Compromise...

"505Turbeaux" (505turbeaux) 02/26/2015 at 13:22 • Filed to: None

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So a friend of mine is driving from Maine to New Orleans next weekend in his 22X,000 mile Volvo V70 base wagon. Decent car, looks like a regular old Maine "beater with a heater", but runs well. However he was not aware you had to have your timing belts changed on these cars, like it is very important. I checked through his records, and it was last done at 106K, and the belt is TIRED on visual inspection. He does not have any clue how to work on cars, but I said I would help him out if he stripped it down to the belt since I dont have 4 hours to get it done before then. I would do the water pump and t-belt, spin the engine a couple times to verify, and he could reassemble, armed with youtube and the interwebs. How bad is this going to go, and should I just shuffle stuff around to do the whole job myself?

bob and john > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 13:27

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if eh doesnt have a clue, dont let him. if the car was new, maybe, but i can see him breaking clips and losing important bolts and stuff

My citroen won't start > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 13:29

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It is going to be like handing this to a 5 year old.

505Turbeaux > bob and john 02/26/2015 at 13:29

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not too much for him to break besides the liner in the wheel well. I would just have him grab 10 pickle jars to hold bolts to save the other part. I am sure he doesnt have the ok "this bolt goes in that hole" intuition I have

WhyWagonIfNotWagonFast > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 13:34

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I did this to an 850 a few years ago minus the water pump. It was honestly pretty painless as long as you find the timing marks correctly. The water pump is the wild card. bust a bolt in the block and easy goes out the window.

505Turbeaux > WhyWagonIfNotWagonFast 02/26/2015 at 13:36

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yeah, this is true. I am not sure he is going to keep it much longer than this trip, so maybe I skip that. Though in the 20 or so whiteblocks I have done a t belt on, I havent had a bolt stuck

Pilot of the Clown Shoe > My citroen won't start 02/26/2015 at 13:42

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I think a 5 year old would love that. There's no chance in hell they'd build the model according to the instructions, but they'd totally dig having SO MANY BRICKS.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 13:42

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It took me and a friend around 12 hours of work split over two days to do the timing belt of my Subaru, a longitudinally mounted car which has easy access to the belt, needing to only remove the radiator. In your transversely mounted Volvo, where you all but have to go through the wheel well...this is likely a two day job unless you have the factory tools and have done it before.

EDIT: read it more closely. To be specific, the assembly and reassembly is the hard part on a transverse car. So yeah...your friend may have issues.

505Turbeaux > Aaron M - MasoFiST 02/26/2015 at 13:48

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done about 20 of them, F/R mounted ones I can crack out in 2.5h, transverse something like 4h all in. I actually dont give a shit how much time HE spends on it, because it will be bare for me to go in and set the belt. Also with a lift I have done the 2.5 Subies with the cam seals in 4 hours on a bad day. What took you guys so long, too much beer and not enough working?

Aaron M - MasoFiST > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 13:51

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Broke the driver's side cam gear...in part because we were doing it in 20 degree weather. Now that I recall how early in the first day we broke the gear, I'm probably overestimating. That said, the cam gear would not come off...we ended up welding an old socket onto the bolt to get enough torque.

Also, if your buddy swears that the best way to time a DOHC Subaru is to c-clamp the cam gears together...don't believe him.

My citroen won't start > Pilot of the Clown Shoe 02/26/2015 at 13:53

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A 5 year old would probably eat some of the bricks (I have no experience with children whatsoever)

505Turbeaux > Aaron M - MasoFiST 02/26/2015 at 13:54

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oh my goodness that will do it! Also don't do work like that if you cant get it to around 40-50 degrees. 20 is a recipe for disaster (not that I havent done it, I put an engine in a friends Imapa in 10 degree weather, fucker never even paid me for it either).Hahaha I do not envy you that day

Aaron M - MasoFiST > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 13:59

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Yeah...I need to do my struts in the next couple weeks...I'll be in an enclosed garage, but the temp will still be 40 at best. At least I've done struts before, that was my first attempt at a timing belt.

OPPOsaurus WRX > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 14:05

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i bet he can disassemble it ok if he has some basic skill. You'll have 15 bolts and an unidentifiable yet important looking metal piece left over in end

505Turbeaux > Aaron M - MasoFiST 02/26/2015 at 14:09

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ah good. You have a halfway professional spring compressor or just the old claw style ones?

RallyWrench > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 14:15

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What year? On the VVT engines you have to be careful with the cam sprockets. The timing will look on, but if a sprocket is out of phase it'll throw a code once they advance with oil pressure. Super easy job otherwise. There are different length bolts for the water pump and it's good to replace them too. If you want the procedure I can email you, but it's nothing you can't knock out easily.

