the danger, and the same people who can't behave karting are likely to find the inevitable danger points in a place like this. Ironically, one of the best attractions at Disney when it opened was a go-kart with a body to look like a racecar that you drive around a course—and the cars straddled a guiding rail. The cars were relatively quick at first, but they had to keep slowing them down more and more to prevent accidents even with the rails, because you had kids or their parents going flat out and bumping into the car in front of them (sometimes intentionally) despite all sorts of signs, warnings, etc. Finally they wouldn't let kids below a certain age do it at all, and the cars were so slow it was no fun unless you were a 4 year old passenger.

Prophet of hoon > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:14

the only thing that is good out of this is that the mother and child will want for nothing as Disney and Petty have deep, deep, deep pockets.

Prophet of hoon > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
04/13/2015 at 22:15

even cheaper to fill some garbage cans full of sand... it really was needless.

TheGreatGouki > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:18

I KNEW IT!! When I saw the pic, I had to wonder if they were driving the wrong way. I'm not a racer or even anything close. But, I looked at the layout from a game design perspective and noticed that rail. As the article points out, there's safety barriers of sorts on those points, and if there were none there it's obviously an abuse of the track's safety layouts.

The million dollar question is now: who was letting people drive the track backward, and why?

TimSee > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:18

Oof. This was a tough read. Thank you for writing and posting this.

Wagonboy > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:19

Question for the insurance agency covering the track and the Disney Exotic Driving Experience.... Does the policy/coverage specifically address running the cars in the wrong direction that the track was designed for? Is it addressed and/or spelled out in the coverage policy?

Question for the D.E.D.E. management... Have any of you ever been to a race track while cars are speeding around it? Have any of you ever watched a race on TV? Are any of you aware that cars can, will and have crashed at any and all points of a race track - even in the hands of skilled professionals?

You all, D.E.D.E management, have given motorsports a massive black mark for your negligence. And as hard as it is to say, the other instructors, course workers and other D.E.D.E. employees who call themselves race fans, "members of the racing brotherhood" and aficionados have some cross to bear as well for not speaking up or acting to the obvious hazards of running a race track against it's safety designs. Pilots, race car drivers, boaters, motorcyclists, skydivers, mountain climbers.... the good ones have a keen eye and respect for safety, protocol and maintenance and they demand that everyone around them has those same qualities.... especially the one's getting paid to do so.

What a waste.

AlgonquinBear > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:23

My parents are avid Nascar fans, I'm much less so, however I don't understand how any track, after the invention of SAFER they haven't been legally required. Most ovals still don't seem to have them on the inside wall, it's a crime.

Howie > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 22:23

Seems kind of odd but umm... okay... you seem to be advocating the school of hard knocks and trial by fire in the public domain.

OutOfHere > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:23

Horrible preventable tragedy. Sorry for loss. Why the fuck were they running the wrong way on the track?

davep > TopSirloin
04/13/2015 at 22:23

Couldn't agree more. Whoever is in charge of the track and its operations should be held accountable for the negligence. No reason they should have be running the track the opposite direction.

FunAndGames > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 22:24

...but I was mostly refering to his comments about the kind of people he had to deal with.

Totally fair. I have a few friends who are racing instructors and I can only imagine the types of yahoos you have to deal with. I'm guessing it's even worse at a go-kart track because "Hey, they're only go-karts." Sounds like you have some real nightmare stories.

Raymond K > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:26

And why wasn't any of this brought up -before- the accident?

Playdrv4me > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 22:33

This is kind of a stupid post. You're basically advocating for the reverse of the way everyone *should* be learning to drive their high performance vehicles. i.e NOT ON PUBLIC ROADS.

This was clearly a failure on the part of the track operators for operating the track in the wrong direction and not having energy absorbing devices on potential impact points more than anything else. Maybe the driver was a jackwagon, but if the aforementioned issues hadn't been in play, this would have potentially just been a very embarrassing and somewhat painful accident, rather than an outright tragedy.

Flavien Vidal > Playdrv4me
04/13/2015 at 22:38

No. Everyone can sort of drive in public roads. Putting someone in any car and telling them to go around the block is fine by me... it's no worse than renting a normal car. Putting someone in a supercar on a racetrack and telling them to floor it is another story.

Rand0nS > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
04/13/2015 at 22:38

Yup, its a big plastic can with sand or water in it

Kaufmania: Mark Webber's Stunt Double > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:39

incredible, infuriating, and sad.

I was ready to chalk this up to a racing incident until now.

