Biggest misnomer ever

"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech) 12/06/2015 at 17:01 • Filed to: Torture

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Sorting through health insurance plans is the most torturous thing ever. I would rather have all of my teeth removed without anesthesia or pain killers. My employer offers mediocre family plans for roughly the same amount as my monthly rent payment so I get plans independently. Because reasons I’m looking at new plans.

djmt1 > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/06/2015 at 17:12

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The concept of paying for this is rather hard to wrap my mind around so forgive my ignorance but how can it be mediocre? Does it not cover broken limbs or something?

desertdog5051 > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/06/2015 at 17:13

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What are your questions? I sold health insurance for over 23 years.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > djmt1 12/06/2015 at 17:16

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Not sure if it’s the same case, but a lot of the times it is an absolute pain in the ass to even find a doctor that will work with said insurance.

djmt1 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 12/06/2015 at 17:20

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and with that I have lost any right to complain about the NHS. I really need to look up how the American healthcare system works but I fear it will just make me angry and sad.

davedave1111 > djmt1 12/06/2015 at 17:24

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Why and how are closely linked in that question. One of the factors that contributes to both is that the US doesn’t know the difference between assurance and insurance. (No-one else does either, except actuaries, but it doesn’t matter outside health insurance, generally.) You insure against risks, whereas assurance covers certainties. So, for example, a policy which pays out if you get a fatal illness is insurance, whereas one that pays out for your funeral when you die is assurance. Medical care requires both, fairly obviously: you want assurance to cover your routine medical care, and insurance to cover you against the risk of having something out of the ordinary that requires treatment.

Because they don’t separate out the insurance from the assurance, it makes it really hard to subsidise certain parts of the system. As a result, the policies at the lower end tend to be a real mess, usually where they’ve tried to exclude something that should be assurance, but have thrown the net too wide and caught things which should be insurance.

The same flaw is seen in a different way with the NHS: because we want free care for the insurance-type cases, we end up with free assurance-type treatment too, and people take the piss with the latter.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > djmt1 12/06/2015 at 17:25

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I’m currently uninsured(can’t afford the Affordable Care Act plans/can’t even use the fucking website) and using Philipino market versions of my asthma medication, because we have friends that go quite often and it’s cheaper to get 10 (non-emergency, emergency ones aren’t too bad) inhalers there, than one here. Luckily with my new job I get fully covered insurance starting after three months, which for me is January 1st.

yamahog > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/06/2015 at 17:31

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Funny you mention that, I’ve had oral surgery without anesthesia because my parents’ insurance didn’t cover it at the time. Did get Novacaine and some sweet IV Valium though.

djmt1 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 12/06/2015 at 17:46

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Well, I feel like an utter cunt right now. Tomorrow I’m going in for a throat check up and I’ve been bitching constantly about it. That it was more than a week away from my appointment, a whole 10 days. That it was only at my 2nd closest hospital a whole .3 miles further away than the other one and that the appointment was at 5:45PM which means it will be dark out. The whole cost of having a camera stuck down my throat and any surgery needed, the price of the bus fare. I will never complain about the NHS again... well for the next year at least, I promise.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > djmt1 12/06/2015 at 17:56

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While they aren’t free, a decent primary care doc isn’t ridiculous and can usually get you within the week, but hospital stays, surgeries, and prescriptions are what get you.

yamahog > djmt1 12/06/2015 at 18:12

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Examples:

Surgical procedure X is covered; anesthesia is not

Out of network ER visits not covered, and if you’re dying, you’re not going to tell the ambulance (which also costs money) to drive further to find an in-network hospital

Dental insurance often doesn’t include orthodontia, just annual X rays and cleaning

Etc.

It was even worse before. If you had a pre-existing conditions like diabetes or, I shit you not, being beaten by your partner too many times, insurance companies could refuse to cover any related expenses.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > yamahog 12/06/2015 at 18:18

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Not to mention dental plans often have maximum benefit of $1000 but the monthly payments some end up being that much or more and the coinsurance is something like 50-75%. So really that dental plan ends up costing you money and you still have to pay a ridiculous amount out of pocket for big items like tooth extraction.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > desertdog5051 12/06/2015 at 18:24

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I get how it works. But why is it so damn expensive?! If you make too much for a subsidy but your household income is under 100k the adjective “affordable” is an absolute joke. But if you make just under the limit then WOOHOO YOU GET THE PRESIDENTIAL PACKAGE AND IT WILL ONLY COST YOU PEANUTS! And come on, who really has 10k laying around that they can throw at a deductible? Anyone who does likely has enough income or money to afford a plan that doesn’t suck. I could rant for days on this so I’m going to stop now before I give myself a stroke and need that insurance right now.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > djmt1 12/06/2015 at 18:25

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Don’t feel bad because you have it good. Just be happy about it.

yamahog > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/06/2015 at 18:26

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Ooof. I am now very glad I haven’t come across plans like that myself :( really wish all this shit didn’t depend on one’s employer.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > yamahog 12/06/2015 at 18:33

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No kidding. Makes me want to work for the post office or a police garage just for the benefits, despite how much I would actually hate the job. On the other hand I could just put more effort into working towards an MBUSA corporate spot...

Leon711 > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/06/2015 at 18:33

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I don’t understand why the US didn’t want something like the NHS, I’m not clued up on Obamacare, but instead of being like an NHS type deal it was just more insurance right? I mean we do pay for the NHS in the form of taxes on our income, but it’s nowhere near as crippling as what you describe (unless your rent is really cheap). Still if you are on vacation here, and you get hit by a bus, you can be sure you’ll be looked after.

