Long-Term Quality: Acura's Pulp Fiction

"Steven Lang" (StevenLang) 02/03/2015 at 10:30 • Filed to: None

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Legend. NSX. Integra. It's hard to come up with another trio of cars that offered more appeal to a near-new nameplate. Acura was on a roll back in 1990 thanks to Soichiro Honda's stewardship and J.D. Power's assessments of their initial quality. But then...

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

...the powers that be developed an incurable case of Lexus envy.

When people bought a Lexus back then, they didn't say they owned an ES250, an ES300 or an LS400. They simply said, "I drive a Lexus."

While the allure of saying, "I drive a Legend", or "I drive an Integra" is not lost by enthusiasts like us. The upwardly mobile professionals of the Clinton Era often liked to say the brand before the name.

"I drive a BMW."

"I drive a Mercedes."

"I drive an Infiniti."

They all flow better when they roll of your tongue than, "I drive an ACK-kew-ra."

Acura gradually destroyed the social equity of their popular all-star lineup.. First by renaming the Legend the RL and then by neglecting it for nearly 20 years. The NSX died the demographic dance of death as did most sports and luxury coupes of the 1990's. Only a chosen few, like the NSX, spilled over into the Y2K era with a last gasp of minor face-lifts and ever-so-slight performance upgrades.

Finally, the Integra morphed into the RSX which was an enticingly wonderful creation. But the aging populations of the United States, and Japan, ensured that Acura's last sports coupe survivor would be the final swan song of Acura's former glory. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

This is the Acura story that every enthusiast hears in varying forms at one point or another. Legend, Integra, NSX were great. Acura's current line-up "Zzzzzzz!!!!"

But that's not the truth — at all.

If you squint really hard at this graph, or !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , you'll find two surprises. The first is that when it comes to vehicles traded-in with over 180,000 miles — Honda is ranked 1st out of 38.

And Acura is barely ahead of Lexus and Toyota at #2.

This triumph over Lexus and Toyota can't be explained by Acura's mechanical reliability. While Acura has some impressive performers, not a single Lexus model has a greater chance than 1 in 19 of having an engine or transmission issue. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! may be an aberration. But it's based on superb engineering from chrome grille to tailgate.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Does Acura even remotely compete with this consistent level of quality? No! Nein! Nyet!

Acura was exposed to an even greater proportion of downright lousy transmissions than Honda from 1998 thru 2003. While only V6 Accords with automatics and Honda Odysseys received these slipping, leaking, gear chomping shifters of death, the majority of Acura's line-up was not so lucky.

Eric The Car Guy pretty much nails what professional car buyers think whenever they see a Y2K era Acura TL, CL, and MDX go through the auction block.

One final note on Honda/Acura transmissions concerns the V6 transmissions from '99 to '03. I'll be honest; these transmissions had a very high failure rate. It doesn't matter how you maintain them, it seems they are doomed to fail. If you're considering one of these vehicles, have it checked out to see if the transmission had been replaced in the past, and even then be skeptical. I was putting in two and sometimes three of these transmissions a day for a while. That should tell you something about their reliability.

We are finding the exact same issues with transmissions from this time period. In fact, Acura models equipped with automatics and six-cylinders tend to be far worse than the industry average from 1995 all the way thru 2003, and slightly worse than average for 2004 and 2005

Nick Lariviere has highlighted the severity of this issue on each clickable graph to the left.

The black baseline for each year is the industry average for transmission issues. The industry average in 1999, for example was just over 10%. For Acura, this defect rate is nearly 30%. Keep in mind this is after a transmission recall was already issued.

Audi, the brand we highlighted yesterday, has nowhere near the level of transmission defects than Acura during the same time period. Although the time period from 1995 thru 1997 is far worse than average.

And BMW, a brand that tends to get some flak for expensive and complex repair issues, has transmissions that typically far outperform Acura. If you !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , you'll find that nearly every BMW model except the 745i has a reasonable to low defect rate.