Thanks For the insight.

tripzpedalz > TopSirloin
04/13/2015 at 22:40

It's going to be worker's comp though. Could make it legally more complicated and possibly less financially fruitful.

shanepj13 > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:40

I understand why this track will be closing in the near future, but there's a few questions I have about that. First off I feel it's a huge hassle, the amount of money required to tear it down, and the effort required to sell a slew of super cars just doesn't seem worth it to me. I feel the lesson that should be learned in this case is that the proper safety precautions should be taken. Get actual professionals (like the author) to run these events. They know how the tracks should be run and the precautions that should be taken. Utilize roll cages and harnesses in cars as an added thing too if needed. The lesson they are advertising is that we are better off shutting down tracks and banning attractions like this than actually just doing it the right way. I understand why the tracks shutting down but this is just highly frustrating.

sonicgabe > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:40

When I looked at the photos of the accident and the track, I said the same thing - They were going the opposite direction of the design of the track. No matter what led to the loss of control, the direction of travel relating to the barrier is what killed him. This was completely preventable. I hope that The Mouse Rat is held accountable for this tragedy. I know money is probably the last thing his family cares about at this moment, but The Rat needs to step up very publicly to make this as right as possible.

Rand0nS > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 22:41

I disagree. The drive experience I did had a 30 min class before hand, then took everyone around the track as passengers at high speed to feel and learn the track. Then the first lap I drove I was told to take it slow and get used to the GT-R. The next few I went faster and faster as I listened to the driver.

The only thing I think should be added is the ability to turn kill the engine and operate the brakes from the passenger side of the car.

SoManyBlueCars > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:43

I've seen so many things on track days that could be prevented. The instructors are some of the bravest people I've met, and all because of a shared joy for cars.

9 times out of 10 it's because of a closed mind. If the instructor is telling you to do something, please do it and don't say yea but. You'll have plenty of time after the session is over to talk things through.

It's mostly the bros to, hacking at the wheel and dragging the brakes along a turn until they fade. Super special when someone discovers under steer the first time. And for god sakes, leave the traction control on! Most cars have competition mode now, great, but it could really save your ass.

Flavien Vidal > Saving4F80
04/13/2015 at 22:45

They shouldn't be put in 500hp moster when they have never even driven a miata to the limits. That's more my point. You don't just throw someone in the driver seat of a supercar on a racetrack like this... Some poeple will do just fine, but many won't. Not to metion the stupid ones that feel like they can do whatever the fuck they want because after all "they paid for it!"

And being a racecar driver is actually very safe in today's world. Driving a roadcar on a track with no extra protection, no hans devices, 5 point harness and roll cage, is another story. I enjoy it when I do it, but it's a lot more dangerous than actual car racing.

Chasaboo > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 22:47

I would not drive in that direction, why would anyone else?

Flavien Vidal > Rand0nS
04/13/2015 at 22:49

Yes, you listened to the driver. You would be surprised at the amount of idiots who don't give a single fuck and do whatever the hell they want because "they paid for it".

Not to mention the ones that simply can barely drive and are offered this kind of rental experience... The kind that is so scared as soon as they put their foot on the accelerator that they let go of the wheel and keep their foot on the gas while screaming... and yes, I have actually seen it happen IRL...

A majority of people are smart and educated enough to listen to what instructors say... But a shitload shouldn't be allowed near this kind of car.

Rand0nS > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 22:52

I just thought about this again. Your post is just ass backwards. A race track is the supposed to be the safest place to drive any car. You've got your rage pointed in the wrong direction. This car was going the opposite direction of the track which turned almost all the safety measures into hazards.

People SHOULD be able to race cars on race tracks, that's where they belong!

Rand0nS > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 22:56

If anyone acts dumb in a car, then the instructor should have the right to end their drive immediately. It's pretty simple. In this crash, we don't know that the driver did anything wrong yet and the go pro videos will answer that.

As for your gocart place, it just sounds poorly ran. At all the tracks I've been to that are worth a damn, they will end your ride and kick you off if you do anything dangerous not limited to ramming people or just not being able to drive (ie, you keep tboning other drivers or the walls). Driving with your foot on the gas and brake are just wear and tear you'll have to deal with. Hell, some people do that in their personal cars on public roads.

Flavien Vidal > RedPir8Roberts
04/13/2015 at 22:56

I may be wrong, but I think people behave a bit differently when they know they risk the police on their ass... For me telling someone with no experience to go somewhat fast around a bumpy racetrack is prone to crashing... Having the track improperly setup is even stupider but let's skip that for now...

Exotic rentals are common in many cities and I don't think people crash them that often... Sure they act like idiots doing short acceleration bursts here and there, but they also get caught by the police very often doing so... I don't think it's as bad as telling someone who has never been on a racetrack before to actually floor the car and enjoy, but "of course" to keep on listeing to the instructor, even if you you know better, because you're SUCH a good driver lol ("you", not being YOU personnaly of course :) )

JustDoALittleResearchFirst > Eddie
04/13/2015 at 22:58

I couldn't tell the difference either. The Deadspin 506sports NFL gameday graphs get me too. The red and green in the key are impossible for me to tell apart and see which game lines up with which region!

