I'm gonna say it...

"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
04/09/2015 at 00:16 • Filed to: None

Ferrari is one of the most boring car companies right now.

Think about it: the 488 lost press attention instantly and the TheFerrari is the least talked-about of the three hypercars, until Bieber bought one, that is.

Personally, I find myself bored with Ferrari right now. Unfortunately, I can't say they need to "return to their roots," because they haven't entirely changed a whole lot. I guess their formula lost all its inertia.

*dons flamesuit*

DISCUSSION (42)

Blake Noble > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 00:23

Hey, I feel that way about all supercars these days. There just isn't much to lust over; none of them break new ground.

DrScientist > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 00:24

the 488 is only an evolution of the 458. i havent heard much thats revolutionary in its deisgn an execution. does that make the company overall boring?

these guys...

Kinja'd!!!

and this guy...

Kinja'd!!!

might have something different to say. (and god, how vettel annoys me)

TheHondaBro > Blake Noble
04/09/2015 at 00:26

Koenigsegg is one of last pure supercar makers.

Kinja'd!!!

That and Pagani.

EL_ULY > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 00:27

i spent almost the whole day at Ferrari of Houston last month with my boss (ex general manager of the place). The things going on at Ferrari are very pure trust me. I'm not just telling you this as the defender of the boring, but more from seeing these machines torn down completely and seeing the precision and strength of each component laid out on the work benches.

HammerheadFistpunch > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 00:27

I agree. oh look, a Ferrari. neat. Frankly I think all the momentum went to ICON and Singer and EAGLE, for style and to Koenigsegg or Zonda or spyker for excitement. Ferrari is playing it too conservative and guarded for market they likes new and exciting OR romantic and retro.

EL_ULY > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 00:29

I would agree.... when they start competing and winning in motorsport.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 00:30

Yeah, we're all just like, oh look, the 458 is getting old, they must be coming out with a new one.

Oh and hey it's the era of cars getting smaller engines and turbo'd.

Make a more rounded F430 with generally the same shape.

Sticks smaller turbo'd engine in it.

-releases it-

-everyone called it-

-not a surprise at all-

Like how Aston is clearly going to come out with something IN THE SAME SHAPE, PROBABLY WITH MORE One-77 and Lagonda styling, definitely one in V12, the other probably in TTV8.

Lamborghini is going to replace their wedges of cheese with rounder wedges of cheese.

I WANT TO BE SURPRISED.

Textured Soy Protein > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 00:33

Counterpoint:

Modern Ferraris are such amazing cars, and make such improvements with each new model, and have been doing that for so long, that to casual observers they're no longer appearing to make progress.

Just look at the entry-level V8 mid engined models over the last 25 years.

348 - 300 hp, sorta-Testarossa side strakes, terrible interior, generally embarrassed by the Acura NSX

355 - 375 hp, cleaned up styling, more reasonable attempt at an interior, and at least it gave something worth buying over an NSX

360 - 400 hp, much more modern styling, lower weight, much less tricky handling, starting to be a legit supercar

430 - 491 hp whoo dogie now we're getting somewhere, and more graceful styling than the 360

458 - 562 hp and this is the entry level model???? vacuums itself to the road, looks like a spaceship, gorgeous interior, just amazing

488 - 661 hp because we need better mpg and added turbos, so might as well get another 100 hp in the process

The 430, 458 and 488 have all been huge leaps even though the 430 was an evolution of the 360 and the 488 is an evolution of the 458.

If you took a 488 back to 1990, people wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

TheHondaBro > EL_ULY
04/09/2015 at 00:35

I've seen plenty of Ferrari's, one time at the same place. Of course, 15 y/o me enjoyed the fuck out of that day at Sonoma Raceway. But they got so boring I don't even give them a second look anymore.

HammerheadFistpunch > EL_ULY
04/09/2015 at 00:35

well engineered =/= exciting. A Camry is well engineered and while I appreciate fine engineering as much as anyone, I still agree that the products or maybe even more broadly, the pulse of Ferrari is lacking.

TheHondaBro > Textured Soy Protein
04/09/2015 at 00:38

Rebuttal: I don't want my Ferrari to be technologically-advanced, that's why we have Porsche and McLaren. I want it to be built with the utmost passion.

