Rolling Coal and the Volkswagen Emissions Scandal

"Saazbaru" (saazbaru) 11/23/2015 at 03:48 • Filed to: VW Diesel Scandal

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A Duramax 2500 HD is cruising down the highway at 83 miles and hour in the left lane. As the truck driver passes a Prius in the lane to his right, he hits a switch that momentarily reprograms the engine management of his 6.6 liter diesel V8 to inject far too much fuel into its cylinders. Rolling clouds of black smoke billow from vertically mounted smoke stacks behind the cab. Pleased that he effectively offended the Prius driver, the truck driver accelerates more rolling a cloud of coal behind him on the highway.

As we’ve all learned this fall, thanks to Volkswagen’s cheating on their diesel emissions tests, the company faces fines of up to $22,775 per car in violation. VW has been rolling coal on all of us for a while now. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (thanks to The Truth About Cars) ends up with a total fine of $3,262,518,776. While it’s perhaps easy to villainize VW and feel content about every penny they end up getting fined, I think the entire situation bears considering.

First, we need to look at why this happened in the first place. Yes, Volkswagen was faced with a daunting engineering challenge in trying to get its diesel cars to pass revised emissions regulations and decided, instead of facing that challenge, to simply circumvent the emissions laws. The engineering staff as well as numerous executives have already either been fired or are on indefinite leave. There obviously need to be financial consequences though the potential settlement in VW’s case could dwarf what other car companies paid for arguably worse infractions and oversights. We can look at other recent recalls for example. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! VW didn’t kill anybody.

Some people, including Elon Musk, are using this as an opportunity to show the world how we need to transition to electric vehicles and how electric vehicles will lead us to a better future. Right now, all Elon is hoping is that we will !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! by embracing electric cars en masse. Because I wouldn’t bet on electrics as our savior. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , creating the high-density lithium ion batteries required for an electric car with an acceptable range is extremely energy intensive. This makes it a hard argument that electrics are even that environmentally friendly as most of the energy used to both make the batteries and power the vehicles come from environmentally unfriendly energy sources that supply the majority of the energy to the power grid. Not only that, but the rare earth elements required to make the power dense lithium ion batteries are difficult and very damaging to extract from the earth and to manufacture into batteries. There is a lot of promise in this technology, don’t get me wrong, but it isn’t mature enough yet to be the only solution.

That still leaves us with Volkswagen’s initial problem that lead to the whole issue: heightened emissions standards for diesel cars. Current emissions targets are unreasonable. Let me explain for a minute. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! horridly reflects real world driving. Emissions and fuel economy under this test cycle are vastly improved from what they are in the real world. The only people who benefit from this are Washington lawmakers. Congressmen sitting on committees get to show-off their aggressive new targets for automakers. But no one else wins. Well, perhaps also people more concerned with feeling like they are saving the environment than with the realities of the problems the planet is facing. Automakers are saddled with more and more unrealistic targets and customers are given cars with mileage ratings that mean little in the real world. I by no means propose to going back to the 1960s where all cars spewed noxious exhaust gases with abandon but wouldn’t it make sense if the standards our cars were passing accurately reflected how they perform in the real world?

So what would solve the problems? The issues with Volkswagen have already occurred; we can’t reverse those. But if we created sensible real-world emissions testing and regulations, we would be on our way to eliminating a major factor of what caused the problems in the first place. And VW’s emissions conundrum can in fact be solved. By treating diesel exhaust with AdBlue, we can clean up the particulates and other pollutants remarkably well. So why didn’t VW use AdBlue? That’s simple; they decided it was too expensive. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! That’s something will just have to deal with. Diesel and diesel hybrids with the appropriate urea exhaust treatment are the best currently feasible technologies for making environmentally friendly cars now.

Images courtesy of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

bob and john > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 04:21

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I give you.....6 hours before someone launches into a rant of OHH BUT DEM DUR EMISSIONS ARE MAKIN’ MUH AIR DIRTY AND I IS DYING FROM IT.

ehh. between what VW has farted out in the past year, compared to what 2 or 3 cruise ships have,....