So why are nearly one in four Acuras in this study kept for the long haul if so many have pretty nasty transmission issues and, arguably, not as much prestige as most other luxury brands?

Age resistant interiors

Fewer decontenting issues than the competition.

And designs that have remained contemporary without being too dated for a mainstream audience.

There is one regrettable exception to that Acura rule, but it represents less than 10% of Acura's overall sales in North America.

The Acura RL, the Avalon of the Acura line. It may be more boring and conservative than a 1600 page paper from the Heritage Foundation, but it still has a nice interior that ages well.

Just nice enough for the non-enthusiasts among us who don't follow the new car market to keep driving them. Which helps Acura secure an overall ranking of....

7th. Feel free to click the graph, and you will find that Infiniti, GMC, Chevrolet, Honda, Toyota, and Lexus are all ranked higher overall. GM's full-sized trucks and SUVs help GMC and Chevy move into the upper echelon while Acura, thanks to one lousy transmission that never quite got sorted out, pulls Acura down to a less than Legendary ranking.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 10:38

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I've said this elsewhere, but I loved my '88 Legend 5-speed sedan...

Milky > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 10:39

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+1 for image source.

dogisbadob > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 10:43

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FUCK hotlink protection!

505Turbeaux > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 10:45

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please watch the ninja top reposting

dogisbadob > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 10:46

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Honda should've imported the Euro Civic hatch as the Acura Integra, and the ILX could be the Integra sedan.

The (US) Accord could be more luxurious and sold as the Vigor/Saber/Inspire (both coupe and sedan), and the RLX can be renamed the Legend.

The TLX can be decontented a bit (to fit Honda's standard DX/LX/EX mold) and sold as the Honda Accord globally. And available as a wagon, too. And bring back the Prelude.

As Du Volant > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 10:48

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That's thirty minutes away. I'll be there in ten.

Steven Lang > dogisbadob 02/03/2015 at 10:52

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I'll try to find an alternative

GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 11:01

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Love the 6-speed in my M3...it is estimated that it can take up to 800hp before it requires modification.

Coty > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 11:02

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Ok. Now what?

Steven Lang > 505Turbeaux 02/03/2015 at 11:08

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I pulled it due to formatting issues. I'm still new to this Kinja world.

Textured Soy Protein > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 11:15

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The one you linked was a TL/CL dash anyway. Here's an RL.

Steven Lang > Textured Soy Protein 02/03/2015 at 11:19

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Thanks! Fixed. The first RL posting had a hotlink protection. First one I've ever seen. But I'm still pretty new to this Kinja world.

Textured Soy Protein > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 11:22

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I'm a google image search wizard.

Steven Lang > Textured Soy Protein 02/03/2015 at 11:26

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I guess that's the modern day version of being a 1970s pinball wizard.

HammerheadFistpunch > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 11:35

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Love me that dubbed over nsx.

55_mercury > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 11:51

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Anyone want to gander as to why GM is so much higher on the quality index than Chevrolet, especially since GMCs are simply Chevys with a different badge and more leather seats and doo-dads?

Steven Lang > 55_mercury 02/03/2015 at 11:56

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GMC is an all truck and SUV line-up. Chevrolet has the unfortunate honor of rebadging Daewoos and shucking Cobalts and Corsicas to the masses.

Feel free to click on the links before for your answer. All the best!

http://tradeinqualityindex.com/reports/Chevro…

http://tradeinqualityindex.com/reports/GMC.ht…

Brumos59-2 > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 11:56

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The reason more Hondas and Acuras are being traded in with higher mileage is that the people that bought them are keeping them as long as possible because Honda and Acura have nothing whatsoever that interests them now.

Snooder87 > 55_mercury 02/03/2015 at 11:57

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Because GMC doesn't sell cobalts.

