Next little bit of work on the spitfire done :)

"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228) 11/23/2015 at 08:11 • Filed to: Spit6

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There’s a bit of an issue with overheating and subsequent cavitation on both the stock pi lucas pump and the bosch replacements a number of companies sell.

So, this is the beginnings of my solution. I’ve cut a little patch out of the rear of the car and welded in some mesh where there should be a low pressure recirculation when the car’s at speed. I’ve also done a similar thing to the rear face of the axle tunnel which will hopefully be a higher pressure area when the car’s in motion.

The net effect of this should be a flow of air over the pump which will be mounted on the boot floor and covered in a box, thereby keeping it cool.

For extra cooling, and cooling while stationary, I’ll put a cooling coil in the pipe feeding the pump, and underneath that mount a small 12v electric fan pulling air up through the floor of the boot, cooling the fuel and thus cooling the pump.

The little fan will be wired into the radiator fan at the front so it should only cut in when it’s stationary in traffic or running extra hot. Also, by mounting it away from the other vents the fan won’t block any flow when the cars moving :)

TheRealBicycleBuck > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 08:18

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Why not find some generic in-tank pump? That would eliminate the need for the Rube-Goldberg cooling solution.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > TheRealBicycleBuck 11/23/2015 at 08:30

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I want to stick with the Lucas PI system as, apart from the pump (which was demanded by Triumph as a cost-cutting measure, against the advice of Lucas), it’s actually a really rather good injection system. It’s motorsports derived, and the injectors are way ahead of most modern injectors. They spray a fine cone of fuel into the intake rather than a concentrated jet, helping atomisation.

The downside to that system is it needs a very high pressure fuel pump. The pressure regulator is set to 110psi, and there’s only a handful of other pumps that work that high in the flow rate that’s needed.

Also, there’s no inbuilt swirl-pot in the Spitfire tank (or GT6 tank as I'm using), meaning that if the fuel level’s a bit low and I go through a long sweeper at full chat the mixture could lean out dramatically and cause all kinds of problems with pinking and other nasty things. So, seeing as I need to take the fuel out of the tank and into an external swirl pot, there doesn’t seem to be much to be gained from piping it back in again...

TheRealBicycleBuck > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 08:38

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Excellent response. I knew nothing about Triumph fuel systems, but your explanation made the problem clear. I look forward to further installments on your build!

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > TheRealBicycleBuck 11/23/2015 at 08:53

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Thanks man :) hopefully it should be all wrapped up by August next year so I can take it to GoodWood in September.

Watch that slip though, bound to happen...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 09:36

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The long slow process of unrubbishing a rubbish car through lots of welding continues. Been there - though I must say this is far more optional welding than most.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/23/2015 at 09:41

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It definitely feels odd cutting into perfectly good metal as opposed to rusty crusty crap...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 10:12

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My most recent work was a bit of a mix - the off-chopping of the roof and removal of the rear of the cab. Some solid and fresh blasted metal there, but also a but of manky evil.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/23/2015 at 10:24

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Removal of the rear of the cab? What’s happening back there?

Same with the roof actually. Is that for the T-tops?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 10:29

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Rear of the cab is for reworking how all that works back there a bit - converting it to a mid-gate. There’s also some rust repair that’s better off with it out of the way, and it makes floor building easier. The roof hacking-up is for T-tops and building in some tube structure with a bunch of DOM. Got a friend and co-worker who has a rollcage bender that’ll help me out with that bit.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/23/2015 at 10:55

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I’m planning to do a little roll-bar for the Spitfire. Bit of a better design than most Spit roll-bars as the fuel tank’s moved to the boot meaning I can get a bit more of an angle on the bars going backwards.

Planning to bend it on a standard tube-bender though so that might be tricky if you've got proper rollcage benders :S what's the difficulty?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 11:01

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I was delighted to hear that he had the bender, which should do everything I want done perfectly. He even has rollcage software for planning out bends, calculating stretch, and so on. He used to work in a hot rod shop and (among other things) has been involved in a record-holding sandrail drag machine and a nitrous-burning Anglia drag car on a tube frame. O_O. No more tubing than I’m bending up for the Ranchero, it should go swimmingly. A piece paired with each A-pillar, a front windscreen hoop between, two B-pillar posts that make a hoop over the rear window, and two pieces for rear suspension links. Only seven pieces bent overall, most with 1-2 bends.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/23/2015 at 11:16

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Very nice :)

I need to pick up a GT6 to have a go at constructing a rollcage. Not entirely certain it’s worth it on my little car as there’ll be little enough space as it is.

Might give it a go at some point though...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 11:26

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I need to have Jay send me those pictures of the Anglia he showed me, so I can pass them along to you. Ron Weasley... at 1000HP (yes, it’s a crook-roof one and everything). How an Anglia wound up in Texas I can’t imagine, but that’s where this was. Here’s a picture of a very similar one in Europe - I think Jay’s one was also dark and on drag mags:

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/23/2015 at 11:29

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It’s nuts what people will do to Anglias. I saw one at a recent race event that was luminous green, tube-framed and running a high boost Cosworth YBT.

Must be the surprise factor. I always thought they were fairly staid...

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 11:30

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What happens when it rains?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 11/23/2015 at 11:35

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That did occur to me. I’m hoping that the chassis and diff just in front of the inlet will shield the majority of the water. If not, then I’ll have to rig up a little screen to catch the water outside of the boot so it doesn’t wend it’s way inside...