Leon711 > bob and john 11/23/2015 at 04:53

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Or 1 or 2 Chinese coal powers that they seem to be opening every week.

jkm7680 > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 07:28

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Couldn’t have said it better.

Like, GM actually killed multiple people. I’m 99% sure every car maker out there has cheated on emissions.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 07:53

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Vortecs are gas engines. The diesel engines are Duramax.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > bob and john 11/23/2015 at 07:54

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HER DUR, MUH FEELZ!

FazeRacer > jkm7680 11/23/2015 at 07:56

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Yes but did GM kill those people on purpose? VW is being made an example of, try to cheat and we will fuck you.

BigBlock440 > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 07:57

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You’re off by $865 million for GM’s fines...

http://jalopnik.com/gm-to-pay-900-…

Tripper > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 08:24

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Wait, there are actually switches/fuel maps for rolling coal? I thought it was just a side effect of having a tuned diesel truck with an open exhaust.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 08:31

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Jesus, you haven’t read much if your gonna pull the damn GM card again. The NHSTA levied the highest fine they possibly could, did GM deserve more? Probably, but guess what? They couldn’t be. The EPA has the power to give a higher fine, and they did. The EPA couldn’t give less of a shit about GM and their crash stuff, and they shouldn’t.

One of the world’s largest corporations decided to systematically break emissions laws, why do they deserve a break? Because the emissions test can be easily gamed? Thats fucking ridiculous.

If you can’t meet the requirements of regulations, don’t sell the fucking car. Adapt or die.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > bob and john 11/23/2015 at 08:33

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You could make a cocaine habit seem mild when speaking in relatives. Doesn’t mean its good.

Captain_Spadaro > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 08:46

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his Vortec diesel V8

His DURAMAX diesel V8.

wiffleballtony > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 08:52

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“Not only that, but the rare earth elements required to make the power dense lithium ion batteries are difficult and very damaging to extract from the earth and to manufacture into batteries.”

I think it also bears considering where these elements are located. You could very likely create a worse OPEC.

AudiAudiOxenFree > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 11/23/2015 at 09:38

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Or don’t come up with shitty, meaningless, untestable regulations so that lawmakers can pat each other on the back.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > AudiAudiOxenFree 11/23/2015 at 09:41

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Meaningless, eh?

AudiAudiOxenFree > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 11/23/2015 at 10:30

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Yes, because the new 2.0 “illegal” VAG diesel pollutes less than the old “legal” 1.9l VAG diesel, you know the most produced diesel engine in the world. Because fucktards can still remove soot filters from their duramax trucks, because china can make coal plants with absolutely no scrubbers. Because a hand-full of container ships alone pollute more than all the cars in the world combined. Context my friend, the amount of extra pollution the 2.0 VAG diesels create is statistically meaningless, in the context of other offenders.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > AudiAudiOxenFree 11/23/2015 at 10:39

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Then why do anything? There is always something worse, is it okay if I steal your wallet because I didn’t steal your car? No that’s fucking idiotic. Should car makers not be required to sell cars with seat belts since there are cars on the roads without them? Again, fucking no.

And again, THEY BROKE THE FUCKING LAW. They knew the risks and deserve every fucking cent that they are fined.

PS9 > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 10:55

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I don’t have any sympathy for VW. They could have just put the urea filter on the car. $200/car vs. $11,000 per car in fines. The choice is pretty obvious there, and VW made the wrong one. You can’t even make the argument that this would make them less competitive with other diesels on the market because 1) What other diesels? 2) The few that were in the market had it as well.

Also, the bulk of the fines won’t come from the US; it will come from the EU. Millions more cheating diesels were sold there vs. 100k or so here.

PS9 > AudiAudiOxenFree 11/23/2015 at 11:00

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Lobbying would have to die off/become illegal for that to stop.

In other words, it’s not going to stop.

Saazbaru > wiffleballtony 11/23/2015 at 11:16

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True. Very true. China and Russia have the largest (and in some cases the only) supply of a lot of the required resources for making high density batteries.

