Am I missing Anything?

"zeontestpilot" (zeontestpilot) 11/30/2015 at 07:11 • Filed to: Fish tank

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I just wanted to make sure before we buy any fish. I got a new heater (200 w I believe), a thermometer, a 30-60 gallon filter, a aerator pump, a aqua stone, a release valve for the aerator, and decorations. The filter has been running for a week now.

Surprisingly, I can find little info online about fish stuff, especially aerating the tank. I didn’t know I was suppose to aerate it until I visited family and saw their fish tank. Somehow any guide I read missed that part? We were given the tank and some of the other things listed above, so I’m figuring it out as I go.

Anyways, I hope I have everything. The only things I do still need is a chlorine neutralizer and a Ph balancer (or whatever it’s called, to test Ph levels). Anything else I still need to get?

Nisman > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 07:18

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Check out http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/

zeontestpilot > Nisman 11/30/2015 at 07:21

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Looks neat but expensive, :/.

jariten1781 > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 07:39

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Been a while since I’ve started a tank, but it sounds like you’ve got sufficient hardware (assume you have a siphon vacuum if not...you can use a hose, but practice a bit so you don’t suck all your gravel out). The real obnoxious part about starting a tank is getting the right chemistry balance and microbe life system going. Nitrates/Nitrites/and Ph are the killers...go out for a bit and your tank will have a mass extinction depending on how hardy the fish are.

There’s a number of theories on how to get your microbes going. Some people just use naturally established via air (ie, just leave the tank set up for a month or two), some people use packets of freeze dried or frozen ones (I had no luck with this). However, the one I found most effective was having a sacrificial school. Pick up some hardy cheap schooling fish (think Harlequin Rasboras or Zebra Striped Danios) and let them live in the tank for a couple months before introducing the less hardy/more expensive/more interesting fish. You’ll have a few deaths during that period (unless you’re really lucky), but once you’ve gone 3-4 weeks without them you should have a good biome to start introducing other guys one at a time. I recommend getting a pair of bristle nosed catfish for your algae cleaners (way way more effective than common Plecos or Pictus...and they stay relatively small...be sure to feed algae discs or you’ll lose them though) as your second batch. Avoid snails at all costs...they can breed out of control. If you buy fish from big box pet stores (or Wal-Mart or whatever) they’re inevitably going to show up just from the water transfer, just stay on top of it.

Side Note: reason you’re probably not seeing a lot on aeration is that it’s not 100% accepted as necessary. I’ve always run it (why not?)...but there are plenty of long lived successful tanks that just use the inherent aerating from their filter wheel.

zeontestpilot > jariten1781 11/30/2015 at 07:51

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I believe we are going the sacrificial route. Not having fish in a running tank bugs me....

Albertlambert > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 07:52

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Bacteria starter

zeontestpilot > Albertlambert 11/30/2015 at 07:53

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What's that?

Albertlambert > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 07:55

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Quickstart or another type. Your fish need bacteria for health. They produce it eventually but if youre not planning on getting starter fish you dont really care about add some before you add fish and let it start up.

jariten1781 > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 08:03

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Just be prepped for them to all potentially die (well not all, there’s usually one or two that will survive even the worst conditions for whatever reason) until the tank is conditioned well enough.

And, general rule of thumb is 1 inch (max adult size) per gallon of tank capacity. Don’t go buy 30 danios, my preference for starters, for a 30 gallon tank otherwise you’re going to be the lucky (unlucky) one who has them all live and prevent you from adding more interesting stuffs later. Don’t over populate or you risk a mass die off. I usually go ~1/3 the capacity and add them about a week after starting the tank. I do (well, did, haven’t had a tank since my last move) a gravel transfer from one of my working tanks which helps kick start the whole thing so I rarely lose any of the starter crew anymore.

Funktheduck > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 08:15

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Jariten covered a lot but to cover aeration and flow a bit: depends on the fish. Same with ph and all that jazz. Some like more air or more water flowing or different ph levels. My suggestion would be to be research the fish you want and make sure they can cohabitate.

I know of a couple really good fish stores that have really knowledgeable people on staff. Hopefully you can find one of those. More expensive than big box places typically but they also know what works so you can save money by not having to experiment as much.

zeontestpilot > Funktheduck 11/30/2015 at 08:25

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I told my wife that I like to imagine people figured out what cohabitates with what was done merely by fish fight clubs.