The problem with Chevy is that their shitty sedans and compacts drag down the generally rather good trucks and SUVs. GMC doesn't have that problem.

CarlitoBenito > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 11:59

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I think their issues with the transmission continued until about 2007, as the early 3rd Gen TLs (2004-2006) had some issues with transmissions. Mine loved to slip. Some blamed the pressure sensors (which I replaced, twice) and some blamed the quality of Honda's fluid, ATF-Z1, which has now been replaced with a full synthetic version (ATF-DW1, I believe).

Acura actually did an overhaul of the design of that 5-speed to handle the torque from the 3.5 and 3.7L J-series V6s and was put in the 2007-2008 non-Type S TLs, despite their engine remaining 3.2Ls. Those transmissions do hold up better, but can oveheat on Honda Odysseys, again from the poor quality fluid and extra weight.

Another thing that some owners neglect on the J-Series is the need for a valve adjustment at 105K miles. It's vital for proper VTEC operation.

Ash78, voting early and often > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:01

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It's important to note that trannies are very specialized and IMHO are less reflective of the car brand than most other components. Aisin, Getrag, Borg Warner, ZF.... That's where most of the fault lies. But unlike Takata airbags. I don't see a lot of component manufacturer names becoming part of the common discussion (outside of enthusiast groups).

Vincent Davidson > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:02

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Former Acura tech here.

The TSX and 2004-08 TL saved Acura's rep as being a reliable car. By then Honda had the transmission problems mostly worked out, and both are built very well. Same goes for DC5 RSX/Integra. I've seen TSX examples with upwards of 300k that have had little more than normal maintenance done to them.

They began to get it wrong about 2008 with the '09 TL -

Although mechanically reliable, the exterior and interior trim were, to say the least, cheap. The same era Accord seemed more solid, for about $10k less.

We were told about 2007 that a RWD V8 RL replacement was in the works and the TSX was supposed to have the Euro Accord Diesel powerplant. Both would have revolutionized the near-lux game, but the people using their houses as ATMs housing bubble burst, and both were shelved. Shame really.

Steven Lang > Brumos59-2 02/03/2015 at 12:03

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Strike me if I'm wrong. But I believe the Honda Accord has registered more retail sales than any other car over the last two years.

I would think that quite a few former Acura owners have already transferred over to that model.

I think the higher trims of the CR-V will also have a similar impact.

The World of Vee > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:04

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Damn steve, first old audis, now old acuras!? Stop writing about cars I own/owned!

I got a 2000 3.2TL as a HS grad present from my dad in 2003, took all the hot bits from the Type-S and made my own custom variety. I LOVED that car. Say what you will about FWD, but I'll be damned if it wasn't one of the most fun cars to drive that I've ever owned. The transmission went. twice. Once was covered by Acura and the second time I just said screw it and got the guts from a 6-Speed CL-S. Man the TL with a 6 speed was an absolute monster.

I held onto the car just as an occasional use thing for ages, I loved it too much. Finally sold it for $5k to a college kid in 2013 with get this, 275k miles on the clock! The car still visually looked brand new, and the mechanicals were damn near perfect. He emails me from time to time, he's put another 50k on it since he bought it from me and says all he has to do is change the oil.

Acura used to make exceptional cars....

when I sold it.

8695Beaters > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:04

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I think the reason people keep Acuras and older Hondas so long is that they (used to be) great cars overall. They had the right mix of comfort, fun, and price. The old line of Acuras were just nice places to be and when you throw in the overall great reliability, there was no reason to get rid of them. These days Acuras are bedazzled with technology and all of the "Industry Experts" say Acura needs a V8 flagship sedan to compete with Mercedes and the like. I say no. If Acura can make their cars nice places to be; the right mix of sporty, comfortable, and useful that made Acura a landmark, Acura will find sales again. I'd also argue that they really need to bring down their prices. Acuras shouldn't be competing with the top luxury brands. They should be kicking the ass of Buick and Volkswagen, the mid-level brands that Acura should be able to easily dominate.

gomjabber > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:04

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'The wife had a 02 Accord EX, 4cyl auto transmission that gave up the ghost at 99k. Our introduction to Honda and transmissions.

rudyH > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:05

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When Mr Honda died, Honda lost it's innovation engine. He was a great guy!

