The car search continues.

"Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell." (oppisitelock) 03/14/2015 at 15:31 • Filed to: None

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To find my stepdad a reasonable vehicle for under £1'000. We looked at a few Ka's and they were all as rusty as we expected. The only reasonable vehicle was a 1.6 Focus but the running costs were too high. The search continues...

dogisbadob > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 15:37

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Oh man you';re lucky you got the Ka. I really wish they were sold over here! They look so cool and still look good today.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > dogisbadob 03/14/2015 at 15:41

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There'll barely be any left before long. Some started rusting within 3 years, every single one I've seen has the fuel filler rust.

Zohaibman72 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 15:55

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MK4 Fiesta?

or MK3?

I don't know anything about the car market in the UK, but if your looking at Fords, there should be some older Fiestas.

I'm sure you can find a Nissan Micra under 1000

Vracktal > dogisbadob 03/14/2015 at 15:58

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They have a timeless look but the underpinnings are actually fairly antiquated- the engine is from a much older Ford model and is remarkably dirty for such a small displacement. On top of that they never galvanised the early models properly so they have a real rust issue now.

Having said all that, they're a hoot to drive and I think have a real shot of becoming the 'Mini' of Ford Motor Company.

RWS Motorsport > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 16:04

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Something like a chevy (daewoo) matiz should be do-able for sub £1000. I saw a 2006 one for sale just round the corner from me for £1000 a few weeks back. Its not an interesting car, but itll run until we run out of fossil fuels, and will cost about 25p a year to run.

Or as was suggested lower down, Micra - theres a reason all delivery drivers use them. cheap, cheap parts, cheap maintenance, and cheap cars.

ETA: they did make a 1.4 focus. the mark 1 /1.5 ones are very well screwed together, but do rust at the rear window and behind the mirrors, not structural but not ideal. mines finally starting to go there now.

Cé hé sin > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 16:18

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Micra? Could you find an early Yaris for that kind of money? They're both reliable and the Yaris is a little less likely to revert to iron oxide.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > RWS Motorsport 03/14/2015 at 16:28

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We're actually replacing a Micra, the engine still ran great (it's on it's way to the scrapper now) but they rust so badly which is what killed ours. A matiz actually isn't a bad idea. Even with the 1.4 the Focus' insurance is too high.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Zohaibman72 03/14/2015 at 16:29

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The older Fiestas rust pretty badly and we're actually replacing a Micra that died of rust.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Cé hé sin 03/14/2015 at 16:30

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I've been looking for a Yaris, they're surprisingly hard to find in budget without unreasonable mileage (130k +)

Struggling to find Micras that wont rust as badly as the last one did in price range.

RWS Motorsport > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 16:49

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Ah fair, i hadnt factored in insurance. Yeah rust is a bitch, we had a Sierra estate when i was little which got a Stop notice after an MOT because rust had eaten so much of the underside away.

If you can find one for the money, the Nissan Note and Honda Jazz are super cheap to insure. A freind who is my age halved his insurance bill when his Punto ate itself, and he inherited his parents old Nissan note.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > RWS Motorsport 03/14/2015 at 16:51

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Ours had frame rail, sill, all four arches, hood, rear bumper mount and spare wheel well rust...

The note and Jazz are out of range unfortunately, the Hondas hold their value because of their reputation for reliability.

RWS Motorsport > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 16:55

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thats always the way, the Korean stuff is a nice little solution, because they have no brand. theres no cache with owning one, so their values plummet. cant think if hyundai made a car of that sort of size before the i10,

...

i went off to google. the Hyundai Amica was the precursor to the i10. might be worth a look.

and Holy Moly thats a lot of rust right there ha, thats more rust than car.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > RWS Motorsport 03/14/2015 at 17:00

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I've started looking at the likes of the Vauxhall Agila, they're cheap and often owned by elderly people so low miles. The Amicas seem to have pretty serious rust issues so I'm steering clear of those.