Needs some testing...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 11:38

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I think the fun of it is to have such a lightweight and flimsy factory body. Useful in a class with a factory body requirement, otherwise just plain fun. The ‘40/’41 Willys in this country got used so much for that there’s scarcely a single factory one left. The Anglia I was shown pictures of had, I think, a stroked/offset ground 400 small-block Chevrolet (can’t recall what the end displacement was, around 500). 8L in a tissue paper-metal compact -well, that’s the power to weight ratio solved if not the weight distribution...

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/23/2015 at 11:47

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Bloody hell! That thing must be monstrous.

Oh, I found a rather interesting GT6 racer at Brands the other day. He’d put the roll cage through the front firewall and bolted it to the front suspension uprights to locate them a bit better. Very clever.

Apparently he’d solid mounted the body to the chassis, but kept stripping the bolts that held it in! I said why didn’t he weld 20 more nuts into the chassis and stick 20 more bolts in which should work in theory :)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 11:53

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The only exposed bits of cage on the Ranchero (unless I put shock tower-to-cage braces in) are two posts running down almost-but-not-quite parallel to the A-pillars, and through the metal dash. I’ve managed to have the rest of the caging laid out to be in the roofline out of sight, inside the B-pillars, inside the front part of the rear quarters behind the doors, under the dash, and under the swing of the midgate. I oughten’t to kill myself hiding it that much, but it’s as much around not wanting lumpy bits of tube to bang one’s head on as anything.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/23/2015 at 11:57

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Very nice :) yeah it’s the banging my head on the cage that’s got me thinking about not doing it in a car as small as a Spit/GT6...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 12:02

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I should be able even to have some headliner cloth in place. That, or a thin flexible 1/8” furniture plywood mounted like headliner, because if I’m going iconoclastic on so many things already, why not?

On that GT6 - what’s the rest of his induction look like? I see the felt hats, but that’s not informative 100% as to whether he’s got TBs or Webers or what.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 12:16

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Might also want to think about some kind of air-filter sort of thingy, to keep dirt/bugs/small stones/etc out on dry days.

It’s going to give you a good excuse if you ever get pulled over, though. ‘Do you know how fast you were going?’ ‘Yes officer, I was going just fast enough to stop the fuel pump overheating’.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 11/23/2015 at 17:07

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I wonder how well that would fly with your average copper....

Yeah that might not be a bad idea. Even if it’s just a little screen or something. I’d have to do some testing with a camera and some little tufts of wool to see if I still get airflow through with a filter...

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/23/2015 at 17:17

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Ooh, I like the idea of the wooden headliner. Serious props if you can make it like floorboards or decking:

He’s running triple Webers. Partially because you can get similar power to injection and partially because the class he’s running in mandates sticking with the stock induction type (FI if it’s FI, carbs if it’s carbs or turbo if it’s turbo etc.).

He said he was getting about 195bhp from it but I’m a little skeptical of that. I’ve heard a lot about how restrictive the individual sock filters are, losing out a good dozen or so horsepower to a proper panel filter on moderately powered engines like a Triumph I6.

Also, he had a 6-3-1 manifold but it’s one of the commercial ones that (although much better than a non 6-3-1) is a bit of a flawed design with very unequal length primaries.

Also his intake runners didn’t look like they were a tuned length suited to his desired rpm range. They just looked like stock trumpets stuck on Webers stuck on a commonly available manifold.

You probably need all of that to hit 100bhp/l in a Triumph I6, although the revs you can get out of a 2.0l probably help...

In short, I think I could do it better :)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/23/2015 at 17:24

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Sounds like he’s well sorted, but not well enough. Did you see my posting earlier in the day about brake nonsense? I’ve got the front brakes unstuck on my ‘59 Lincoln Wooly Mammoth, but taking a look at the power brake booster (curiousity) left me in bafflement. Turns out it’s a piston and cylinder monstrosity made by Bendix, that uses a leather cylinder seal and has an integral cylinder to the booster setup.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/23/2015 at 17:48

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I didn’t but that sounds rather wacky :S thinking of trying to fix that or heading down to the scrapyard and pulling a vacuum one off another large car and retrofitting?

Yeah, he was nearly there but not quite and it showed in his laptimes.

There was, however, a TR5 there that was blisteringly quick. He was lapping in the mid 54 seconds on Brands Hatch Indy, vying for first place in qualifying with an extremely well driven smallblock Camaro (the race was called off due to heavy fog causing a number of crashes).

To put that into perspective the race-winning BMW E46 M3 racecar in another class was lapping only a half-second quicker. Other cars that were slower, but still at the cutting edge of their races were a 308 GTB (placed 1st), a Sierra Cosworth (placed 3rd) and an E90 M3 (placed 3rd).

Actually. Better perspective. Of all the 124 cars that ran that weekend, only 9 turned a faster lap.

What on earth he had going on with that car I do not know. He was keeping it very under wraps. I did get a peek at the rear suspension which was tubular and modified, and the engine block had to remain the same as stock for the class rules. It’s amazing what you can get out of a properly prepared car from 1969, using an engine that’s derived from a 50s pedestrian inline 4...

In case you hadn’t noticed, I’m astounded!