Dream Theater of the Absurd > As Du Volant 02/03/2015 at 12:09

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"Thank you, Mr. Wolf."

"Please. Call me Winston."

Turbolence1988 Loves Magic Turn Circles > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:12

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Holy shit, MINI. I want to see the source of this data so I can see why they're such a horrific outlier...

UncleWalty > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:12

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I always liked the Honda...er, Acura Vigor:

my car smells like crayons > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:18

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Can the major problem here be avoided by opting for the manual transmission option?

STRumpetrider > The World of Vee 02/03/2015 at 12:21

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My wife has a tuned 04 Rsx-s we bought new, it has 54k on it and is paid for. She will not even look at another car, I imagine we'll own it until she can't drive a manual anymore.

BJS > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:22

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I had my mom's old (brown) LS 1994 Integra with an automatic slush box when I was in college. The gears slipped, and clunked, and then didn't do anything at all. It was my first attempt at a transmission replacement with a refurb unit I bought for $600. That one lasted maybe another 5k miles before I dumped it as a trade in. I'm not sure it would have been able to circle the block after I parked it at the dealership. Always wanted a GS-R stick, but it wasn't in the cards.

live2skico2 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/03/2015 at 12:26

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same. my 91 Integra was the best. sold with 190k after 14 years. I still regret that.

jlnbos > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:30

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I bought an '87 Integra new and kept it for 13 years and 135,000 miles. I loved that car. Very reliable. Handled well. Reasonably fast for the era. Good fuel economy. Very practical with the 5-door body shell.

Sadly, I find nothing on the Acura lot that would bring me into the dealership.

Big Block I-4 > Textured Soy Protein 02/03/2015 at 12:31

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That is what my wife drives, a '01 3.5RL with just over 175K miles. Not too many issues with it since we bought it from her dad 5 years ago with about 125k on it. Fuel pump and now the RR wheel speed sensor and Catalytic converter, but other than that, no issues. She loves it so much that I can't even talk her into another car.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > live2skico2 02/03/2015 at 12:33

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I had a '91 Accord that was also a great little car. Honda/Acura was on their game in the late 80s and early 90s - would love to see them get back to that.

G42dog > Brumos59-2 02/03/2015 at 12:36

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Maybe. Of course, it's also possible that people keep them longer because they're still good solid cars. If you're into practicality and reliability (which has always been a major selling point for Honda/Acura over flash and performance - at least with their mainstream customers), then you were drawn to these probably because you either wanted to take advantage of good resale, or because you wanted to keep them long past the warranty period without having to worry about stuff breaking down. So it may just be that the kind of people who were attracted to these vehicles back then are more prone to drive their cars for a long time, and these cars have done nothing to reconsider that notion.

Diavel in Hawaii > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:36

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The late 90s models had the transmission issues but the first gens are nearly bulletproof. I bought my 90 Legend with 120k miles on it. It's white with that horrible maroon interior and every option possible including the nokia cell phone setup, although I took the control box out of the trunk years ago. It had been stolen at least once and driven hard for at least part of it's life. I was in the military and other than the occasional bath, it was flogged for another 50k. I shipped it off to my parents and now my mother drives it. She thinks driving involves one pedal planted to the floor at all times. 240k miles, no maintenance to speak of and that little bastard is still going strong. The AC works most of the time, the check engine light has been on forever with minor issues not related to engine performance and the door locks stick a bit....but that LS V6 will probably outlive us all. Most reliable car I've ever owned.