And we plan of buying the fish from pet stores, and asking them.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 08:26

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Nah, just have the store check your water chemicals. Bring them a sample it will take 3 minutes.

Nibby > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 08:29

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ARGH where are you located? I want to unload my family’s fish tank since it’s just become a hassle. My sister wanted fish so my father got a 30 gallon tank and everything else. She has yet to even feed them in 3 years.

Twinpowermeansoneturbo > jariten1781 11/30/2015 at 08:32

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Don’t just kill off a bunch of fish by not starting the tank correctly and being prepared. Purchase API QuickStart, which is essentially a bottle of the beneficial bacteria and use that first. For water treatment you should be using Seachem Prime. It’s the best there is.

TheRealBicycleBuck > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 08:32

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jariten1781 is on the right track, but is suggesting the wrong fish. For your starter fish, stick with live-bearers. This includes guppies, swords, and platys. DON’T use tetras or danios. They are less likely to survive.

Also, don’t forget to REMOVE any carbon filters during the cycling period. Carbon is very effective at removing ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates - all the chemicals necessary for the cycle to happen. The filter pads for your external filter contain carbon. The best bet is to remove the carbon from the filter pads (it’s usually in granular form between the plastic support and the filter material) until the bacteria are established. I always run carbon-free pads for the first month.

Aeration is only necessary if you overload the aquarium with fish.

Keeping your water level that low is going to cause you problems later. Anything that makes water splash onto the top will lead to mineral deposits on the glass as the water evaporates. This includes the bubbles for those aeration bars. In all my years of keeping fish, I never used one. They are the devil.

People usually overfeed their fish. The excess ends up in the gravel or in the filter. Excess food tends to clog the filter and the extra nutrients in the system will cause an algal bloom.

One last note - make sure you have a check valve on the air line to your bubbler if you want to keep it. If the air pump fails for any reason (power outage, etc.) and you don’t have a check valve, the air line will siphon water out of the aquarium. If the pump is below the aquarium, it will siphon ALL of the water out. I learned this one the hard way.

zeontestpilot > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 11/30/2015 at 08:33

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Did not know that could be done, nice! :D

TooLazyToNotBurner > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 08:38

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A lot of folks assume that the water falling from the pump will be enough to aerate the whole tank, and usually they are right if the height is high enough. We’ve always running the air stones as a good secondary just in case the pump quits. It’s crappy to come home to a tank full of floating guppies because the kitten knocked the pump off the side of the tank while ‘watching’ the fish.

As for conditioning the water, we had pretty good luck in just having a big Rubbermaid garbage can that we’d stand the water in for a week before adding it to the tank. It was really rare to have one of the cichlids or Oscars die from a water change.

zeontestpilot > Nibby 11/30/2015 at 08:42

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Michigan, USA.

Nibby > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 08:43

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too far from NY :(

Mattbob > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 08:45

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I don’t see the requisite bubbler treasure chest.

zeontestpilot > TheRealBicycleBuck 11/30/2015 at 08:50

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So I should add more water to the tank then? And I don’t need to always use the aerator? That’s good to know. It looks cool though. I believe I have a Check valve, sort of cylindrical shaped, right?

zeontestpilot > TooLazyToNotBurner 11/30/2015 at 08:55

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So a backup system? Actually, I think I will keep the aerator stuff, it can be useful, lol.

zeontestpilot > Mattbob 11/30/2015 at 08:56

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Haven’t seen it in stores, but I’d be scared the fish might go insane. Have you seen the dentist fish in Finding Nemo!

zeontestpilot > Nibby 11/30/2015 at 09:03

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Yep...too bad too. I'm trying to go about this as cheaply as possible.

jariten1781 > TheRealBicycleBuck 11/30/2015 at 09:13

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I don’t disagree with what you said, but how I was taught you don’t want anything too hardy as your starter school or they don’t play canary well enough. Guppies can be thriving in an environment that’ll slaughter a discus or whatever.

Granted I’m going off 15 year old knowledge and am certainly not a studied expert of any kind...just lots of anecdotal experience (started ~10 tanks from scratch and probably 75 or so total).