505Turbeaux > RallyWrench 02/26/2015 at 14:20

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I have done a ton of whiteblocks, this is a 2000, so I didnt think they were VVT's just yet. Honestly though, I have only done them <98 so maybe you should refresh my memory. I think in 00 they were barely DI, werent there V70's with distributors for a while too?

Carl (@stuffcarlsays) > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 14:20

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My god, do it yourself... #savetheP80s

This is what I envisioned when you suggested that he tear it down for you:

505Turbeaux > Carl (@stuffcarlsays) 02/26/2015 at 14:28

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lol probably so

RallyWrench > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 14:38

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Yep, '98 was the last year before DI, and they went to single VVT 2000, I think. Volvo is really screwy about production changes though, so if it's an early build it might not have it. I just checked Alldata and Mitchell to make sure I'm not remembering wrong, and each shows procedures for non-VVT and single VVT for 2000, with a note that they could be double VVT, but I'm almost positive that came around '02.

uofime > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 14:39

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just have him find the online guide, he can send it to you, you can review it maybe add any notes you think were missing and important (you said you've done it a few times) they should be fine. If something goes weird hopefully they have the sense to stop, send a picture and call you. At which point you can hopefully walk them through solving the issue or if they cannot you can go help later.

505Turbeaux > RallyWrench 02/26/2015 at 14:45

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if this helps you help me, here is his vin number. Decodes to engine B5254T12 which could probably be had in straight or VVT1 flavors EDIT: actually that makes no sense because it def isnt a turbo. Stupid vin decoders

505Turbeaux > uofime 02/26/2015 at 14:46

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probably about how it is going to go

uofime > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 14:54

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Its good to make them to it, learning by doing is the best way. Their next car will have a timing belt too most likely.

you should supervise but make them do the actual belt swap portion too. With a cam lock and some white out its pretty straightforward.

505Turbeaux > uofime 02/26/2015 at 15:00

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totally some white out is in order. Cam locks, nahhhhhhh athough I should use one so he sees what the deal is

505Turbeaux > RallyWrench 02/26/2015 at 15:01

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I actually visually inspected the belt the other day and had to think back. It was straight cam gears on those, not the bulbous ones of the VVT. Phew

uofime > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 15:12

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haha, while not strictly necessary I'm glad I spend the 30$ to get one when I did mine. The belt did not want to stay stretched, lined up with the marks and slide on. Also it was the first time I'd done it and I was paranoid as fuck!

RallyWrench > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 15:52

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Piece of cake then, carry on.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > 505Turbeaux 02/26/2015 at 16:07

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Claw ones, but substantial ones with safety keepers...the ones where you have a pair of external compressors as opposed to the internal claw one. My old struts have lowering springs on them, but I'm probably going to put the stock springs back on...the aesthetics just aren't worth it in a Boston winter.

505Turbeaux > Aaron M - MasoFiST 02/26/2015 at 16:10

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yeah aint that the truth. As much ground clearance as you can get this year

wallaby13 > 505Turbeaux 02/27/2015 at 09:25

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The hardest part about the P80 (850, V70, S70, C70 ...) is getting the belt off. There's a nub on the oil pump that sticks out and makes slipping the belt off the bottom, past the oil pump and crank pulley, a bitch. It can be done, but I think the service manuals tell you to remove the pulley with an impact and puller. Personally I've done 4 of these belts and never pulled the pulley off. Just cut the old belt off, remove the metal guard ( 2x 10mm bolts) and wiggle it on.

Other key steps, replace all the pulleys, belts fail because the pulleys seize. Check timing 2, 3, 4 times, and clean the mating surface of the water pump well. Like get that cleaner than a baby's bottom. One more thing. Make sure when re-installing the water pump, that you don't get the plastic guard pinched between the two mating surfaces.

Personally I would be there for the whole deal, or at least from the middle to end (re-install) and make sure it's done right, else you'll have bent valves, and possibly bent rods. Then you'll feel even worse for your buddy. If you can't do that then maybe pop back over after he is done the install. I've done 4 of these things and I'm usually off by 1 tooth the first time.

It also helps to have various sizes of 10mm and 12mm sockets in both 1/4" and 3/8" as space is limited.

505Turbeaux > wallaby13 02/27/2015 at 09:30

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yeah I remember that holdup, but have never, on the 20 5's or the 6's I have done pulled the crank pulley. Actually never done one without doing the tensioner and idler pulleys either. I usually make 2 revolutions to check and make sure nothing is bound up and the pulleys align and call it good, but I do think I will go back afterwards before he fires it up to double check. I am surprised he hasn't broken that belt yet actually