FNALSOLUTION > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:38

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I owned a 92 Legend and 2 RL's. Only complaint RL parts are expensive as shit. The RL I currently own has a salvage title because of accident which broke a headlight, fender and bumper so the insurance wrote it off....but other than that Honda gets my money anyday

Othala > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:47

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I just want to say I am loving these data based reflections on used cars and manufacturers.

I have looked for data like this in the past and I always wound up with the reality of getting lost navigating through forums, adding up impressions built on anecdotes.

So thank you, and keep them coming!

p.s. Can I get ungreyed?

Maxaxle > UncleWalty 02/03/2015 at 12:49

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Oh yeah, I learned to drive in a Vig...er, Accord.

bayman97 > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:50

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Always had a soft spot for those early-2000s TL's. If it wasn't for the transmission issues, they really do offer the perfect blend of contemporary design with some of the best FWD handling you can find in a sedan. They were huge on the inside too- same rear legroom as an E38 7 series.

Steven Lang > Othala 02/03/2015 at 12:51

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Done!

Steven Lang > bayman97 02/03/2015 at 12:53

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Yep. That 03' TL with 140k sold for $6000. Meanwhile a comparable Seville or an LS would have trouble getting $3500.

Othala > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 12:56

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Yippie! Thank you again!

EKnineTIME > The World of Vee 02/03/2015 at 12:59

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I currently have an 01 with a 1 time replacement trans from Acura around 175k. It's now sitting pretty at 255k and it is a CHAMPION. I only drive it in winter as my beater, so once it destroys itself I would be curious as to how difficult your manual swap was. Got any links?

Smokin Jay > live2skico2 02/03/2015 at 13:01

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My pops bought a used '93 integra back in 95. It was my first car as a high school student in 2005 and it's the car in which I learned to drive with a manual transmission. It had 2 clutch replacements and a rebuilt alternator. 1 replaced head gasket and a small rack and pinion leak to go with 3 front strut replacements. The freon had to be topped off every other year from 2003 until I sold it in 2010. I only sold it because the AC compressor gave out and it would have cost close to 2k to replace (Texas gets hot). For a car with over 150k miles and was over nearing 20 years of age that car had very little maintenance that had to be done to it and was ALWAYS a blast to drive. I too still regret selling that car.

jalop1991 > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 13:22

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Let's face it: back in '98 to '04 (that's when Honda fucked up their transmissions), only the V6 models had problems. With Honda, percentage wise, that wasn't nearly all of them. But with Acura—which is just Hondas with nicer interiors, using the exact same drivetrains—it was ALL of them. Acura barely made/sold 4 cylinder cars. V6 was their bread and butter.

Anyway, fuck American Honda Motor Manufacturing and all of its bits and pieces, including Acura. Fuck them with a hot poker right up the ass. Not only did they fuck up their transmissions, but after the economy crashed they stopped taking care of their customers with said fucked up transmissions. (Before the crash? They fell all over themselves replacing them.)

Hey, look—I can get the RAV4 in Lexus livery. Goddamn. Hey, Honda—tell us all what those competitive numbers start looking like this year and next.

DirtyVDub > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 13:31

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Yawn, the VW diesels are not on the list because people don't stop driving them until 300k+

Mike > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 13:40

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I've got an '03 Acura TL-S. Bought in in 06 with 45k on it. Just turned 250k.

1st Trans died at 65k. Acura replaced 100% CPO Car.

2nd Trans died at 130k. Acura replaced and good-willed 90%. I paid $375.

3rd Trans died at 220k. I replaced with 3 year unlimited mileage warranty.