Flavien Vidal > Rand0nS
04/13/2015 at 23:04

First it's not a racecar... Finish in the wall or roll a stock Gallardo and it will hurt A LOT more than if you were in a proper racecar with Hans device, 4 point harness, roll cage and so on. Street cars on racetrack are inherently a lot more dangerous than racecars on racetracks...

Second, yes, the racetrack being run backward is the number #1 problem here, I never said it wasn't. It definitly is. My point is that renting a very powerful unprotected car to a 24 year old kid that can apparently manage to get a 4WD car with traction control certainly full on to spin out 3 times before impaling itself on a barrier is not something smart to do. People who have never been on a racetrack before have no place driving a 500hp+ car on one... Sure they can learn and go for it step by step... Start with a Spec Miata, learn it a little...etc. Or if they only have a Gallardo, go on a skid pad, learn the behavior of the car...etc. But telling someone who has most likely never been over 90mph in its entire life to floor it in a car that reaches this speed in 7s... meh...

A ractrack is not a free for all safe place where you can do whatever you want.

J-BodyBuilder - Never stick to sports > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 23:07

Very well put on every level.

JustDoALittleResearchFirst > suss6052
04/13/2015 at 23:08

Not sure I get what you're saying here. Are you insinuating that this single Lamborghini would be driving counter-clockwise while the other cars in the session are going clockwise?

Eddie > JustDoALittleResearchFirst
04/13/2015 at 23:12

colored graphs...they arent good for me...

Gearhead's Garage > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 23:12

Thank you, Jon.

I have been a professional instructor for 25 years, and I completely agree with your comments here. When I saw the picture of the car on the news, it was obvious exactly what happened... it made me sick. The real tragedy here is that this death was completely avoidable.

Flavien Vidal > Rand0nS
04/13/2015 at 23:14

It's easy to say... Go a stop 5 or 10 people that are borderline drunk, refuse to get out of their seat and do a crap load of shit on track... Also you can't kick out a person like that. You have to give them the benefit of the doubt at least once or twice before doing something... And that's for each person in the specifc race... You stop the race, tell them to calm down, make them lose seat time to remind them of the instruction... Sometimes it works sometimes they still don't care... Afterall, they are only here for 10 minutes so why give a fuck?? You really have to work in this kind of place to realize the complexity of the situation you end up in. But yes, I will give you that is was also badly run. I did full nights as a course worker, all alone on the track, with the sole potential help of a mecanician if something went wrong, dealing with groups of 10 or 12 drunk agressive people... It sucked really.

The one thing that sucked more is that we have no way to remotly shut down the karts there... That could solve lots of problems and accidents. And yes, we had to call the cops very regulary.

And yes it's normal wear and tear... My point is that this very same person could tomorrow be at the wheel of a supercar on a racetrack, with a poor instructor next to him.

Grant Leavitt > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
04/13/2015 at 23:14

That racetrack hasn't been in much use since the only major series, IndyCar visited the track way back in the 90s.

Coincidentally, I first heard about the track the same day, before the accident. I was researching tracks after watching the IndyCar race yesterday at NOLA Motorsports Park, and this was one of the tracks I saw on the IndyCar Wikipedia (in the grids for related articles; Tracks of the IndyCar series , check the bottom of the page for the chart)... a couple of hours later, I heard about the crash there...

suss6052 > JustDoALittleResearchFirst
04/13/2015 at 23:15

In this scenario yes, it's the case of the wrong way driver. They apparently run those cars clockwise in order to minimize the risk of crashing due to carrying too much speed for the tires by running against the banking, so to tell just one idiot to go the wrong way would do more harm than good. Traffic for the stock cars run ccw, the supercars had to run clockwise. It's not like this was a new development.

Crackerjacktype0 > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username
04/13/2015 at 23:16

I think if that end part of the guard-rail was even designed to curve toward the infield a bit, it would still protect workers in CCW direction, and prevent this in the CW direction. Then again we might never know...

thethinwhiteduke > green_man_group
04/13/2015 at 23:17

Inches. Fucking inches.

Dude is totally cool about it, too. Drivers are a different breed.

MikeA > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 23:18

I won't even let an instructor/passenger in my car on a track. The passenger seat is not upgraded like the driver's, and I am not about to put someone else's life in 1960's safety equipment.

EvilSuperMonkey > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 23:20

I know very little about racing and this seemed startlingly obvious to me in spite of that. Such a terrible thing to happen.