We got a guy from Kentucky in my office at work and he is very reluctant to use the NHS because he feels he would take help away from someone who really needed it and paid taxes their whole life for it, he is going back to work at our HQ in Daytona and is already bitching about the insurance thing.

Mattbob > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/06/2015 at 18:41

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I must just be lucky. I get good insurance through my employer for under $100 a month... I always found it “odd” that a company without any unions to speak of can manage to offer their employees such good medical dental and vision insurance without really much of a fuss.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > djmt1 12/06/2015 at 18:46

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Let’s say you pay $400/ month for this made-up hypothetical plan:

You get preventive items such as annual check ups for free.

But have a $60 payment for every visit that isn’t preventive.

Then you have to pay 40% of anything that isn’t just a basic office visit.

Specialists and out of network providers cost more still.

Prescriptions cost $30 for generic, and considerably more for anything else.

Then you have vision for $30/month that covers either up to $125 worth of contacts out glasses per year and you still have to pay $50 for a check up. Plus they only pay for a maximum of $500 per year.

Then you have dental for another $80/month. It only has a $50 deductible but the plan will only pay a maximum of $1000 per year and you still have to pay for half of every service.

Most of the time you would be better off not having insurance, putting the money you would have spent into a health savings account, then telling your care provider that you don’t have insurance because that usually gets you a massive discount.

Example: My wife needed a prescription last year that the pharmacy told her would have cost $19 without insurance. Because she has insurance it cost $50.

Svend > djmt1 12/06/2015 at 18:54

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Or how the American Healthcare system ‘doesn’t work’.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Leon711 12/06/2015 at 18:58

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In my opinion, obamacare is a big step in the right direction from what we had before, which was more or less a crap shoot. But we still have a long way to go.

The US won’t go for an NHS style system because providers and politicians wing make the same kind of money as before, and the general public doesn’t want higher taxes, even if they are out to good use. Not the the US government is particularly good at spending tax money, which is a whole other problem. The system has just enough corrupt people and broken ideas to prevent it from ever working well.

Svend > Leon711 12/06/2015 at 18:59

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A U.S. Nation will get a bill from the NHS, but it’ll be a lot less than what they’d of paid in the U.S. Just as we’d get get a bill from a U.S. Hospital but whatever isn’t covered by the E111 card, you’ll pay out of your own pocket but you’ll get the money back by claiming to U.K. Government.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Mattbob 12/06/2015 at 19:05

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That’s excellent. The coverage offered by my employer would be perfectly acceptable if my wife and daughter didn’t also need insurance. For an individual it costs around $150/month including vision and dental. With my wife it’s around $500. With kids, any amount, it’s around $1100. It’s not even a fantastic plan, $50 copay for office visits, 40% coinsurance for anything else, $30-75 prescriptions, $3/6k deductibles, mediocre amount of covered doctors.

Mattbob > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/06/2015 at 19:44

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yeah, that sounds shitty. I was able to add on my girlfriend since we live together for the same price as me, $20 copay for most things, and no deductibles. I guess the prices really do vary wildly. I hope you are able to find a decent deal.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Mattbob 12/06/2015 at 19:53

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Thanks. I’ll get it figured out, it’s just always a headache getting there.

desertdog5051 > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/06/2015 at 20:03

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I know what you are talking about.

The rules are skewed heavily to people with lower incomes.

The rules make it pretty much unaffordable for a lot of middle class families.

My premium jumped 400% without subsidies. I was lucky and got grandfathered in for an extra year on my old plan.

When I saw what a clusterfuck Obamacare was, I decided it was time to cash in my stock and retire. Glad I did.

By retiring, I was able to qualify for the ‘poor folks’ plans and got a huge subsidy.

This is not fair.

I feel your pain.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > desertdog5051 12/06/2015 at 20:32

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Admittedly I’m a little jealous of your luck.

I haven’t had an issue previously because when my daughter was born my income was half of what it is now so the state was supplying her with excellent coverage for peanuts so my wife and I just bought a bare bones plan instead. Well they’ve finally decided not to renew my daughter’s insurance, even though I’ve updated them on my income every year. So now I’m trying to find an affordable plan for all of us.

I can accept that it’s going to cost me more. I’m having a hard time accepting that it will cost me more and I will still get worse coverage. To get a plan for the three of us comparable to what my wife and I currently have would would cost me more than double. She stays at home, while nothing to scoff at my income is our only income. This will be very difficult.

E92M3 > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/06/2015 at 21:04

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I feel your pain man. I ended up just choosing a $300 a month plan, which is really only beneficial if I have an extended hospital stay. For another $200 a month or $2500 a year I could get a decent plan, but I’m hoping to not need this one. It’s not worth that much more to save $20 for an office visit, or $10 a prescription.

yamahog > Mattbob 12/06/2015 at 21:46

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IDR where you work, but larger companies have the luxury of spreading that expense over more people, hence lower premiums for better care. Large or small, it’s also to their benefit (no pun intended) to offer better insurance coverage in order to attract/retain talent.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > E92M3 12/06/2015 at 22:22

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Yeah. That’s what I’m going to end up doing. We’re young enough and healthy enough that we don’t need insurance except for unexpected things or accidents. Calculated gamble as it were.

Mattbob > yamahog 12/07/2015 at 08:04

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Yeah, it seems like they get that whole “treat your employees well and they might stay” thing. One thing that may help though, is that it is a large private company so they aren’t really responsible for share holders so they may be a little more generous. Bosch btw (don’t think I can get in trouble for saying good things about them). I’ve worked here since I graduated so I don’t really have much depth of experience on the matter though.