Other than that, this car has been low maintenance, and a pleasure to drive.

jlnbos > Turbolence1988 Loves Magic Turn Circles 02/03/2015 at 13:51

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It is not a surprise that MINI's reliability sucks. Choose any reliability survey you want and you'll see the same results. Yes, all of the reliability surveys have issues, but when every survey shows that MINI reliability sucks you have to accept that fact.

jlnbos > my car smells like crayons 02/03/2015 at 13:52

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Only the ILX is available with a manual transmission and good luck finding one on the lot.

shop-teacher > 55_mercury 02/03/2015 at 13:53

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Because they only sell trucks, and trucks are what GM does best. I've owned four modern GM trucks, and four modern GM cars. The trucks have all been rock-solid reliable. The cars? Shit, just shit.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 14:01

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Mercedes used to say: Built to a Standard. Not a Price.

Is this what happens when values shift away from 'build the best damned car we can"??

Pick a 1993 Camry. Boring. Simple. Still running and driving. Then Toyota wanted to be the largest car company in the world. And they did it. And then the sky fell.

Honda stopped building the best car they could so they could build 'appealing' cars. Sure they sell a lot, but not with the same passion (for themselves or their customers) as they did 20 years ago

Huell Howitzer > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 14:02

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"Acura was on a roll back in 1990 thanks to Soichiro Honda's stewardship..." This is more myth used by people to perpetuate another myth that Honda as a company can't produce anything valid since Soichiro's death. Mr. Honda retired in 1973, becoming "Supreme Advisor." Keeping an eye on the business but mainly staying out of decision making and product planning for his remaining years of life. Mr. Honda spent years visiting every single factory, distribution center and showroom, personally showing his gratitude to his employees worldwide.

"Stewardship" credit during that period goes to Tadashi Kume who was one of Honda's first engineers and rose through the ranks to CEO (1983-1990), though countless designers, engineers, and product planners also get credit. The Honda corporate hierarchy is distinctively flat so that a lower level engineer has a voice in decision making.

Huell Howitzer > Brumos59-2 02/03/2015 at 14:08

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...it's actually more to do with the crappy economy and is industrywide. But go ahead and put your typical Jalopnik parroting shit on Honda claim there, I'm sure you'll get lots of starclicks.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014…

Mike > EKnineTIME 02/03/2015 at 14:13

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Checkout the 2nd Gen TL forum on Acurazine.com

Brumos59-2 > Huell Howitzer 02/03/2015 at 14:15

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I'm not fishing for clicks. I couldn't care less about that. I just know a lot of people, my parents included, who only buy Hondas, and are still driving an '01 Accord, an '04 TSX and an '07 S2000 because Honda and Acura combined have nothing available that they like. My dad is actually looking at Focus STs and Fiesta STs to replace the TSX which is nearing 200k miles and he's been burned by Ford before with a crappy '86 Escort GT. The crappyness of that particular Escort is what got him into his first Honda, an '86 Civic SI and they have had nothing but Hondas and the one Acura ever since. My wife and I on the other hand just bailed on Honda and after a couple of Nissans we now have a Subaru and a VW, in addition to my '98 Acura Integra that I am planning on keeping forever.

Americanitis > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 14:21

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I had two Civics (89 and 91) and two Integras (89 and 90, basically twin-cam Civics for the most part), and all 4 were brilliant cars. Light, handled well, not crazy powerful, but felt zippy and fun. All 4 aged fairly well mechanically, but cosmetically, between me, deer/trees, and PA road salt, they didn't fare so well longterm, I guess. Great cars, all of them.

My dad had an early-2000s RSX. It was nice looking, but kind of a piece of shit: it ended up having the same rust/paint issues as my old Hondas did, but with the added benefit of not being as reliable. It was VERY sensitive to the gas that went into it, and seemed to run way too much timing, which always resulted in engine hesitation/knocking, and eventually CELs/limp mode. It was also bigger and heavier, and really just wasn't as good a car. He liked it when it ran right, but it didn't do that enough to keep. Prior to that, he had a 87 Porsche 944 with almost 200k on it, and the Porsche was more reliable than the Honda once he did the clutch-and-timing-stuff service.

