Indiscriminate License Plate Scanning

"With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username" (with-a-g) 03/05/2015 at 14:27 • Filed to: car non-crime

3

27

Earlier today I was doing some work just outside our office door in the parking lot. This scruffy-looking white econobox with peeling paint on its bumpers drove by, with four of these boxes (which my coworkers and I quickly deduced to be licence plate scanners) mounted to its trunk deck, pointing out to the rows of cars along either side. It cruised in and out of the lanes of the parking lot and then went on its way. No government plates, no uniformed driver.

Clearly this is large-scale indiscriminate license plate data gathering. Has anybody else seen this kind of thing? What are they doing with the data, and for that matter, who are, "they?" Is it a contractor to the police, selling them the data to look for expired tags? Outstanding warrants? Anything else? Nothing in particular? Our office parking lot is private property, so theoretically it's possible to drive on it with non-street legal vehicles. Are they cross-correlating sweeps from different dates and times to look for movement patterns of specific vehicles?

EDIT: I'm not saying that I think it's illegal or anything, but I'm wondering who is collecting this information and why.

Rico > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 14:29

1

Likely unmarked police vehicle looking for the things you described above. I highly doubt this tech is in the hands of civilians or contractors.

JDMatt > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 14:32

5

What the heck!? Private property! Even if law enforcement collected useful data to prosecute somebody, the case could get thrown out of court because the data was collected illegally. Do they even 4th amendment?

505Turbeaux > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 14:32

0

what state are you in? In Maine the law is pretty darn strict on its use unless it is for commercial vehicles

Any state, county or municipal law enforcement agency when providing public safety, conducting criminal investigations and ensuring compliance with local, state and federal laws. For purposes of this paragraph, an automated license plate recognition system may use only information entered by a law enforcement officer as defined by Title 17-A, section 2, subsection 17 and based on specific and articulable facts of a concern for safety, wrongdoing or a criminal investigation or pursuant to a civil order or records from the National Crime Information Center database or an official published law enforcement bulletin.

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes…

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 14:33

1

two words...

Data mining.

license plates are traceable to registered owners in the public domain. Geotagging a plate's location gives data inference as to who goes where...

That data can be sold to data aggregators. Most of it may just be lost in a sea of digital bits, but it may be used to establish trends.

It could be testing the technology, it could be trying to extrapolate contextual data about a business or other entity at that location, and who is in the vicinity of it, extrapolated from the registered owners of those plates, for directed marketing, or demographic audience research.

thebigbossyboss > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 14:33

1

That is disturbing man, that is really one area where canada in particular needs to update it's laws.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Rico 03/05/2015 at 14:36

0

I'll bet you can buy one online. If you can do anything with the data without having access to governmental databases or not is another question entirely. http://www.motorolasolutions.com/US-EN/Business…

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > 505Turbeaux 03/05/2015 at 14:36

0

This is in Arizona.

505Turbeaux > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 14:38

1

hmm yeah they do alot down there that is borderline legal from what I hear in the interest of public safety. Anyhow, this is what the scruffy white vans in Maine do on the highway

Ducky > JDMatt 03/05/2015 at 14:43

0

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-caree…

some states enforce law on private property that is "generally publicly accessible" like a parking lot.

JDMatt > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/05/2015 at 14:43

0

If government's cared enough to write a law against this type of physical data mining, the companys doing the data mining would already have enough data to sell by the time the law goes into effect.

dogisbadob > 505Turbeaux 03/05/2015 at 14:44

1

disturbing as fuck

JDMatt > Ducky 03/05/2015 at 14:46

0

Oh yeah that's right. I remember my AP government teacher saying that cops can patrol in parking lots because they sort of live in a grey area of private and public property.

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 14:50

1

not to rustle feathers but what's the concern? License plates are left out in the open in public view and the dmv has your vehicles registration tied to your address. What's the overall worry that they're being scanned/collected?