Yep when we got the Micra it had some on the arches and spots underneath, then over 3 years it just kinda disintegrated. My girlfriend has a 2002 micra too and while it's not an MOT fail, the rear wheel arches are rusting pretty severely. Hers only has 40k miles on it too, engine runs like new but rust will probably stop it even hitting 60k.

RWS Motorsport > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 17:16

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Is the Algila the car that was a tie-up with the suzuki wagon r?

I would guess you can pick both up with an immaculate dealer service history, 1 owner from new, never been driven out side of the county etc.

i just find it so bizzare that modern cars rust so badly. My dad always goes on about the Vivas he used to own and how much fibreglass was in the wings of his because of the rust. it just seems like a thing of the past, but clearly not.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > RWS Motorsport 03/14/2015 at 17:27

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Yeah theyre pretty terrible to drive but are supposedly reliable and cheap. My stepdad gives no fucks about how it is to drive as long as he gets to work on time, so one of those would do. I've already seen one with 40k miles and all the service stamps for £995

Well they're better than they used to be. My grandad always says his toolkit for his morris minor was a pop-riveter, old biscuit tins and fibreglass. He still does his own wrenching now and always says how much better modern cars are for longevity, he has plenty of great/ sketchy car stories.

RWS Motorsport > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 17:34

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Absolutely fair enough, theres an awful lot more people out there like your stepdad who simply want a car as a tool to get them from A to B, than there are people who want a connected driving experience or a car which is fun.

that sounds like a very good deal, well worth a look.

Ha your grandad sounds like a very cool dude,

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > RWS Motorsport 03/14/2015 at 17:37

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He does still appreciate a fun car, it's just not a priority especially on such a tight budget.

Yeah he's a big reason I got into cars and taught me how to work on my own stuff.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 17:48

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A Matiz is always a bad idea. If that's your answer, you're asking the wrong question.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 17:58

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You know what I'm going to tell you: go 'classic'. All of these are better than a fucking Matiz, and cheaper to run and insure as well. (Unless your mum's the world's greatest cougar, I assume your stepdad is old enough...)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-20…

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/f747jtu-/2…

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1991-Ford-…

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1992-TOYOT…

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-340-…

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/J-REG-FORD…

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1989-VOLKS…

I'm vaguely trying to sell the Camry, and if he's saving enough on the insurance, he could probably stretch the budget to close to what I'm looking for.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 17:59

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" they're cheap and often owned by elderly people so low miles."

Old-people cars also tend to have relatively cheap insurance. Have a look at Rover diesels for that. Oh, and there's always the Toyota Yaris Verso. Now there's a car to enjoy trashing.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111 03/14/2015 at 18:00

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When the question is "what can I get that runs by monday for ideally under £800" it can be. The Micra crash test was as bad as that.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111 03/14/2015 at 18:03

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Too much of a risk for a car that needs to make daily 30 mile round trips in the hands of someone who isnt savvy about things like this.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 18:03

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No, then the question you should ask is 'how can I get to work for a week and buy some time?' Or something. Anything. Anything to which the answer isn't Matiz.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111 03/14/2015 at 18:05

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Not a lot of Rovers about these days, havent seen a single Verso for sale either. If I found a Verso though that would do the job.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111 03/14/2015 at 18:08

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For someone who doesnt care about driving it does the job. Theres nothing particularly advanced or exciting in that price range thats around a decade old or less and cheap enough to tax insure and fuel. It's barely a downgrade from what we just had to scrap.

I dont want him getting something with more than 100k miles or over 12 years old preferably. Because if it breaks I have to fix it.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 18:09

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It's really not. It's no less reliable than anything else you'll get for that kind of money. Possibly more reliable, and at least a bit simpler. As long as you buy a decent one, chances are it'll need less work to keep it on the road for a year than a newer car.

It's not like you're choosing between five year old cars and twenty-five year old ones. You'll be lucky to find anything newer than twelve years old or so in your budget. At that age there's a lot of junk about, but by the time you get a fair bit older almost the only ones left are the ones that were well cared for.