Honda lost their way after the early 1990s, and they are now to the point where the only car they made in the last 30 years I'd even consider driving is an NSX, and frankly, for the same money or less (WAY less in some cases), I'd still rather have a used 911, M3, or C5/C6 Corvette. All 3 are better looking, more powerful, and just better cars (IMO of course). The S2000, Element and Ridgeline are/were ok I suppose, but they really don't make anything else I'd want to drive or even be seen in. Such a shame too, as Honda used to make some of the best engines and manual gearboxes in the world. Now they just make a bunch of bloated, boring shit for old people and soccer moms who don't know any better.

YouCanJustifyAnything > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 14:28

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Of course Acura needs help with their lineup, but I made it work and have no regrets over any of my 3 Acura purchases - and can't say that for everything I owned over 30 years of driving.

2011 TL, 305HP, AWD Torque Vectoring, keyless entry, beautiful interior AND exterior (with tweaks).

70k miles already and I have no reason to replace it (so far) except by an electric car....maybe.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 14:44

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This is from an '01 to '03 CL Premium. The Type S has a slightly better interior. Here's mine:

The only part of it that is in poor shape is the leather on the seats and the doors that hide the cup holder (I can blame my dog for that).

Alf Romio > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 15:50

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That RSX commercial takes me back when Acura marketing and advertising still had some energy. Airborne RSX? Check.

jpaulus > Steven Lang 02/03/2015 at 16:51

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I will never own an Acura again. My '05 TL has rust issues, interior rattles, poor leather quality, transmission hesitates from 3rd to 4th ... Other than it looks good and the interior is attractive... It's a shame that the quality is subpar. Nah, only BMW or Lexus from now on.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > Milky 02/03/2015 at 17:07

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You called The Wolf? Why didn't you say so?!

pmendoza502 > Textured Soy Protein 02/03/2015 at 18:50

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I has That!!!

VonBelmont > bayman97 02/03/2015 at 22:51

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My dad had an '04 TL, and the legroom was just as good as his BMW. That was the first car I remember noticing the new car smell, and loving it.

Mike Jones > jalop1991 02/03/2015 at 22:52

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fuck jay and silent bob, fuck them up their stupid asses.

ProzacElf > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/04/2015 at 00:52

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My '89 Legend was maybe the best car I've ever owned. Virtually every car I've owned since I got rid of it has been a heap of junk. I'm currently in a '99 Accord, which sucks in very many regards, but shows no signs of dying on me any time soon at least. And it's a V6, so it doesn't have trouble merging on to the highway or anything. Certainly nothing to hoon with, but hey.

Back to the original point, the Legend had a well-appointed interior, and even though I had an automatic, it was actually quite responsive in sport mode. Even when it was ten years old it could do 0-60 in somewhere around 6 secs, which was pretty impressive for a luxury sedan made in 1989.

Boost135 > Steven Lang 02/04/2015 at 01:31

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Now, can we explain the Isuzu showing?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ProzacElf 02/04/2015 at 08:35

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If they sold that car today, I honestly think they'd still sell well. I'd be very tempted to have another if it was factory fresh...

rudyH > Steven Lang 02/04/2015 at 11:23

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I had a '99 Legend Coupe and I got rid of it in less than a year. Two things drove me nuts. One....it had some of the worst brakes of any car I've ever owned, and I've had a lot of cars. OK, the MGB was worse. The other sounds trivial but was maddening. After you turned the car off and occasionally whole idling the exhaust had the LOUDEST most persistent cooling ticking sound. Not a little sound...it was LOUD! And it went on for about 20 minutes after the car was shut off. Two dealers told me "they all do that." OK. One day through no fault of mine white smoke was pouring out of the exhaust. The dealer said there was water in the fuel, She'll Oil said it didn't. They charged me $800 as I recall but who knows what the real story was. Anyway, the car smelled horrible when I got it back. The dealer said it was a chemical they used and would go away. After two weeks, I bought a new but cheap BMW.