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 14:58

3

What I find to be funny is when citizens turn around and start monitoring government/police right back in exactly the same way... and the uppity/hypocritical reaction it causes in police/government people.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > JDMatt 03/05/2015 at 15:00

1

The government is data mining FAR, FAR more than any private entity... including license plate scanning on the roads... and in law enforcement vehicles. Not just offenders/targeted suspects... but everyone in view of the cameras... traffic cams, speed cameras/mobile radar speed traps, and stop light cameras.

License plates are publicly visible, and are considered public domain, especially anywhere other than the owner's garage.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/05/2015 at 15:04

3

My dad calls in all government vehicles being used for personal use.

Sweet Trav > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 15:06

0

Strictly speaking, you have no right to privacy in a public place. This would allow for them to take pictures of damned near anything they want...

coconut > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 15:33

1

Those mudder effers. I have also seen "ADOT Enforcement" vehicles plying the lots at my work, doing what I imagine is something similar.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 03/05/2015 at 15:43

0

Who does he call?

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/05/2015 at 15:49

1

Depends on the car, if he sees a city/fed etc. My dad has a law degree, he isn't a lawyer specifically, he works with land rights and resources, but he hates government workers using our tax dollars to do personal things.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 16:20

0

Bounty hunters run them to find and license plates that match up to individuals with outstanding warrants. Most police departments can't afford to run them as those things run around $13k per set. And all of the PD's I know that run them, have them mounted to fully marked patrol cars, usually one of their newer traffic units driven by a more senior officer. They don't give those to the rookie with the beater Impala that should've been deadline 20k miles ago.

Gizmo - The Only Good Gremlin, but don't feed me after Midnight > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 16:24

0

Its my understanding that if the data is collected (by whomever) it has to be sent to the national database. Can you imagine what kind of history they have on any individual car and for how long? SCARY...

Some of the small townships near me have cars recording everyday. Mostly I notice them during rush hour on the busiest roads. I have a serious problem with them logging my movements like this. Its only a matter of time till this type data is used improperly.

Not to mention, I've had two encounters already where the "system" proved it can't be trusted. The first was a red light camera ticket from Chicago that took 9 months to clear up (I sent them proof that my car was in Dallas that day and they eventually admitted Illinois uses the same alphanumerics on regular plates and handicap plates, i.e., two plates with the same numbers and one has a handicap symbol). The second was a bolo on a stolen black Porsche, but my XLR was pulled over for it. I asked the officer if she ran my plates and if my car looked like a damn Porsche. I was detained for 15 minutes until another patrolman drove up, recognized my car, and let me go.

nermal > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 16:40

0

Aren't the ones scanning rows of parked cars looking for people with unpaid parking tickets and whatnot?

Basically they're out looking for people to put a boot on.

DipodomysDeserti > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 17:11

0

Where in AZ? There is a bunch of FBI/MCSO coop stuff in north Phoenix. I see them doing weird stuff all the time.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > DipodomysDeserti 03/05/2015 at 18:21

0

Yep. North Phoenix. There is some kind of place that does continuing education classes for law enforcement nearby; the parking lot is often full of cruisers from jurisdictions all over the state here for a week-long class. It's a few miles from the new FBI building, too. Still, I'm not convinced any of that is related to this event.

DipodomysDeserti > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 03/05/2015 at 18:27

0

There are a bunch of fusion centers in that area. They're cooperatives between the FBI/DHS/MCSO. Some of them deal with internet security and monitoring. What's interesting is that there are also medical marijuana "factories" in the same area. The company that used to run all the highway speeding cameras was also located right on Pinnacle Peak near the I-17. they're still there and I'm guessing the camera van may have been related to them.

Rainbow > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 03/09/2015 at 13:40

1

A few days ago I watched as a cop parked his cruiser in the fire lane to go by groceries. He came out at the same time I did, so I told him how cool I think it is that he's allowed to do that. He just glanced at me and then drove off.