Nibby > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 09:15

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I would’ve just unloaded all this stuff on you for free.

zeontestpilot > Nibby 11/30/2015 at 09:25

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Exactly, as cheaply as possible, :)

TheRealBicycleBuck > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 10:00

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Top off the aquarium. Before you fill it to the brim, take a look at the underside of the top trim. In less expensive aquariums, they save some money by not sealing the gap between the glass and the top trim with silicone. This provides an opportunity for water to move between the trim and glass. If this is sealed, you can fill it almost to the top. If it isn’t sealed, take the water level above the bottom of the trim, but below the top of the glass. Any mineral accumulation on the glass will be kept in this area where it can’t be seen from the outside.

As long as you don’t overload the aquarium with fish, the aerator is unnecessary. Water movement from the filter is more than sufficient to provide adequate aeration.

I can see the gang valve you used. Unless you added a check valve between the gang valve and the pump, you probably don’t have one. They are sold and installed separately. Some air pumps have them built in, but most of the inexpensive ones don’t.

Oh yeah - it’s better to have the thermometer and the heater on opposite corners. I prefer to have the thermometer horizontally mounted about a third of the distance up the back wall, but it probably doesn’t matter that much. Either way, greater separation between the heat source and the thermometer will give you a better idea of the heat distribution in the aquarium.

TheRealBicycleBuck > jariten1781 11/30/2015 at 10:09

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It’s not a matter of playing canary. It’s a matter of surviving the full cycle. If the fish die part way through the cycle, it usually isn’t real clear what went wrong without doing chemical tests on the water.

We haven’t gotten to the point of discussing water hardness and pH. Most new aquarium owners will stick with species that are fairly tolerant.

It’s funny you bring up Discus. Many of the South American species are intolerant of high pH and hard water - the exact conditions at my mom’s house. The only way to get South Americans to thrive was to bring in distilled water. But it was FANTASTIC for African cichlids.

zeontestpilot > TheRealBicycleBuck 11/30/2015 at 10:12

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Something like this? I'm not too familiar with all the terms yet...

TheRealBicycleBuck > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 10:16

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Not sure what you have there. It looks like there is some sort of filter medium in the cylinder. What brand is that?

A check valve should look something like this:

The idea is that water flowing backward through the system will force the valve closed. In this one, the pump would be attached to the right side of the picture and the aquarium would be on the left. If water tried to move from left to right, the silicone valve would be forced shut, keeping water from flowing to the pump.

zeontestpilot > TheRealBicycleBuck 11/30/2015 at 10:22

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That's what it is, or that's what the packaging said it does.

TheRealBicycleBuck > TooLazyToNotBurner 11/30/2015 at 10:23

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If you had dead guppies due to a failed air pump, the aquarium had too many fish.

Letting water sit for a couple of days in another container is a good way to remove chlorine derivatives. It doesn’t do anything to adjust for pH or hardness. To minimize stress on the fish, no more than 10% of the water volume should be changed at a time. That being said, I rarely minimized the stress on my fish....

TheRealBicycleBuck > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 10:25

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Good deal. What’s with the material packed in there? Perhaps it is some sort of dessicant?

zeontestpilot > TheRealBicycleBuck 11/30/2015 at 10:28

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Came with it. Meijer’s brand.

TheRealBicycleBuck > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 10:42

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Hmmm. It supposedly filters the air. Air pumps are pretty simple - there’s a bellows and a couple of flap valves. The air intake usually has some filter media to keep the dust out. There isn’t anything in this in-line filter that would make the air any cleaner since the pump should keep out any dust....

As long as it keeps water from siphoning back to the pump, it should be fine. You can test it by turning off the pump and trying to blow air back through the check valve. If you can, buy a new valve. It’s cheap insurance that can prevent a minor flood.

Nisman > zeontestpilot 11/30/2015 at 10:43

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Oh it’s insane but they have great videos and how to guides you can utilize.

TooLazyToNotBurner > TheRealBicycleBuck 11/30/2015 at 10:44

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Those little buggers would breed fast enough that we made regular trips to the store to sell them back. I agree entirely that there were too many for the tank. Our water at that place was great once the chlorine was out, we could change 2/3 of the tank with no problems.

TheRealBicycleBuck > TooLazyToNotBurner 11/30/2015 at 10:56

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Sounds like you needed one good predator in there. :)

zeontestpilot > TheRealBicycleBuck 11/30/2015 at 11:14

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I couldn't blow through it, so I'm guessing it's good.

zeontestpilot > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/01/2015 at 06:20

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Hey, I did a ph test, and the water was too alkaline. Suggestions to lower it? Is there a chemical I can use, or are all suggestions just natural stuff like driftwood or peat moss?