TopSirloin > tripzpedalz
04/13/2015 at 23:22

Worker's compensation statutes are designed to ensure employees that are injured or disabled on the job are not required to pay medical bills associated with their on the job injury, in exchange for employees waiving the right to sue for pain and suffering related awards. That doesn't mean that they can operate a work environment that is so unsafe it costs someone their life and be off the hook.

Rand0nS > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 23:22

I said race cars, not race racecars. Not matter what you think about this, the fact remains that race tracks are the safest place for ANY car to go fast. Period.

So by your logic, we shouldn't allow anyone to buy or rent anything they aren't proven be able to control. I'm sorry, I like my free will and there are already plenty of rules and regulations that protect our safety. In this instance those were ignored and I'm sure a negligence lawsuit is coming.

Grant Leavitt > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 23:23

You're a fucking idiot. Driving courses on race tracks give you instruction first and slow speed instruction with proper safety features. Race tracks are WAY better than endangering the public by street racing or showboating on a public road. Remember what happened with Paul Walker? If his driver hadnt been speeding like he did in the Porsche GT, he would still be alive today.

Race tracks offer more elbow room when it comes to correcting for mistakes. Many of them have plenty of run-off, tire barriers, and guard rails. But these only work if the track is used as designed. In this case, the track was run BACKWARDS, making safety features HAZARDS. If the Lambo was driven properly and in the correct direction (fuck tire wear, buy new tires, Driving School), this incident would have been prevented.

*end rant*

tom.blersch > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 23:26

Imagine a game of a football or basketball where the sidelines are constructed of spears

There's a movie idea...

Hifrequency > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 23:27

I wish you, your friends & family well bro.

DirtyBlueshirt > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 23:33

it's sickening this happened. Was there any reason given *why* they were going counter direction on the course at full speed?

shmulik > Flavien Vidal
04/13/2015 at 23:44

i am a regular person, sort of a car geek, my dream is to drive a high performance car on a track, and since I'm not rich I can't afford a car to get used to it and I can't spend thousands of dollars to get training on a track, my only option is spending a few hundred dollars when I have some extra money and do a one time thing... I'm ready to listen to the instructor and go a lot slower then every other car reviewer does, so as long as I do my part of safety the owner of the track and car needs to do his part, why would someone without experience or money like me loose out because of a very irresponsible track that caused such a tragedy? I really hope that lessons were learned and I wish we will never hear such news again.

R.I.P Garry, I don't know who you are but I couldn't put a smile on my face for the last few hours.

rtbarry33 > Brian, The Life of
04/13/2015 at 23:46

Yes. Now.

Have Jeep, will travel. > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 23:46

Sorry for your loss. It is a tragedy, and all of us who saw the pictures of the scene knew exactly how this tragedy unfolded. Best wishes to his family and friends.

KBABZ > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 23:46

I wouldn't in a million years let myself drive a car like that fast on a racetrack. Normal cars are easier to use on a racetrack, and powerful cars can be driven on the streets, but pushing them to their limits with little experience with those sorts of cars to me is insane. That's like getting a guy who just passed his Cessna flight test to start flying 747s, right?

It is nice at the very least to see that the driver is co-operating fully and not being the jackass that'd make this story even more tragic.

Baddog43 > Jon Miller
04/13/2015 at 23:50

I hate to see this tragedy, I have been around racing since i was a child and anytime we loose someone at a race track it puts a big black eye on our sport. Not to demean anything said here because there should have been more safety steps taken but i would like to make sure everyone is aware that Petty holdings is not fully owned by the Richard Petty family anymore, in the late 2000's a company called Boston Ventures came in and bought Petty Enterprise and when the race team didnt land them big bucks like they thought it should they closed the doors on a family business that had been around since the 40's and what they got out of it was Richard petty Driving Experience, and the rights to Richard Petty name and the Pettys had to buy into another team to stay in the sport. So yes there should be someone responsible here and the money hungry suits and ties at Boston Ventures should be held accountable in stead the Pettys name is being dragged thru the mud and the owner.

Please dont take this as me making light of the death, but as a Petty fan i just hate to see there name blamed for something they really have no control over any more.

RIP Gary, I did the RPDE at Disney several years ago and the instructor was a cool guy, dont remember his name but he was a local racer.

Flavien Vidal > Rand0nS
04/13/2015 at 23:54

By my logic we wouldn't put anyone who has no idea what they're doing in cars like this, on a racetrack, yes... Driving these cars in the street, explaining them the cars are tracked and have a black box (they all have that...), sure...

Flavien Vidal > shmulik
04/13/2015 at 23:56

Yep it sucks. But risking the lives of instructors thanks to people who are not like you sucks even more.

As I said, I firmly believe in renting those cars to be driven on the street. It's just the combo supercar/racetrack/inexperience that can be also combined with a possible "don't give a fuck" attitude that makes it ridiculously dangerous.