Kinja'd!!!

EL_ULY > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 00:40

you're free to feel as you wish :]

The cars at my jobs are getting pretty dull to see in the wild, but I can understand when people get excited about them

Anon > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna
04/09/2015 at 00:43

Then there's Koenigsegg who's just like "Yeah we made a 1700HP supercar that runs on biofuel. Did I forget to mention how it dosen't have an engine? Oh and it has Wi-Fi!

EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch
04/09/2015 at 00:44

They all got their ups and downs over time. I'm sure they'll win over the kid in all of us again :]

Textured Soy Protein > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 00:46

The ethereal concept of "utmost passion" is not mutually exclusive with advanced technology.

Actually, "utmost passion" doesn't mean anything at all.

Porsche gets accused of building the same damn car over and over again for the last 50+ years, but really a current 911 GT3 has about as much in common with an original 911 RS as an F12 has with that 275 GTB. The GT3 just happens to look more like the RS than the F12 looks like the 275 GTB.

TheHondaBro > Anon
04/09/2015 at 00:47

"It runs on dinosaur urine and sings show tunes!"

I love Koenigsegg.

Blake Noble > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 00:49

Eh... I'm sorry. It looks like every other supercar to me — charmless and wedgy, hyperbolic and yet devoid of a substantial personality.

Is it weird I think this is more of a supercar than the Ferrari or the Koenigsegg?

Kinja'd!!!

TheHondaBro > Blake Noble
04/09/2015 at 00:50

But... but... the Koenigsegg has those crazy doors and makes a butt-ton of power!

Manuél Ferrari > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 00:52

I disagree. I think they've changed too much.

Their formula used to be gated shifters + fire breathing N/A engines (with the exception of the 288 GTO and F40).

Now everything is DCT only and once the F12 is replaced all cars will either be turbo charged or N/A + electric.

I will never sell my F430. Give me an 8500 RPM N/A motor + a gated shifter over turbos and a DCT 7 days a week.

Manuél Ferrari > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2015 at 00:54

Also

The 488 looks stupid

The 458 is a much better looking car

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 01:06

You're not surprised because it seems every manufacturer has come quite a long way in a relatively short amount of time. Someone mentioned taking the 488 back in time and people wouldn't know what to do. I think I can top that. Drop a loaded 2015 Toyota Camry V6 off at the NY World's Fair in 1964. Or a brand new Accord. Or Fusion. Or basically ANYTHING made in the past 10 years.

We've come a long way. How many of you have actually set a points distributor. I did it ONCE. On a friends older car. I've never owned a car with one. Manual choke anyone?

Blake Noble > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 01:12

True, but the Tesla goes almost 300 miles on a single charge of electricity. It has two trunks. It has a crazy ass rear jump seat for kids and can comfortably seat four adults. It has an Autopilot system and a giant iPad for a dash board. It also updates itself like an iPhone.

It's also all-wheel drive. It's only 0.2 seconds slower to 60 mph than that stupid red Ferrari pictured above. Sure, it has a much slower top speed, but who in the hell ever goes 200 mph plus anyway? Seriously. I've never driven 200 mph and I'd bet that 9/10 people haven't either, nor do they really care.

And the best part, I think, is that it's priced to compete with BMWs and Mercedes and not some bullshit from Maranello.

The Koenigsegg might have 1,500 horsepower, but I wonder just how much of that is going to be usable power. I guess I'll let you have the doors, though. :P

DipodomysDeserti > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 01:13

I think it's that they don't really cater to Honda owners. Toyota. Now there's a car company doing some real exciting stuff. I hear the new Camry is really grounded to the ground.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Textured Soy Protein
04/09/2015 at 01:13

All valid. However, if you took a FoST back to 1990 people wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

TheHondaBro > Blake Noble
04/09/2015 at 01:14

Oh don't get me wrong, the Tesla is an amazing feat, but Koenigsegg and Pagani didn't sell their souls like Ferrari and Lamborghini did.

TheHondaBro > DipodomysDeserti
04/09/2015 at 01:21

Yeah, I just wish they could make something as exciting as a V6 Accord.