Saazbaru > Tripper 11/23/2015 at 11:18

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It depends on how it’s done. You can just remove the particulate filters and urea etc. but a different fuel map will exacerbate the effect. In effect they’re trying to get the engine to burn on a cycle where it creates more particulates.

Saazbaru > jkm7680 11/23/2015 at 11:20

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Thanks! I had to write a public opinion in my field of study for an English class so I decided to modify it a bit and post it on Oppo.

Saazbaru > Captain_Spadaro 11/23/2015 at 11:20

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Oops I did mess that up, didn’t I. I’ll go an correct it now?

Saazbaru > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 11/23/2015 at 11:20

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yeah I see that now... thank you!

Saazbaru > BigBlock440 11/23/2015 at 11:23

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Why do most news outlet’s quote it as $35 million then? (not saying you’re not right, just wondering.) Regardless, $900 million is still a good bit less than ~$3.5 billion.

Saazbaru > PS9 11/23/2015 at 11:24

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I do actually agree with you. I hope that came out in my post that I do think VW should pay their fines but a diesel with $355 dollars worth of urea injection equipment (in the future) is a great environmentally friendly car.

Saazbaru > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 11/23/2015 at 11:29

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Obviously you feel very strongly about this and that’s totally fine. We don’t happen to completely agree. Ultimately, yeah they should be fined. But the fact that you get fined less for hiding 1700 deaths from federal investigators than for cheating on emissions tests is ridiculous. And while we’re at it revising that bit of ridiculousness, we could also come up with accurate real-world testing of reasonable difficult but achievable emissions standards. You have read the reports that basically everything that’s tested in a lab does much worse in the real world, right?

AudiAudiOxenFree > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 11/23/2015 at 11:36

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Why not focus on issues that actually matter? I think VW should be fined, but what they did really didn’t matter.

BigBlock440 > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 11:40

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VW hasn’t been fined one cent yet. the 35 million was a completely separate fine, in addition to the 900 million. Neither issue is over yet, you’re just speculating on the outcome. Also, a fine 3 times as large for an intentional circumvention of regulations than the fine for putting in a shitty part and not fixing it, I don’t see the issue. That’s the point of fines, to disincentiveize breaking the law.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 11:40

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Are you saying the EPA should fine Volkswagen less or the NHSTA should fine GM more? (As mentioned earlier they legally could not have done that)

And we should revise the emissions tests, but that doesnt change the fact that the current ones exist. My opinion of a law does not change the fact that it exists.

Tripper > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 11:40

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Gotcha, that is crazy that anyone would set up a map/switch just to “roll coal”. A friend of mine has a gigantic diesel truck. tuned, exhaust straight back, and it only spits black smoke when he stomps on it from a stand still, even then it’s not much.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > AudiAudiOxenFree 11/23/2015 at 11:45

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Because the EPA has only so much scope, they cant dictate what happens outside of the US, and many have actively lobbied to prevent there scope within the US. And there is also the issue of if Volkswagen gets off with a slap on the wrist what reason do other car companies have to not cheat as well?

AudiAudiOxenFree > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 11/23/2015 at 11:47

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VW lost 25% of the value of their ENTIRE company and are getting fined $4bn and are spending $2bn on compensation and fixes... and you think thats a slap on the wrist? The entire company could go down.

Saazbaru > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 11/23/2015 at 11:51

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I’m saying that relatively, I don’t think what VW did was as bad as what GM did. So I think that the fine should reflect that.

And even though the current laws exist, that shouldn’t stop us from expressing an opinion about them.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > AudiAudiOxenFree 11/23/2015 at 11:57

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Sure they lost 25%, but much of that was fears based on the potential fines. Much of that value would return in the event of no fines.

And while Volkswagens efforts may make the fine less severe, they still defrauded customers and fucked with the US government. All the damage control in the world doesn’t change that.

AudiAudiOxenFree > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 11/23/2015 at 11:59

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umm, ok, right, so why are you saying they are getting a slap on the wrist?

