Please Stop Car Brand Elitism

"zeontestpilot" (zeontestpilot) 03/09/2015 at 08:00 • Filed to: Brand elitism, michigan

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I'm not gonna mention any scenarios or people, but this has happened a couple of times with friends and families here in Michigan, and it's really annoying. I mention a car, which isn't "from" the USA, and I get shot down for mentioning it. Well here is my response, hopefully it brings up some awareness on equality of car brands.

To begin with, I know this is Michigan; there's a lot of GM/Ford/Chrysler (the big 3) pride here, it's a given fact. But it doesn't mean other brands are off limits. In fact, I'm pretty sure most of the current U.S. brand cars were just assembled in the USA. They outsource a lot of stuff now a days. Look at my car, a '08 PT Cruiser, it's was assembled in Mexico. Can I even say it's a USA made car? It's more of a North America made car. And there are foreign brand car !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in the USA. If one of the big 3's car assembled in the US can be called American, then those foreign brand cars have the right too.

What it boils down to is this, it's a car. A life-less piece of metals and plastics combined together for use as transportation, fun, and/or recreation. So...why should brand elitism even exist? It's still a car in the end. Does it exist because the HQ of the brand isn't from your country of origin? Then is it safe to say you don't like it because of its nationality? Does that sound any better? That you are discriminating a brand purely because of its nationality? Because that sounds a lot like racism.

It's ok to be proud of your favorite brand, it really is. And it's ok to stick to your favorite brand, it's called brand loyalty. But don't bash a car because of it's country of origin, it's stupid. Just because a car wasn't made in the US, doesn't mean it's bad or inferior. It just means its not your 'cup of tea'.

In fact, if you dislike a company for any reason, you are denying yourself a chance to enjoy any of it's current, past, or future products. You can't just ignore a company outright. If you ignore Toyota because of the Prius' or Camry's, you're ignoring the 86 as well.

I'm going to take this a step farther and say, if you must hate something, don't hate the brand, hate the products of the brand. If they make a cruddy car, by all means hate upon it. Just leave the brand out of it. A prime example, a Chrysler PT Cruiser.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 08:03

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Rally2!

zeontestpilot > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 03/09/2015 at 08:05

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Actually, I saw a MR2 for the first time ever in the wild, on Saturday. It's what sparked this while post. By-golly it was beautiful though.

whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 08:31

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I'm quite surprised, I haven't found much of that at all in my generation. Some of the old-schoolers are quite steadfast about buying Big 3, but there are hardly any domestic cars around my college campus. And you hit on a good point there, car companies are so globalized these days it really doesn't matter what company they're from. I remember an article a while back saying that the top-ten most "American-Made" cars included half the Toyota lineup as well as a couple Hondas. These days, even American halo cars are outsources to Canada. (I'm looking at you, Ford GT.)

samssun > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 08:32

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"That you are discriminating a brand purely because of its nationality? Because that sounds a lot like racism." No it doesn't, it sounds like nation-alism. Nation is not race, and individual companies don't define a nation.

Pointing out that 99% of Toyotas are floaty barges for octogenarians is not an attack on the most honorribru Japanese people. It's calling out one company that's chosen to point its substantial engineering might at replicating Buick. That's it.

And the half dozen 86s running around don't grant legitimacy to the 10 million Camrys boring me to death. Perhaps if Camry money was funding something fun, but right now it's just going to bottom line, which makes Toyota great at being profitable and terrible at being an automaker.

Don't forget, the *newest* Supra in the country is over 17 years old now...wake me up when Toyota starts putting I6s, V8s, turbos, manuals, or even driveshafts into cars again.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 08:34

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It's funny you bring this up, I got talking cars with my boss on Friday and this subject came up. He was born and raised near Detroit and HATES American cars (Big 3). His reasoning is that A) he had American cars growing up and they were all shit (but also says they were all $500 beaters) and B) A lot of his relatives worked in the auto plants and all said how shoddily the cars are made. Now he only drives German cars.

I used to have 2 shipmates in the Navy who were both born and raised in Detroit and worked for GM. And they had the same mentality, one only bought German cars, and one only bought Japanese cars. They always told me "if you knew what went on in the factory and how your car was built, you wouldn't drive that Chevrolet piece of crap!" But I've owned a few Chevys and other GM products and never had major problems with any of them.

