The Legacy of the Ford GT is Determined on the Podium

"Yossarian" (ajmobile) 03/03/2015 at 16:29 • Filed to: None

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So now we've found out the price, and have most of the specs, all that's left is for the GTE spec car to be unveiled and see how it performs. I think the performance of the GTE car is going to determine how the GT is perceived in the automotive community.

It would justify the use of the Ecoboost V6. I don't think there's any other car with a V6 in the $400,000 price range. It's going to be a legitimate gripe with some who can afford it. Plus the word "Ecoboost".

It would justify the price. The last GT was known to punch above its weight class. Instead of paying $150,00 for a Gallardo or F430, you got something with much more presence, that could contend with the Murceilagos and 599s of the world. With the price now matching its competitors, the Ford badge will come into play. If you can say the GT beat everything else at the races, then the badge doesn't matter as much

I honestly think this could turn out like the LFA if the racing program doesn't do well. The LFA was, and still is an amazing car, but it's not going to be remembered for its merits, but for its faults – the long development cycle, the price, the performance for the dollar. The old GT brought something new from Ford, a revival of sorts. In comparison the new GT doesn't feel as special, and will needs some pedigree to back up its claims.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Yossarian 03/03/2015 at 16:40

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Spot on. I suppose its an interesting path to take by Ford, this car packs a lot of punch and technological advancement, but with that comes great risk. I'm firmly in the V8 camp, and frankly think they could have made a much safer bet by banking on their heritage, putting a V8 in it, and adjusting the price down to about <$250k. They would have sold cars hand over fist. So I'm hoping for their sake they crush it at LeMans and in racing in general because I think that's the only hope they have to justify this car.

TopSirloin > Yossarian 03/03/2015 at 16:49

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I think it's a bit expensive.. but trying to fit it into the same niche the old GT occupied as being a "budget supercar" is all wrong. That GT was cheaper for plenty of reasons. While it was as fast as cars twice it's price, what compromises were made elsewhere? This GT isn't going to be cheaper, because it competes with it's rivals in more categories than just speed.

I think companies are seeing that the twin-turbo v6 can be a great platform, Glickenhaus for example choosing it for his SCG car. For Ferrari, high-revving 12 cylinders is part of their schtick. I don't think having a TT V6 needs to feel "cheap" for other companies. It should be clear to anyone buying one of these that this may have the same number of turbos and number of cylinders as the V6 in the F150, but it is far far from the same engine. Using "Ecoboost" is just a marketing ploy that brings credibility to the program for their civilian cars.

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > Yossarian 03/03/2015 at 17:13

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BOP will probably heavily favor the Ford in it's first year leading to easy victories. Think of all the headlines/$$ race organizers would see with lots of Ford GT victories. It's what happened with the 911s when their factory team returned last year too.

The road GT, even with its stupid price, will have no problem selling every copy Ford makes.

But you are correct that that has little to do with its legacy, which has started off a little shaky.

Maddawg > Yossarian 03/03/2015 at 17:27

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Even if it does win races I think it's going to be a tough sell, after all the Corvette C7.R has been doing well in GTLM and LMGTE series, and you can get the next closest, street-legal version, the Z06 starting just under $80k, I haven't seen any reports of the Ford GT's weight, but I heard around 600hp, the C7 Z06 weighs 3582 lbs, has 650hp/650lbft and I'd imagine the power curves look meatier on the Z06's 6.2 V8 compared to the 3.5 V6's (due to it's much larger displacement) the only place for the Ford to really best the Chevy is in the exclusivity (which a 250 units per year, it will) style and weight departments, which has yet to be seen.

There's no way this car will really be worth $400k in performance, but to honest, almost no car priced at $400k is worth that in performance, they make it up in brand name and exclusivity, winning races will certainly help the GT's future, but even with wins, will the world's super wealthy fork over that kind of money for a Ford, even if they're only making 250 per year? My bet is they have some trouble finding buyers for all of the cars, which only gets more difficult year after year and production ends after around 3 years.

