Uhh....dog training devices don't hurt dogs?

"CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)" (ccpbb)
04/05/2015 at 21:47 • Filed to: None

uh..I doubt that. "E-collars can be very helpful in making dogs happier!"......I don't have a dog. OPPO can you help me here?

SLS AMG with bullet holes for your time.

DISCUSSION (16)

CB > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
04/05/2015 at 21:50

... I don't think they work like that. And what Garmin is saying sounds like inevitable state-sponsored propaganda.

Also, I don't think you will find any unbiased source on the subject.

wunderwagen wants a longer roof > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
04/05/2015 at 21:57

I've never believed that shock collars(that's what they are, fuck that marketing shit) are necessary or humane. Get a fence and/or train your dogs, shocking the shit out of them is abuse. I realize I'm extremely biased but I know for damn sure I wouldn't want to be shocked, no animal wants to.

Funktheduck > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
04/05/2015 at 22:07

I work with dogs and I don't like them. From a training perspective they're not good. It's negative reinforcement which isn't as effective. Take a stun gun. Stick it to your neck and press the button. Then tell me it's not harmful. I've used them with client dogs on occasion but it's rare and I don't like to. The only time I think it's ok is when the shock is less harmful than the behavior you're trying to correct. For example hunting dogs: them running off could mean a slow death in the woods. They're also useful for huskies that tend to run off and not listen to anyone.

JasonStern911 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
04/05/2015 at 22:20

the whole "using a shock collar (not sugar coating it with an e-collar name) to get around building a fence" thing makes no sense to me and I feel is inhumane, but using a notifying style shock collar when the dog is a puppy is an amazing learning tool. if a dog chews on a shoe, then gets punished when the owner gets home, it isn't going to associate the punishment with the crime. they don't have the long term memory and cognizance to put together why they are in trouble, and yelling in English isn't going to help. but if the shoe is positioned over one of those small dimensions shock bases, and the dog gets a beeping notification and then a small shock if it fails to leave the shoes alone, the dog quickly learns not to go after shoes as the punishment is associated with the act. and it isn't just shoes, but also things like chewing on the fireplace rock that could cause serious harm to the dog's teeth and digestive system. I assure you a minor shock to stay away is a better learning tool than after the fact surgery. I am not going to lie - 24/7 supervision and interaction during the puppy stage to provide both positive and negative feedback is more idealistic, but in a lot of cases, especially with owners that work full time, it is unrealistic.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Funktheduck
04/05/2015 at 22:24

oh. So it's more of a extreme case device, and something of a last resort..

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > CB
04/05/2015 at 22:25

This is direct from Garmin dealer employee training.

CB > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
04/05/2015 at 22:27

Be wary if they give you a Good Employee medal to wear at all times.

soundman98 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
04/05/2015 at 22:30

i really don't understand how the dogs happiness has anything to do with the question they're asking... they ask if using an e collar harms dogs, and then says it makes them happy?

i believe that answer is false. dogs are happy doing pretty much everything we don't want them to, and certain things we do want them to. collars aren't for their happiness, it's for ours. the use of any sort of collar or leash arrangement is to give us control over the dog— and could otherwise be called behavior modification.

i do think that dual-stage shock collars are needed for certain dogs (the one's that beep as a first warning, and then later shock). i don't want to get shocked, or like getting shocked any more then anyone else, but getting shocked is relatively harmless and can be a very effective tool for certain cases.

example: my bosses beagle has been through training courses a couple times, but generally doesn't listen to my boss or his wife. it knows the commands, but 'just ain't care'. but with the collar, 99% of the time, the beep is enough to get the dog's attention and get it to stop doing whatever bad behavior it's doing.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > CB
04/05/2015 at 22:33

I already regret buying my Garmin 510 (it's a poorly programmed piece of shit) and will never buy from them again. They have somewhat a philosophy among Garmin "Let's make the best device ever and fuck finishing the final touches on the last day! We're getting hammered!" *never completes it; comes with nonfunctional functions; overbloated; buggy.

KayGB > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
04/05/2015 at 22:33

If you're diligent and always precede a shock correction with a tone correction, in very short order the need to shock becomes completely unnecessary. There is also a system that merely vibrates against the dog's neck and some breeds find that this is quite enough to talk them out of some goofy canine habits.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > KayGB
04/05/2015 at 22:35

The shock is just too much for me; I think vibrations will work. Traumatizing a dog with negative reinforcement with shocks isn't that good..

CB > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
04/05/2015 at 22:39

Tomtom seems to be the better of the brands. Apparently Magellan is a heaping pile of crap, too.

Funktheduck > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
04/05/2015 at 22:56

For me it is. They hurt. I've put them on myself and cranked them up all the way. But there are some instances when that's what's needed to snap a dog out of what their focused on and bring the focus back to you. There are usually better ways but sometimes it's the most effective.

samssun > wunderwagen wants a longer roof
04/06/2015 at 03:26

Ever shocked yourself with one? It's unpleasant, but immediately over. I've carried my dog's across the fence and it was basically like someone slapped my hand with a ruler. Pretty sure the dog laughed.

They also beep first, so it only takes a time or two to associate the beeping with the flags. With our last move, we didn't even need the fence at the new house, just put the flags up for a few days and that was the extent of the training.

wunderwagen wants a longer roof > samssun
04/06/2015 at 06:17

I have, I'm not a fan. You aren't going to convince me shock collars are humane, please don't try.

KayGB > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
04/06/2015 at 09:05

Well, I have to say that I've held collars to the back of my own neck and tested them. Unpleasant? Yes. Cruel and unusual? I suppose if Ilsa, Shewolf of the SS had the controller it could be (then again, she looked might fine in that uniform, what number would she be using, and what would be the reward for good behaviour?). I digress. You have to consider that among canine packmates, correction for objectionable behaviour can run to some mighty stern stuff, I submit that a few medium intensity shocks to the neck will not crush your dog's soul. In fact, it'll probably cause you more mental anguish, by the sound of it. My headstrong pair of Heelers both can be stopped during the prosecution of any nonsense just by the warning tone. One of the few shocks I dealt out years ago almost certainly saved the male's life, so I personally am OK with shock collars used properly and sparingly. I suspect also that a good quality vibratory collar will be quite effective.