I think you're right, any kind of brand elitism is silly. I grew up in an all GM, anti-Ford household, but I have to admit that Ford makes great cars. Even my dad says it now, and he's the most die-hard Chevy person I know. Honestly, anymore, there are no bad manufactures. Each have high and low points, but everyone is making at least 1 or 2 really good cars.

zeontestpilot > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU 03/09/2015 at 08:44

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Exactly, the Big 3 cars are American purely in spirit. in Michigan, this just seems bad, and it's irritating. In fact, I would love to purchase a foreign car, to prove them wrong and to demonstrate how good it is.

yamahog > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 08:45

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Meanwhile, on the coasts, your average non-Jalop will rarely consider an American car, and the car people under 60 tend to be of the JDM bro crowd.

Dusty Ventures > samssun 03/09/2015 at 08:46

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Yaris WRC?

Sweet Trav > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 08:46

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So here's the one thing that I have to say about brand loyalty. Toyota/Subaru/Nissan... They are not paying out pensions to american workers. (while since the autopocalypse isn't true for the big three)

Union people dislike the foreign competitors because they are a threat to their way of life. They take the stand that those in manufacturing that aren't part of a union are unenlightened, they don't understand their value and as such they bring the value of labor down. In some respects I agree. They also look at people who buy foreign cars as not supporting union activity.

I do respect the engineering and some of the cars that Toyota, Subaru, Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, Kia make.

However, the UAW has done much good for me and my family to spit in their face and buy something that actively competes against their best interests. The wages my father made working for 30 years at GM helped put me through school the UAW through their dependent scholar ship program gave me $6000 towards my education.

The reason why you shouldn't buy foreign is simple. Buying non-union goods hurts the average middle class income.

http://robertreich.org/post/110555525…

http://robertreich.org/post/108489468…

whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 08:48

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Especially when American spirit tends to refer to prehistoric suspension designs, underpowered engines, and for the vast majority of cars, beige.

zeontestpilot > samssun 03/09/2015 at 08:54

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This is what I'm talking about though. Should we say Toyota has no good cars because of the Camry? I say, claim the Camry sucks and the 86 is worth the while.

Toyota, like every car brand, has changed over the years. A great example is Chevy. They aren't the same company they were in the '60s. But should we love them any less?

The majority of the public wants 'safe' cars, with good mpg. Which is what must car companies strive for. The companies are just giving them what they want...despite how sad it is.

zeontestpilot > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/09/2015 at 09:00

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Exactly. I prefer to look at the car itself, and not the brand. I guess I'm promoting brand tolerance. I mean, I'm pretty sure a MR2 would be more fun to drive than an Impala. On the flip side, a Focus SVT would be more fun than a PT Cruiser. It's just depends on what the car is, I think.

zeontestpilot > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU 03/09/2015 at 09:05

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Ha, but couldn't that be said about any car? There are always pros and cons.

zeontestpilot > Sweet Trav 03/09/2015 at 09:11

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Yeah, that adds a whole different degree to my argument, which unfortunately muddies the waters.

I'll be honest, I'm not too crazy about GM. My grandpa worked for them for years, in the AC Delco plant (I believe). He's retired now, but 7 some years after retirement, they decide to cut his benefits. He wasn't happy. He's my hero, I respect him. I'll still look at GM cars, but they aren't my first choice...

The Magic Rev Matching 4Runner > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 09:12

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My argument for buying Japanese cars (not that I particularly care, but it shuts baby boomers up) is that 100% of the money from my purchase went to an American, cause he was Mr. Craigslist.

zeontestpilot > yamahog 03/09/2015 at 09:14

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It's relative to where you live. But I feel like if a brand makes a good product, it should be recognized, not ignored.

zeontestpilot > The Magic Rev Matching 4Runner 03/09/2015 at 09:16

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It's true.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 09:22

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This post makes me feel old. I used to see them everywhere.....

zeontestpilot > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 03/09/2015 at 09:26

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Don't feel bad, I only discovered they existed within the past few weeks. Then I saw a real one! Not the same year as the one above. I had a gut feeling the people I was riding with wouldn't let me get closer...

Sweet Trav > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 09:58

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One could argue that if the US government had the same protectionist stance about the auto industry that Japan does, AC delco would have never broken away from GM, and would never have gone bankrupt...

Then again, if GM had built better cars, maybe the same could have happened.

The idea that we have a "free-market" is a joke.

zeontestpilot > Sweet Trav 03/09/2015 at 10:03

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Pretty much, yeah, :/

yamahog > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 10:04

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Yes, but everyone has a different definition of good :) for a lot of people in the mitten, myself included, being eligible for that sweet OEM discount is a major factor and we're pretty heavily incentivized to ignore other brands. Not that it makes it ok to be a jerk about something you've never even driven, of course.

zeontestpilot > yamahog 03/09/2015 at 10:14

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Very true. I find anything that would be fun to drive good, my neighbors consider anything with 4wd as good. Again, it's all relative, :).

nermal > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 10:42

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Personally, I have a Mexican truck and a German car. Both are great and serve their intended purposes quite well.

zeontestpilot > nermal 03/09/2015 at 11:06

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That's my thought too, have a car that serves a purpose, regardless of its make and what not.

whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 11:15

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This is very true.

feather-throttle-not-hair > zeontestpilot 03/09/2015 at 14:10

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Your first sentence is blowing my mind.