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > TopSirloin 03/03/2015 at 17:27

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You make a lot of good points, but I'll offer a friendly counter reply with a few more ;)

~$250k-$300k is competing with its rivals. $400k is WAY more than its competition.

Glickenhaus chose from racing engines already available. Unlike Ford, he is not willing to develop/invest in his own engine for his race car. He also wants to race in a class where very small displacement+turbos are the norm.

Exactly like Ferrari's v12s, V8s are part of Ford's schtick.

Like the Corvette Viper and previous GT, the engines roots will always point to the most plebeian car that shares a similar block. Whether this is correct thinking or not, it will be the common opinion of the unlearned.

Ecoboost is just a marketing ploy.

In the end we'll all just have to wait and see! :)

TopSirloin > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast 03/03/2015 at 17:46

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All good counterpoints!

As far as the V8 thing goes, when I don't necessarily think technologically advanced, racing pedigree V8's. I guess that's just splitting hairs though. For GTE, Ford had the choice of a NA V8 with a displacement cap, or a TT V6 with a displacement cap, correct?

I did think 400k was too much.. but maybe we're misinterpreting where Ford plans on slotting this thing? The 918 and P1 are far more expensive, but are also more powerful and appear more technologically advanced, with the KERS-like systems and battery usage.. Maybe Ford is gunning more for something like them and less like a Gallardo? I feel like there's still plenty we don't know about it. Chiefly, how fast it will be. It may perform like the P1 and 918 and people will look at it like a screaming hot deal because it's only $400k compared to $650k+..

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > TopSirloin 03/03/2015 at 19:34

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I believe you are correct about the displacement cap. I'm wondering if this doesn't go like old turbo F1 or desiels at LeMans, where the rules or engineering focus tend to favor a certain technology until everyone is doing it or has to do it to be successful. It will be interesting to see how they balance the performance between NA and forced induction. Hopefully they can keep them even so we can keep the variety of cars out there.

True, we have no idea of performance. Today the enthusiast community is in the deepest forms of speculation here regarding the new GT, haha. I would be absolutely floored if the GT can perform like the newest La McPosrchararri supercars out there. It would be incredible for Ford (and America) if it edged them out, even with the horsepower and technology deficits, but I wouldn't touch that bet.

I have my fingers crossed, but worry Ford may be reaching a little too far with this one. That being said, from a business standpoint, I'm sure they will sell fine, the nostalgic name alone practically gaurantees that. It just isn't grabbing my heartstrings like the last ones did. :/

TopSirloin > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast 03/03/2015 at 19:51

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I think it's best direct competitor could be the 650S.. and I don't think it will compete with the P1 or The Ferrari The Ferrari.. but I bet it gets pretty close.. maybe close enough to justify it's price tag.

If you're gonna make cars that cost that much money, you've got to start somewhere. Without Ferrari's ridiculous heritage and history of building and selling ridiculously expensive cars, would they be able to pull off selling you a car for more than a million dollars? They've earned the ability to sell shit that's insanely expensive... which is why a lot of eyebrows raise when small, one-off companies all of a sudden have a new hypercar to sell you for $650,000, like that orange thing that tried to kill Jeremy on Top Gear a few years ago. If you succeed, you get your badge to sell cars that cost more than houses. Koenigsegg got plenty of strange looks at first, now we aren't surprised by a 1.8$mm Regera.

I know Ford is a mega-corporation and Koenigsegg is a small, low production, high quality company, but the example stands.

The last GT was pretty.. downright gorgeous.. Because of what it was. It was beautifully simple, it was nostalgic and it was great, but it was not an innovator. It was not on the cutting edge. It was not "engineered to keep company with the exotics", as Ford proclaimed about the new GT. It may have kept up with them on a track, but it was not on the front lines defining what it meant to be a supercar. This GT.. This GT will keep the Italians honest, and will give Ze Germans pressure when it comes to precision. I feel like it's going to have real LIFE to it, and I'm never going to be able to drive it..