His Stigness > Ash78, voting early and often 02/04/2015 at 14:30

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In the case of Honda though these are "Honda" transmissions. Honda designed pretty much every aspect of them, and they may have even built them, but I'm not positive on that.

But with other manufacturers, you usually take a transmission off the shelf, customize it a little, and pop it into your car. The ZF 8 speed is a good example of this, and the new 9 speed; they're essentially the same brand to brand, but with different gearing and things like that. With modular designs the new norm, brand specific transmissions will gone, and replaces with designs like the ZF boxes.

Steve in Manhattan > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:11

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Lived in Chinatown in 2004 - remember walking down the street and seeing an RLX (AWD?) every day. Appeared smaller than an LS, but I thought an acceptable looking car. But there were so few of them - rare sighting. Anybody driven the latest incarnation?

And it's worth noting (and thanks for writing this) what an opportunity Acura had, that they squandered. Acuras were thick on the ground in the mid-to-late 90s. Now you see more Infinitis, another brand I can't quite explain.

The Stig's Rustbelt Cousin > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 17:33

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I think you're correct in that assessment. The average Acura TL driver is the sort of person who works in middle-management and has a long commute, so they want a car that is comfortable, reliable, and not expensive or subject to massive depreciation, because they will put 200k on the odometer in very little time. With that in mind, they wouldn't be missing much by switching to a loaded V6 Accord, and they save a few thousand in the process. Also, Honda's dealer network is much larger, parts are slightly cheaper, (some shared components on my RSX have an Acura markup) and the things that the TL had that the Accord lacked were pretty minor. Unless someone really, really wanted AWD, and was willing to look at the hideous front fascia of the TL every morning in their garage, buying an Accord was no great sacrifice.

PardonMyFlemish16 > dogisbadob 02/08/2015 at 09:57

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Naw, the Civic hatch is horrible. They should have brought down the CSX from Canada.

dogisbadob > PardonMyFlemish16 02/08/2015 at 10:37

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I totally agree about the CSX, and it would've been a HUGE success, as would the B-Class.

Oh man I want a CSX Type-S. 8000 rpm and heated seats HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!

Michael Mock > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/08/2015 at 15:27

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Sold my '91 Accord Wagon (5-speed manual!) 5 years ago, and regretted it as it was leaving my driveway. It had 240k miles on it, very few problems, and I wouldn't have hesitated to jump in it and drive it across the country at a moment's notice. The guy I sold it to still has it, still drives it from Austin to California to see family twice a year; it's over 300,000 miles now, and has given him zero issues.

I kinda want it back...

PardonMyFlemish16 > dogisbadob 02/08/2015 at 19:09

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FWIW I think you can get the Civic Si with leather.

Me personally, I just have a weird aversion to DOHC VTEC powerplants and actually enjoy the R18. The base CSX with a manual transmission would have been perfect for me. Once my 8th gen EX gets old enough I am seriously considering getting the R20 crank + rods (and a snail and LSD). Would be a good runaround car.

dogisbadob > PardonMyFlemish16 02/08/2015 at 19:38

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Maybe, but the CSX has the added luxury and prestige of the Acura name, and heated seats and mirrors :)

Acura should really offer the ILX with the R20 and manual (right now it's either R20+auto or K24+stick)

PardonMyFlemish16 > dogisbadob 02/08/2015 at 19:55

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I think they are moving to the 2.4 + DCT across the board for the ILX if they haven't already. I'm really waiting on them to do the new 2.0T with the DCT and SH-AWD. I enjoy my R18 Civic though :)

The World of Vee > EKnineTIME 02/10/2015 at 01:14

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check acurazine diy

But to be quick about it, it is essentially plug And play, everything bolts right up where the auto was.

Three hard parts though, drilling the clutch through the firewall, deciding on what springs or coils to buy because the manual is like 400/500 pounds lighter (oh yeah the car FLIES with the stick) and what bootcover and shift knob to get!!