EVER?!?!

Michigan is a whole other world. I can only imagine your collection of American iron puts ours to shame here in Seattle. But good lord, I see an MR2 at least once every week or two.

BTW excellent post, I wholeheartedly agree. I like any car that is good. Sure, some brands produce fewer of those, but any and all such vehicles are to be celebrated.

Edit: Just for fun I craigslisted "MR2," excluding all dealership cars and going with private sellers only. There are 29 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen MR2's for sale in my area.

zeontestpilot > feather-throttle-not-hair 03/09/2015 at 14:56

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I haven't been into cars until later in my life, like for almost 2 years now I believe. The bright side is, I'm always learning something new, which is nice. Weeks ago I discovered the mr2 via Forza 4. Then I saw it in RL, where I reacted like a child visiting Wonkas chocolate factory.

Michigan is a whole 'nother world. Older, non-American cars are few and far between. Because "American pride". We do have a fantastic share of muscle cars, which is amazing in itself.

And thanks for the compliment! I worked hard to get my idea across just right.

I also did a CL search for the MR2, although I don't know the gens off the bat. There were 3 in all, none in my area either. 1 was a project, another was painted matte black and lowered, and the third was used as a DD and has been ice rallied.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/09/2015 at 15:16

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Funny enough, me and my Dad were just talking about a guy like that. He is the most money conscious person I've ever met, saved and saved until retirement, and now he is set. He worked for GM. He wouldn't even piss on one. As frugal as he was, he would not take a heavily discounted Chevy over anything else. His '97 F-150 has over 300k miles on it and looks brand new. Every GM we've had, save one, has went through at least 1 transmission before 100k miles, so now we understand.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 03/09/2015 at 19:48

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That's interesting, because we have have had almost all GMs and only ever had to replace one transmission and never had any major problems.
These are just the ones I can remember, we had an 86 Caprice Wagon and 88 Caprice Sedan before these that I don't know this history on.

1986 GMC S-15 Pickup - Was still running when we sold it at 250k. It had been totaled 3 times, each time my dad bought it off the insurance company and fixed it up with used parts. Engine and trans were still original and running pretty strong, except for the exhaust that rusted through and fell off.

1991 GMC Safari - We sold it to our mechanic with 214k miles and never needed anything besides oil changes. He sold it to a guy in his church with 250k miles, still no repairs. That guy shipped it to his parent's in Guatemala, last we hear it was at 350k miles and still no problems.

1998 GMC 2500 - This one had the nortorious 6.5L turbo diesels. By all accounts they go through injectors and PMDs every 50-60k miles and injector pumps every 75-100k miles. We're at 240k miles and only been through 1 injector pump and 2 PMDs. It's really been a champ for us.

1998 GMC Safari Cargo Van - This one had a transmission problem from new, had it replaced under warranty at 30k. After that it ran fine until it was totaled at 160k.

1999 GMC Savanna 3500 Cargo Van - This one needed intake manifold gaskets at around 95k. Ran until 215k when the motor died.

I think honestly, if you take good care of your car, you can get a lot of mileage out of them regardless of make.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/09/2015 at 19:57

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2002 Trailblazer, well maintained with records from P.O., including receipt for new trans at around 50k. 2nd went at 80k on us.

1984 Silverado K1500 w/ 305, trans went at 90k.

1987 K5 w/ 350, needed trans 30k after new trans install by P.O.(Paid for by)

1987 S10 Blazer, trans at 85k.

2005 Impala, ran flawlessly, but had an interior put together by dying chimpanzees. I.E. Headliner falling out by 30k miles, door panel armrest peeling by 50k.

Should be noted that all failures, except Trailblazer, were after trans flushes. So the moral of the story, shit holds them together. When you remove the shit, they fall apart.

samssun > zeontestpilot 03/10/2015 at 00:42

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No, we should say Toyota has no good cars because Toyota has no good cars (assuming good means enthusiast, not appliance). If the Camry were the exception, or being used to subsidize fun cars, you'd have a point...I'm fine with Lotus SUVs if they let Evoras exist. But Toyota just makes 15 different sized and shaped Camrys.

Don't care what kind of company Chevy was in the 60s because reminiscing about what they used to make is as pointless as hypothesizing about what Toyota could make. I'm not a brand cheerleader, so until Toyota actually makes a real performance car, they're irrelevant.