Penestar V6 Swap

"Boss2452stolemylunchmoney" (boss2452stolemylunchmoney) 04/11/2015 at 11:15 • Filed to: None

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So, I have an old 300m Special. And, perhaps I'm a bit of a masochist, but I really do love it. It's not worth much, and I know with almost 200k on the clock I'll be needing a new car soon. However, part of me is thinking, why not just be crazy and rebuild the transmission and engine and drive it another 100k miles? Another part of me wants to try engine swapping one of these new Penestar V6 engines. More power and better mileage... What's not to want?

The problem is that the internet is full of people wanting to swap this engine, but no one has actually tried. It seems all the chassis computer integration might make this swap a bit difficult. Any thoughts from oppo?

Sir Halffast > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 11:18

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I am full in favor of Penistar engines.

bob and john > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 11:22

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not worth it. With the money you will spend on the swap and getting everything to work, your better off just buying an OEM car with it.

ly2v8-Brian > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 11:25

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that title

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > bob and john 04/11/2015 at 11:26

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of course it isn't worth it! That's entirely not the point. Is any engine swap worth it? The point is the swap itself.

Rock Bottom > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 11:27

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I really like the current gen 300 and drove a Pentastar car for about a month. I'd save the cash you'll spend for a n engine swap and pick up a newer one. Zero regrets will be had.

crowmolly > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 11:36

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How good of a mechanic are you? This will be an off-the-beaten-path swap.

PheeNoIVI > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 11:50

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Its a 300M, branch out and get a different car that you'll love more.

bob and john > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 12:04

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oh it definetly worth swapping an engine in some cases.

this is not one of them. Its a Chrysler 300m ffs. Its not an SRT8, not anything really worth it. + you will be chasing electrical gremlins for the rest of your life.

The only way I could see this being worth it is if you do it and then make it into a kit of some sort to sell.

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > Rock Bottom 04/11/2015 at 13:08

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i don't care for the newer ones. Don't like the way they look or drive. Plus, I fully own this one. Just paid off my mustang... Not looking for a new loan.

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > crowmolly 04/11/2015 at 13:09

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Really good mechanic. Really good mechanical engineer. Not sure I'm a good enough electrical engineer.

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > PheeNoIVI 04/11/2015 at 13:10

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I already have a car I love more. Don't need another.

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > bob and john 04/11/2015 at 13:14

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I'd probably make a bunch off it. With the number of those engines in cars getting wrecked, they'd be a very nice choice for swaps.

Schaefft > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 16:26

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I really like the idea of keeping the 300m, if there weren't people like you loving these somewhat ordinary cars, all of them would be gone at one point which would be a shame. A rebuild would be much easier and less costly, but a 300hp 300m would be pretty awesome as well.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 18:47

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There's not a whole lot of longitudinal/FWD cars, so your transmission options are quite limited. Either your 42LE needs to have the right bolt pattern, or someone else needs to offer an adapter kit.

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > Schaefft 04/11/2015 at 20:21

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I would also be thrilled about t getting better than 23 MPG.

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/11/2015 at 20:22

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I guess I kind of figured the bell housing would be the same since the 3.5 was also used in the newer cars.

nafsucof > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 21:22

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if you got the whole harness you could do it. I once swapped an SVT engine/harness into a 2000 focus had to get the entire harness and gauges computer etc but since the platforms are the same it should be straightforward

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > nafsucof 04/11/2015 at 21:29

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Wondering how much of the harness I would need. Also wondering if the brake control system (abs, TCS, ASC, etc) is integrated into the ECU, or if it's a separate module. And could I get the engine to run without it? Would I need the BCM? If so, I guess I would need to take the guage clustercluster. Would the fuel gauge work then? Would my wheel speed sensors and tone rings be compatible with the new network? All sorts of unanswered questions.

nafsucof > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 21:42

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like I said I took the whole harness. You could cross reference part numbers for things like the abs module and bcm etc and see if they share the same parts. A lot of times that isn't updated just the engine harness and ecu harness that drives the gauges for example. If you found a wrecked 300 you can get everything, swap all the electrical sensors from the tank, and air bags etc, I don't know enough about that car, how similar are the interiors after the motor change? It may be as simple as the engine harness connecting to the body harness

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > nafsucof 04/11/2015 at 22:26

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Completely different car.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 22:31

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I think it could work. Some research tells me that the 3.5 was mated to a 62TE in the Journey, and the 62TE was mated to a Pentastar in the Grand Caravan, so that means the two engines have the same bolt pattern for the bellhousing.