PushToStart > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2015 at 01:28

Wait, I thought your F430 had the F1 transmission? Haha

And speaking of keeping the turbos just in the F40s and 288 GTOs, I had this badass idea the other night...

Comission Ferrari to build a one-off, fully custom F40-tribute car using the 488 platform (since its a TT V8 and all). (similar to how Eric Clapton had his BB-tribute SP12 EC made)

Basically, I imagine the entire interior being stripped totally bare like the F40's is (maybe made just a tiny bit more elegant, sort of how the Alfa 4C is) and make the exterior very reminiscent of the F40. Then, since obviously this plan requires that I be extremely, extremely wealthy, I would buy an F40 and park them next to each other and be my own personal hero.

GhostZ > Blake Noble
04/09/2015 at 01:44

Camless engines, 250MPH without using a transmission, 1 kg per HP, bespoke electronics and aero, funky mirrors and door hinges, 200+mph targa roofs, triplex suspension, hollow carbon fiber rims... the list goes on.

There is a big difference between anything that Koenigsegg touches, and every other 'supercar' out there.

The Model S is an an amazing car . But it's still, just a car.

TopSirloin > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 01:49

This... Is kind of ridiculous. Aesthetically speaking, Ferrari produces supermodels. Are you tired of Ferrari because they're too shapely and exotic? They were one of the last super car makers to stick to their guns.. To stick to history of what made Ferrari who they were. Are they the least talked about because they don't have some turbo/hybrid electric system? I think that's something you're not considering. It's still a striking car, that is conveys their design language well, but is sure to continue to push the envelope unlike some (Porsche). To me this sounds like you're complaining about a supermodel because she doesn't have something that makes her different from the other supermodels.

jkm7680 > TheHondaBro
04/09/2015 at 07:04

That's a bit of a stretch, but they really are getting kinda boring and uninteresting.

Especially now that the only thing they actually do is sell merchandising rights for their shitty clothes line to the Chinese.

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > Blake Noble
04/09/2015 at 07:15

*sigh*

I don't think you realise how much you should like an asshat Tesla fanboy. You mentioned: "Range", mentions the 0-60 time but respectively leaves out its ability to maintain accelerate anything over ~100MPH, price, roominess, AWD...

And you compare it to other supercars, but crafting around the fact that the 488 is RWD, no hybrid technology, etc. so no instant torque or anything/power to the ground, and yet it can out accelerate a 4WD eletric car.

The only that prevents that being as flat out asshat is that you didn't mention "Noise" or "Enviroment"

And before you accuse me of hatin, I do like the tesla, but it's not *that* God inspiring.

Gonemad > Blake Noble
04/09/2015 at 07:16

God damn, Kinja won't let me give you two upvotes.

The Tesla IS the ultimate supercar, has more horsepower than all the cars I previously owned combined, but oh look! It has a boring sedan body! Boring doors that open like any other! An engine so boring that nobody even bothers to show! A carpeted void where the engine was supposed to be!

I guess Tesla could be qualified as the ultimate sleeper supercar: It looks boring and common, but oh boy, the toys, the revolution on how things are done within it...

Lekker > Blake Noble
04/09/2015 at 09:55

Yeah, it is. Because it isn't. I'm not discrediting the science and tech behind it tho, I believe it to be an insane machine

Blake Noble > Lekker
04/09/2015 at 10:37

Riddle me this then: Aside from its low top speed, how isn't it a supercar?

Let's assume that a supercar must:

Be constructed in a unique fashion atypical of most regular production cars.

Be geared mostly toward performance.

Be designed emotively.

Now let's see if the Tesla fits those parameters:

Is it constructed differently from regular production cars? Answer: Yes. It has dual electric motors, which means it has a rather unconventional layout overall. It's currently the world's only both front and rear-engined production car.

Is it geared mostly toward performance? Answer: Yes. It has over 600 horsepower and can reach 60 mph in about 3 seconds. It's top speed might be lower than a Ferrari, but it's quite lofty when you consider it's an all-electric car without any sort of petrol engine on board to boost its power. So you could say the top speed is a bit of a wash.

Is it designed emotively? Answer: Yes. Styling is always subjective, but you can't argue that the Tesla is a very inspired looking car. If you

Hmmm... Seems to tick most of the major boxes to me.

