Why did they have to go. 

"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo) 02/10/2015 at 18:35 • Filed to: None

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Edit: was the Saturn Astra any good? I love the way they look but I know nothing about them actually.

Nerd-Vol > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/10/2015 at 18:37

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Because GM has a habit of killing off a car as soon as it gets good. Think about the fiero.

Sam > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/10/2015 at 18:50

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I don't know if the Saturn Astra was good, but I've always liked the way they looked. I even considered a hatchback version instead of my 530i Wagon.

As Du Volant > Sam 02/10/2015 at 18:51

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The Astra looked so good, Jeremy Clarkson ate his own hair.

duurtlang > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/10/2015 at 18:53

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The Saturn Astra was an Americanized version of the previous generation Opel Astra, just like the Buick Verano is a (somewhat stronger) Americanized version of the current generation 2009+ Opel Astra. From a European perspective it's a very average compact that doesn't really stand out in anything, whether positive or negative. Obvious competitors: Ford Focus, Peugeot 308, VW Golf, Renault Megane, Mazda 3. I would take all of those before the Astra, and yes I've driven a current-gen Astra.

The perspective on these cars might be different in the US.

GhostZ > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/10/2015 at 18:56

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Because losing millions on marketing failing brands and billions restructuring their management just to save a few mediocre-selling captive imports is not worth the jalop points.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > duurtlang 02/10/2015 at 19:00

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if anything they're at least more rare here. I just looked for one for sael locally and only found one. In about a 300 mile/500km radius.

Textured Soy Protein > duurtlang 02/10/2015 at 19:01

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I wouldn't quite say the Verano is "based on the Astra." If we want to be pedantic, the first car built on the Delta II platform which underpins both the Astra and the Verano was the Chevy Cruze.

(Also the Astra sedan came after the Verano, which came after the Chinese-market Buick Excelle GT.)

AdverseMartyr > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/10/2015 at 19:09

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The GTO styling was just a little wrong for the time. It came off looking sort of...cheap, and toy-ish (for lack of a better word.)

It was one of those designs that was 90+% right, but lacked that last little bit necessary to gain acceptance. Maybe it was fine with a different badge, but GTO just conjured a certain image and presence that wasn't quite there.

Steve in Manhattan > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/10/2015 at 19:10

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Because badge engineering and proliferation of brands. Chevrolet/Pontiac/Oldsmobile/Buick/Cadillac/GMC/Hummer/Saturn ... and that's just here in US America. And I might have missed a few. There was a time when a Buick was a Chevy was a Pontiac was a Caddy was an Olds. Chevy trucks and GMC trucks - the only difference was a trim level. The Sky? Also a Pontiac. GM had to clean house or it was going bye-bye. Enthusiasts did not show up to buy that car or the GTO. Now? We have to buy the SS, or it will also go away.

TopSirloin > GhostZ 02/10/2015 at 19:17

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Thank you. Nail on the head, sir.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > AdverseMartyr 02/10/2015 at 19:20

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It does look like a 90's Civic a bit.

duurtlang > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/10/2015 at 19:21

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My whole country can very easily fit within that 500 km radius, and I found 15 Teslas for sale on the first site I visited. To be fair, 2 of those 15 are Tesla Roadsters.

duurtlang > Textured Soy Protein 02/10/2015 at 19:28

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True, however the Astra hatch and wagon easily pre date the Verano. The Astra hatch (5-door) and wagon even have the same dash, front green house, door panels, you name it as the Verano. The Cruze, while sharing the platform, doesn't share any of this.

Here's a comparison. Please ignore the front bumper and the body behind the rear doors.

2008 Cruze

2009 Astra

2011 Verano

2008 Cruze

2009 Astra

2011 Verano

I hope you see where I'm getting this from.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > duurtlang 02/10/2015 at 19:31

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How does that work? like is leaving your country a big deal? Like here it's a big deal to drive into Mexico or even Canada. You have to have a passport and be careful about what you can and can't bring over a border. But at the same time I have to drive about 500km to get to Canada, and about 2400km to get to Allende Mexico which is only about 50km from where my parents live (they live in Eagle Pass, Texas). The US is Huge so it be so weird for me to live in a tiny country.

PS9 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/10/2015 at 19:37

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Saturn: They don't exist anymore because they didn't offer anything Buick didn't.

Pontiac: Rebadged Chevys. Later rebadged Holdens, which might have worked if that was the plan from the beginning. But it wasn't.

ranwhenparked > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/10/2015 at 20:03

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Well, Saturn was a failed experiment from the start. Even when they did sell good cars, they never had anything that wouldn't have sold better as a Chevy, Pontiac, or Buick.

Pontiac, on the other hand, probably did have a justifiable place as an American Mazda, but GM was broke and had to use their limited resources in the most responsible ways and spending millions more turning around a brand that had already had a fortune thrown into turning it around was hard to spin.

Plus, you have to remember that GM's brand structure was created when they owned over half the US market. With their share now under 18%, they just don't have enough business to spread around for that many nameplates.

Textured Soy Protein > duurtlang 02/10/2015 at 21:51

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Yeah, the Verano is more similar to the Astra. It was first introduced as the Buick Excelle GT in China, then renamed Verano for the US, then given a more Astra-like front end for Europe to make the Astra Sedan.

JasonStern911 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/11/2015 at 00:15

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I honestly had no idea the Saturn Astra existed before this post. Not bashing the car - but that's probably the cause of GM killing Saturn. Same with Pontiac towards the end. Not that it's really the loss people make it out to be. Saturn was just rebadging Opels and Pontiac rebadging Holdens towards the end. Unlike in the good ole days, when Pontiac was rebadging... Chevy's.

duurtlang > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/11/2015 at 04:47

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The German border is a 30 minutes drive from my home. There's a sign on the side of the road indicating that you're entering Germany, and suddenly everything is in German. That's it. It's probably similar to moving from state to state in the US.

This is the border crossing I'm talking about, with a complimentary classic BMW on the left. You can see the sign on the right side of the road in the back ground. Crossing this bridge means you're in Germany. Due to privacy legislation in Germany there's no Google streetview in Germany, so you can't move forward from this point in streetview.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

desertdog5051 > Steve in Manhattan 02/11/2015 at 06:15

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And go away it should. It is a poor looking excuse for a performance car. I think I have seen a total of 3 on the road. IMO.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > duurtlang 02/11/2015 at 13:58

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Wow it's crazy to think of moving from one country to another that easily.

duurtlang > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/11/2015 at 14:06

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There's a reason for this though, we moved our borders outward.

Steve in Manhattan > desertdog5051 02/11/2015 at 19:45

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I haven't seen one in the metal. My cousin gets anything in the GM lineup he wants (big shot) and I've been urging him to try the car. Usually he just gets another Lucerne.