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/11/2015 at 22:40

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Wonder how long the 42lE would live behind all that extra power. Allegedly, they were going to do a 300HP HO engine in the special, but couldn't get the transmission to live.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/11/2015 at 22:49

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"We put a lot of effort into that," recalled Howard B. Padgham, powertrain engineer, who also noted that the 42LE's significant center-section component detail refinements were designed to cope with the added torque of the 3.5 engine, including upgraded clutch packs and barreled axle shafts.

Allpar suggests that the 42LE was designed with extra power in mind.

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/12/2015 at 08:53

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Interesting article... Points to a few reasons why so many people had transmission "problems" with Chrysler transmissions. Can't use the wrong fluid. Also why they have so much problems in rental fleets (fuzzy logic).

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/13/2015 at 08:52

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I have this in my Durango. Pleasant around town. Miserly on the highway (we got 24mpg in a three-row SUV with a turtle top roof carrier). but it does lack spirit (and torque). It's a revver which is an odd choice for an SUV.

Beyond that, getting a CANBUS engine swapped into a 15 year old chassis sounds like a nightmare. I do like the 300M.

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 04/13/2015 at 09:19

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Do early OBDII cars not run CANBUS? I thought CANBUS was basically synonymous with OBDII. Have I been wrong?

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/13/2015 at 09:29

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Not at all.

Both used OBD2, that is the communication protocol through that multi-pin port under your steering wheel.

CANBUS is for lack of a better term 'broadband' inside your car. Rather than have one wire that goes from a sensor all the way to its devise (let's say the brake pedal sensor to the brake light), CANBUS sends that brake pedal sensor to a computer, the computer sends the signal via broadband to a controller in the back of the car, then that controller tells the brake light to illuminate. Is saves numerous feet of wire tracing back and forth across the car.

Flip that to the complexity of engine controlling and CANBUS gets even more complex.

You would have to run two entirely parallel systems (your traditional hard-wired architecture for the power windows and seats and wipers and sprayer) and entire engine system (for engine, trans and gauges) and I'm sure it would be throwing codes left and right because the system is looking for those parts of the car to be there.

I'm sure somebody out there will have controllers for the much more popular swaps like LS and BMW V8/V10 stuff, but you're unlikely to find it for something like a Pentastar

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 04/13/2015 at 10:01

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I assumed since my car has a body control module, that it was running a CANBUS (or at least CANBUS style) control network.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 04/13/2015 at 10:19

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Do some home work. It can be done, but you have to have someone who understands software as much as engine mounts, etc.

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 04/13/2015 at 10:41

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Yeah. Part of me really wnats to try something like this so I can learn more about these systems. And part of me really just can't be bothered.

lonestranger > Boss2452stolemylunchmoney 07/16/2015 at 14:38

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I’m curious, since it’s misspelled twice, if you hadn’t realized why it’s called Pentastar.

Penta = five. As in pentagram.

Pentagram/five-pointed star = Pentastar.

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > lonestranger 07/16/2015 at 14:44

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Just me being a bad speller.

Basslicks > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 03/13/2017 at 10:59

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Agreed... except when you consider the Hellcat swap into the ‘69 Dodge Charger “General Mayhem” on Roadkill.

I would think it’s going to take a while to get it all done. Certainly not a weekend project, but I’d love to see it done. In fact, if I was nearby, I’d go hands-in on it.