6 Point Harness and Racing Seats

"CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)" (ccpbb)
11/24/2015 at 00:51 • Filed to: None

I’ve been seriously considering 6 point harnesses for the Matrix, as well as a Corbeau FIA seat. Is it safe to mount harness hooks/mounts like this Mimi (without harness bar/roll bar) or should I get a Harness bar?

DISCUSSION (17)

Clown Shoe Pilot > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
11/24/2015 at 00:55

I believe that’s probably a spinal injury waiting to happen

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Clown Shoe Pilot
11/24/2015 at 00:57

how?

Clown Shoe Pilot > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
11/24/2015 at 01:02

spinal compression.

Also, here’s a diagram from Schroth:

Kinja'd!!!

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Clown Shoe Pilot
11/24/2015 at 01:04

I get what you mean. I’m just talking about the basic rear mounting method

Sam > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
11/24/2015 at 01:09

The novelty wears off fast. I'd say don’t do it unless it’s a caged track car. Just ask Matt Farah about the pains of racing seats and 6 points in his Corvette. They aren't any safer than a 3 point in normal collisions anyways. They're mostly to secure a driver better in a high speed, high momentum crash, where there tends to be lots of flipping.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Sam
11/24/2015 at 01:11

Yeah, I think not. There are some serious issues with this setup..

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Sam
11/24/2015 at 01:13

I’m mostly using this for the twisties & autocross but retaining stock belts for street use.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
11/24/2015 at 01:14

Angles... Leverage... Blah blah blah. No. Even worse is that those headrest bars go through plastic guides. They’re meant to support the weight and momentum of your head in a crash, not seat belts with your body weight as well. That being said it’s probably still safer than vehicle from the 60's.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > AMGtech - now with more recalls!
11/24/2015 at 02:25

Just read http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/05/five-p… by Jack Baruth. I’m going to go with stock belts, racing seats, and a CG-lock.

Gripevo1 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
11/24/2015 at 03:02

Look into scroths asm harness setup that uses the oem mounting points for the rear seatbelts. Not perfect but way better than mounting them to the floor.

The only really decent way to mount harnesses is to have a rollbar/cage(preferably a good quality welded cage with reinforced bases), a fia spec bucket seat, good 5/6pt harnesses mounted to the cage and properly reinforced areas for the lap belts(i.e. the stock 3pt lower mounting positions).And driving said car with a helmet if the cage bars are close to your head(cages + your head dont mix).

Obviously a setup like this makes dailying a car awful to live with, so there is going to be comprimises somewhere. Im planning on getting the vehicle specific scroth asm setup for my mustang, but only use it for autox. For the street the stock 3 pt and airbags will work fine :)

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Gripevo1
11/24/2015 at 03:25

I’m reconsidering this setup, for my stock 3pt seatbelt, a CG lock, an FIA spec seat, and a helmet (for autocross).

random001 > Clown Shoe Pilot
11/24/2015 at 06:34

I don’t understand what the top part of that diagram is trying to show...

JGrabowMSt > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
11/24/2015 at 06:47

By regulation, you wouldnt be allowed to race without the proper harness setup. You’d be safer with the regular 3 point compared to a 5 or 6 link thats set up incorrectly.

jkm7680 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
11/24/2015 at 07:33

Unless it’s a dedicated track car, don’t do it. You don’t need a six point harness for twisties.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
11/24/2015 at 08:05

Don’t drive with a fixed back seat on the street without a cage. If you get in a rollover, your head will be crushed instead of the seat collapsing

BKRM3 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
11/24/2015 at 11:28

Your picture is of a product by Schroth called the “quick fit,” which is a 4-point harness (I believe you can make it 5-point by adding a sub strap) that makes use of a car’s OEM seatbelt attachment points and, importantly, seatbelt pre-tensioners. That product was designed to be used as shown in the picture, and was tested using the stock seats and headrests. If you retain your stock 3-points, stock seats and add “quick fits” (if they sell them specifically for your model car) that’ll probably give you what you’re looking for in terms of street convenience and autocross-appropriate support. In fact, I used Schroth quick fits in my E90 M3 for HPDE use, which allowed me to wear a HANS. They should NOT be used with aftermarket seats, especially fixed-back FIA seats. The quick fits with HANS were way better for track use than the stock 3 point, and I had very little/no reservations regarding spinal compression risk. If I’m going to be going that fast, I’m overwhelmingly more concerned with being able to have a head and neck restraint system. If you’re doing auto-x and street driving, the quick fits will be better than the stock belts, but frankly I’m not sure they’d be worth the cost in that situation. Try the stock belt with a CG lock first.

In any event, the Schroth 4-points w/a stock seat will not give you the same level of restraint or communication as a real race bucket. Unfortunately, if you want to use fixed back seats and harnesses (which I absolutely would not do in a street car because it’s a major pain in the ass), you need traditional 5 or 6-point harnesses and at least a half cage. Period.

It’s really tempting to throw in a racing seat because they’re cheap-ish and look cool, but those are part of a more comprehensive safety system, none of which works properly unless all the elements are in place.

DarrenMR > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
12/05/2015 at 20:18

Ive seen several people mention spinal injuries with this setup but these are pretty common in MINIs, and that looks to be a MINI in the pic as well. Im not really sure myself.