Saazbaru > BigBlock440 11/23/2015 at 12:00

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But shitty parts killed people. That’s an issue in my opinion.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 12:02

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Thats where the issues of different agencies come in. I highly doubt the EPA will take the NHSTA’s fine into consideration since if they could Id bet the NHSTA would have fined GM billions.

And yeah, opinions are fine among us, however, those responsible for determining a fine should not be swayed by opinion but by the letter of the law.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > AudiAudiOxenFree 11/23/2015 at 12:06

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Oh I’m not, yet at least. The fine hasn’t been determined yet, so I cant say for certain. But I am saying in the event that the fine is too low it could not only not discourage future cheating among manufactures, but encourage it because the potential consequences in the event of being caught are lower than the benefits.

BigBlock440 > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 12:09

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They unintentionally turned the engines off. How do you combat shitty parts? With standards and regulations that a vehicle must pass before it’s sold. Standards and regulations the VW blatantly ignored.

One example is “oh crap, this part is shitty and people are crashing. Lets fix it and not tell anybody”. The other is “the law says we need to pass these regulations that literally every other passenger vehicle has to pass to be sold here. Fuck that, I’ll do what I want. And you’ll like it.”

Saazbaru > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 11/23/2015 at 12:10

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If you’re saying I might have influence over the EPA and the Justice Department, I’m flattered but I think you would be overestimating my influence. Ultimately my goal in my post was to comment on the law whether it is the incongruity where an automaker criminally connected to 124 deaths and 400+ injuries pays less than a regulatory infraction or if the law is current emissions laws which do not accurately reflect how any car behaves in the real world.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 12:16

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That wasn’t what I was trying to say, that why I put in the among us part.

And you’re right. Its the price we pay for deleberatly shackling our regulatory agencies. Some people getting off way to easy.

Spoon II > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 15:39

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I’ve been arguing the same thing. While they should be held accountable, they didn’t willfully cover up something that was actively killing people. For that reason, I find it much easier to forgive VW then GM

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Tripper 11/23/2015 at 15:44

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Aftermarket power programmers such as a Banks or Bullydog unit have numerous power/economy settings that can be changed at the push of a button, so yeah...

Nauraushaun > Saazbaru 11/23/2015 at 17:14

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This makes it a hard argument that electrics are even that environmentally friendly as most of the energy used to both make the batteries and power the vehicles come from environmentally unfriendly energy sources that supply the majority of the energy to the power grid.

I hate this argument. Yes, moving the fossil fuel burden away from cars moves it elsewhere. But that’s not a bad thing, nor is it an argument against electric cars. If cars are cleaning up their act it’s a big win. Making grid generation cleaner is the next goal, that’s all.

To imply that making cars cleaner just relies on fossil fuels anyway and there’s nothing we can do about that so lets not try...isn’t a solution.

Saazbaru > Nauraushaun 11/23/2015 at 18:20

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Well I’m not saying don’t try. But I think it’s hard to argue electrics are a viable solution to replace all gasoline powered cars right now.

There is however a really good argument for electrics. An electric car as a system has the greatest thermal efficiency (which is what we’re really trying to maximize) of any type of powertrain. So this ultimately (once the technology can solve things like road trip anxiety) makes electrics a very good choice. I just don’t think we’re there yet.

Dru > bob and john 11/24/2015 at 16:44

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I have only been on one cruise, it was a Carnival, and that tail thing that is kind of their signature is basically a huge smoke stack. It would occasionally emit a mostly translucent cloud of smoke, but it was high enough up that you really couldn’t smell anything. I never thought of how much they are emitting, in terms of grams per km or what have you.

Dru > Tripper 11/24/2015 at 16:46

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he sounds like a sensible lad who is only concerned with making more power, not more smoke. Smoke does not equal power. It equals wasted fuel.

bob and john > Dru 11/24/2015 at 17:41

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hint: they have engines putting out tens of thousands of horspower and they are moving quiet literally a large apartment building through water.

its a lot

Dru > bob and john 11/25/2015 at 08:19

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To be exact, the Carnival Fantasy puts out 42,240 kW combined through either two or four engines. Or maybe six. I’m not good at reading ship specs.

But yea, that's a lot of rolled coal.