TheRealBicycleBuck > zeontestpilot 12/01/2015 at 06:36

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This is a pretty good indication that your water is “hard”. You have three choices to lower the pH. Over the counter chemicals will do the job quickly and safely as long as you go slowly. Once you have fish, you will want to pre-balance the water in a bucket before adding it to the aquarium.

Peat or driftwood will work, but it is a very slow process and it will color the water. Not recommend unless you are planning to go all South American in your fish selection.

The third way is to buy distilled water and use that for the water changes. Local filtered water is still likely to be hard. Distilling removes the minerals, making the water “soft” and naturally lowering the pH.

A fourth option you should consider is going with what you have and selecting fish that prefer harder, high pH water. African cichlids would be the best choice. They are fun fish to watch since they aren't as timid. Just be careful about the species you select. Many of these guys can get BIG.

zeontestpilot > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/01/2015 at 08:20

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Can you explain what you mean by pre-balance in a bucket?

TheRealBicycleBuck > zeontestpilot 12/01/2015 at 08:38

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Sure. Put water in a bucket. Adjust the pH and remove chlorine (assuming you are using city water that has been treated - use either chlorine treatment drops or let it sit for a few days and the chlorine will gas out naturally). If you are only changing 10% of the aquarium water, you should be able to add it once the water comes to room temperature. If you are changing more (not advisable), then you might consider warming it to match the aquarium temperature before adding it.

Fish are sensitive to big changes in temperature, pH, hardness, and salinity. Some species are more tolerant than others, but few species can handle water conditions that are very different from their native environment for very long. It is easier to take advantage of the local water conditions by buying fish that will thrive in it. It is much more difficult to change the local water to match the water conditions for a specific fish.

My mom has well water which is very hard. Perfect for African cichlids. My house has very soft water. Perfect for South American fish. Play to the strengths of the local water. The fish will thrive and it will require less work on your part.

TheRealBicycleBuck > zeontestpilot 12/01/2015 at 08:57

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Don’t bother asking the people at the pet store. Most of them have minimal training and have “learned” the trade on the fly. It’s like asking your crazy uncle who worked for years at the local gas station how to work on your Ferrari.

Do the smart thing, get yourself a good book.

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Book-…

zeontestpilot > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/01/2015 at 08:59

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We have treated well water, which is why it’s so hard. No water softener. MrsZtp said to just go with the hard water fish. Is there anything special you must do for hard water fish?

Also, thanks for all your input so far, it's been quite insightful, :).

zeontestpilot > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/01/2015 at 09:02

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Wait, Uncle Henry has been lying this entire time?!

TheRealBicycleBuck > zeontestpilot 12/01/2015 at 09:29

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You still need to check pH and it’s a good idea to get a simple test kit to understand how hard the water really is and what other dissolved minerals are in there. My mom’s well water is really hard, but also contains a lot of iron. Yours may be different.

I’m glad to help. I worked at a pet shop while I was in college, so I watched a lot of people get frustrated because they kept doing the wrong things and killing their fish. I also had to spend a lot of time training other employees so they wouldn’t spread erroneous information. It’s amazing how much “common” knowledge in the aquarium trade is just wrong. The internet has helped a lot, but there’s still a lot of misinformation floating around.

When looking for Africans, you probably won’t get much help from the pet store people. Most of them don’t know much about them, so they lump them all together into one group - “africans”. I prefer lake Tanganyika cichlids since many of them remain fairly small. Two of my favorites are Neolamprologus elongatus ( formerly known as Lamprologus brichardi) and Lamprologus leluipi.

zeontestpilot > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/01/2015 at 09:32

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I think the ph was 8.4, the highest it could go on the scale. And there is iron in the water. Is that gonna be a problem?

TheRealBicycleBuck > zeontestpilot 12/01/2015 at 09:40

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Wow! That’s some basic water!

Typical recommendations are in the 8.0 to 8.2 range. The iron in the water shouldn’t be a problem.It will probably discolor the rocks over time.

zeontestpilot > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/01/2015 at 09:59

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Haha, so it’s good then? Probably just need to lower it just a tad bit...

TheRealBicycleBuck > zeontestpilot 12/01/2015 at 10:20

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I’d lower it a bit.