Supercars don't have to have huge engines and be festooned with holes in every body panel to be supercars. Let me also remind you that this thing — believe or not — was the one of the fastest cars, if not the fastest car in the world at one time:

Kinja'd!!!

Looking at it, would you call it a supercar? Hell no! It's a fucking Buick Regal at the end of the day. But yet back in the 1980s, it had the highest top speed and the most performance of any car on the market. McLaren even had a hand in making it. And, believe it or not, it still fits the parameters I described above.

Let me also be clear on something here: I'm not arguing my point so that the Tesla joins the ranks of Ferraris and Lamborghinis, or because I'm a Tesla cultboy chugging down Elon Musk's special cherry Kool-Aid. I'm harping on this because it really says something about supercars when a non-supercar shares most of their properties. It ultimately begs the question: What's all the hype about? Why lust over supercars when there's increasingly becoming less and less to lust over in the first place?

Supercars are fucking dinosaurs, I think. The day will come soon when they'll go extinct. At one time, they were at the very the top of the automotive food chain. Lesser cars aspired to be Ferraris or Lamborghinis. Now, we're finding that lesser cars are catching up and becoming supercars in their own right. Lesser cars have evolved and ascended, and will continue to evolve and ascend. Supercars haven't really evolved much in the last few years; they're in a period of stasis. And the laws of evolution will tell you what happens to things that don't evolve...

Blake Noble > Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion
04/09/2015 at 10:51

Um, I don't know what to say. Sorry I guess?

Like I said in my response to Lekker, I'm not a Tesla cultboy gulping down Elon Musk's special cherry Kool-Aid out of a plastic sports bottle. The point I'm trying to make is this: When non- supercars share so many of the qualities and traits we've come to expect from traditional supercars, what's the point of building supercars these days? Weren't they always supposed to be more human than human — or more car than car, so to speak?

... I guess if anything I'm guilty of being a bit cynical in this argument. Maybe I'm being a bit dickish here, too. And if I am, I really am sorry.

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
04/09/2015 at 12:23

Haha I love this plan!

But to really carry out your plan you need to be wealthy enough to pay Ferrari to put a gated shifter in the F40 tribute car. Then it will be perfect!

Basically all Ferrari will need to do is take the eventual CS/Scud/Speciale (or whatever they call the hot version of the 488) and tweak the outside to have pop up headlights and a massive rear wing and install gated shifter.

PushToStart > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2015 at 12:38

I wonder if they'll call the hot version the GTO in homage to the 288... They better call the convertible version the GTS, like the 308 (and others).

Honestly, I wouldn't even be *that* upset if that hypothetical car had the F1 transmission. With a legit F40 to go with it, you'd have the awesome gated-shifter goodness, and the new one would be a tribute, but still it's own car.

jjhats > AMGtech - now with more recalls!
04/09/2015 at 13:19

I own one and this isn't even remotely true. plenty of awesome shit in the 90's that compares

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
04/09/2015 at 13:23

If they make a 488 GTO then it's gonna be so expensive! Look at 599 GTO prices these days...

I know F1 is better for cars this fast. But the stick is so much more fun. Imagine a 5 speed dogleg with straight cut gears like the F40 :D

PushToStart > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2015 at 13:38

Well a 488 GTO would essentially be what a 458 Speciale/430 Scud etc is. More expensive than the standard model but not exponentially so. It'd be different than the 599 GTO is, since it wouldn't be quite as limited production and wouldn't have the V12.

And hell yeah, stick is way more fun. I'd be curious to see if Ferrari would even consider making a manual transmission for a one-off. The development cost alone would probably be so much that they'd say no just for the client's sake haha :P

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
04/09/2015 at 14:51

But if they did limit production to around 600 units and use the GTO name I bet it would become super desired. People love dat name, haha

Yeah if they did a one off stick it would be VERY expensive. I bet they would do it as long as someone was rich enough and willing to pay for it. If someone offered them 15 million dollars for a stick shift La Ferrari I bet they'd make it, haha

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > Blake Noble
04/09/2015 at 16:04

I think the main point of HyperCars these days is they provide (1) eye candy (2) great hedge fund purchases