Seriously, the Camry's as solid as a car that's done 60k miles, not one that's 26 years old. That's fairly typical.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 18:12

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No, the Matiz is a horrendous, dreadfully built, heaping pile of crap. Especially if you have to fix it, don't even think about it. They're cheap for a reason.

" It's barely a downgrade from what we just had to scrap."

As much as I hate that gen Micra, that's not even remotely close to the case.

You can get a decent Punto for a grand, can't you?

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/14/2015 at 18:14

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Have you been looking on Autotrader? How far are you willing to travel? They tend to have higher mileage than you prefer, but really the difference between 80k and 120k doesn't mean much these days.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111 03/14/2015 at 18:16

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I've found a lot of cars within ten years old with under 70k.

Plus we need a car by Monday ideally, finding a good 20+ year old car with service history and all the work done is going to be awkward. I can find a 10 year old Matiz with a fresh timing belt and service within 5 miles now.

I've done my fair share of work on cars and I'd like to stick with something newer as much as possible.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111 03/14/2015 at 18:18

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Oh god I'm not going near a Punto, the ECU issue alone keeps me off those.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111 03/14/2015 at 18:19

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Autotrader, gumtree, the paper, any free listing sites. Can't travel far really. I like to keep mileage low since people tend not to replace things like clutches until they break. Your chances of not needing to do stuff like that are better on something with lower miles. Budget is pretty tight and I can find low mile stuff relatively easily.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/18/2015 at 20:42

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Sorry, life called an I ran off halfway through this - probably sounding far too imperative about things as a result. What did you end up getting?

And remind me to take up with you the question of whether it's mileage or price that matters, some time I have the time. I'll be interested to see how you get on if you bought a Matiz or similar, because my preference has always been for the slightly higher-mileage car that'll do moon-miles if well cared for - and mid-to-late-nineties Toyotas and Hondas are generally that kind of car.

I've now worked on Fiats, a BMW, and a couple of Toyotas from that era (excluding stuff I did with my dad as a kid, old Mercs were a joy from what I recall) - and I'd rather do a major job on the Toyotas than a minor one on the Fiats. There's a lot to be said for working on a car where every bolt is chunky, where everything you touch or turn is solid. Things go much more like the Haynes says they should.

What I should have thought of suggesting and inexplicably didn't is one of these:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/ca…

The only ones left are good ones, and they're ridiculously cheap for cars which'll run forever. If there's enough spare cash around to buy a cheap car before you sell the other one, there's something to be said for watching ebay and the classifieds until one comes up locally and then switching.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111 03/19/2015 at 06:15

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We got a 2002 Saxo with full MOT for £485, has about 90k miles on it. I havent had chance to look at it yet, so not sure what condition it's in.

Stuff like that Carina probably does have more longevity, but I can't imagine they're great on fuel and tax. The Micra used to get about 45mpg and the Saxo should be about the same. We do a highish yearly mileage so fuel costs matter a fair bit.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 03/22/2015 at 13:24

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Oh, a Saxo? Interesting, what does it feel like? As long as it's not a Matiz, anyway ;)

Seems like a reasonable deal for the money.

As far as fuel and tax goes, the older cars are probably going to cost more to tax (although it's not so painful if you're under 1500cc) - is the Saxo zero-rated? - but they're not bad on fuel because they're nice and light. It depends what kind of driving you do, as much as anything, because on a long run the older Toyota will probably get better fuel economy due to better aero and a less-stressed engine. If I remember rightly, my old Carina E got 30/40/50, and that was achievable in the real world.

Of course, purchase price matters too, because a few hundred quid will buy a lot of petrol even at UK prices.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111 03/22/2015 at 13:28

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I haven't seen it yet so I'm not sure. It could be a complete shed for all I know haha. It's £145 to tax I believe which isn't so bad. He says on average the Saxo is giving him about 45mpg.