Cayman S: 1 year, 4 track days and 15 AutoX's; time for a change

"NervesOfThrill" (adrenalingus) 11/20/2015 at 15:53 • Filed to: None

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After an exhaustive search that I documented here on Oppo to choose my Cayman S a year ago , sadly I find the car,,,,,,, well,,,,,,, a little boring.

The car has many fine points, but the majority are only revealed on a track mind you. Therein lies the rub. As a back road car, it is too composed, the limits are too high and it lacks the low end torque, tossability to be thrilling.

So I am looking for cars to consider as a replacement. I want my next car to be a little more raw, fun and vibrant. I’ve kicked around the usual suspects:

240/260/280Z: my 1st choice except the market is out of line for these cars due to the staggering appreciation of the last 2 years. Pros-light, fun; Cons-price is silly nowadays.

E46 M3: always dreamed of one and is a serious contender. Pros-wonderful engine, leans towards oversteer for fun factor; Cons-too common.

TVR 2500M/3500M: probably the front runner despite being more challenging to find. Pros-unique, exotic; Cons-engine swap is almost a requirement.

BRZ/FRS: kinda on the list but not really. Pros-cheap, fun chassis; Cons-not enough power, a little too boy racer in looks maybe, super common here.

Ford Focus ST: have not driven yet but if it is the smile factory it is rumored to be it is tempting; Pros-cheap and fun; Cons-it is the ugly duckling of the group.

WANT: light, fun and fast

HATE: AWD

So what cars am I missing?

FazeRacer > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 15:58

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get a frs/brz and throw a turbo on there. The cost of the car should be cheap enough that the extra for the modifications wouldn’t be too bad.

TractorPillow > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 15:59

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Lotus Elise. Amazing back road car. I miss it so much. Most fun car imaginable. Throw a SC or turbo on it if you want more power - what I woulda done had I kept it. I drove a cayman S while I owned the elise and was bored out of my mind. I didn't know what all the hype was about and was very excited to get back in the lotus. Seriously, you won't regret it - and if you find a good deal you'll at least break even on selling it (I made 2.5 k on mine after 2 years and 13000 glorious miles)

Mustafaluigi > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:01

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C5/C6?

Future next gen S2000 owner > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:01

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Mustang/Camaro little heavier, but more power than anything else on the list. Both are fun and fast.

Best of previous generations in a decent price bracket

Boss 302 or Laguna Seca edition - Just as fast around Laguna Seca as a contemporary M3.

Camaro 1LE or Z28 if you want a big step up.

Edit: a S2000. Love, love, love, love me some S2000.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Mustafaluigi 11/20/2015 at 16:03

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C5Z is very good. C6Z’s are coming down in price as well.

jjhats > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:03

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ill trade you my fost lets make a deal ;)

djmt1 > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:05

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Sounds like you want a Lotus and being a Cayman owner (& hopefully of a smaller frame) you will be right at home... mostly.

vondon302 > Future next gen S2000 owner 11/20/2015 at 16:07

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Came to say this.

Fun meter maxed.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:09

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Corvette

AM3R shamefully returns > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:11

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E92 M3 would be a good choice.

Z4M coupe is even better, S54 out of an E46 M3 but it's a few hundred pounds lighter IIRC. Definitely not common either!

Textured Soy Protein > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:11

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BMW Z4 M or Honda S2000

Old Red Wagon > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:12

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Since you mentioned the Focus ST maybe a MK VII GTI? With a tune people are getting 300 horsepower to the wheels. Very fun car. Granted it’s a bit more refined than the FoST since you said you were looking for something a bit more raw. The GTi does not have the torque steer the FoST has. To you that might be a bad thing but i did NOT like the torque steer from the Ford.

TractorPillow > djmt1 11/20/2015 at 16:14

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That’s what I said! It truly is the answer for a Cayman owner that wants more fun.

fourvalleys > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:20

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I’ve had a chance to drive some BRZ/FR-S of varied power levels (from the ~160hp stock all the way up to almost 500hp), and it’s hard to describe how good it feels around 280-300whp. Having said that, that power level might still put the ceiling a little high for back road cruising.

Given your choices, I’d probably go with an E46. Of course, that’s coming from someone who is considering going from BRZ to Fiesta ST....

whatisthatsound > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:33

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A dodge viper.

E92M3 > vondon302 11/20/2015 at 16:34

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I was going to say Boss 302 as well. If you can get past the interior quality coming from a Porsche, it definitely has character. Should hold it’s value fairly well too.

Opposite Locksmith > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:34

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Don’t a brz, I drive my daily, WRX and my girlfriends base impreza. Went to drive a buddies brz and the power was disappointing “feeling” power wise even compared to the NA impreza despite having less hp. I feel like it's treason but I'm not a fan of the twins. E46 M3 would be so fun and toss able

Opposite Locksmith > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:35

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Redundant mentioning of power sorry mobile doesn't let me see what I type

vondon302 > E92M3 11/20/2015 at 16:41

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Too true.

Dr_Watson > TractorPillow 11/20/2015 at 16:47

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Coming from a Cayman... Might want to find a 2012* or newer Evora so as not to be completely shattered by the huge downgrade in comfort going to an Elise. Evora however has almost identical DD usability as a Cayman with the added zest of Lotus chassis. Also there are the other bonus compared to the Elise being +more power +more exotic +more rarity. Which seem to matter to the OP.

*2012 is the magic year when the bugs were pretty well sorted. Source: I spent a lot of time shopping Evora’s last year.

Speed > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 16:58

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If considering the FoST, how about the FiST? If going that far, how about the Abarth 500? You can get a low mile Abarth for like 12k.

If considering an E46 M3, how about a clownshoe as well?

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 17:07

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The e46 M3 actually leans towards understeer until you go for a square setup if I’m not mistaken.

That said, how about an s2000 or Lotus?

Tareim - V8 powered > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 17:15

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Fiat 124 :D

DW78 > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 17:23

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C5 Z06. Although limits are extremely high (higher than the Cayman), the torque can overwhelm the rear tires at any speed you feel like! Fast as hell on the track and damn near bulletproof running gear. Can be had in very good shape and low mileage for around $20k.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 17:35

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I don’t think you would like the old Z’s they are downright primitive. The porsche is luxurious by comparison. How about a Caterham Super 7?

BarryDanger > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 17:35

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Are you daily driving it or is it just a toy?

LS RX7

Restomod truck like a C10 or F100

MR2 Turbo

E36 M3 Turbo

Datsun 510 with KA24DET

Roadster Man > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 18:23

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Elise, E36 M3, M coupe all come to mind. As for modern cars, maybe a BMW M235i.

It also sounds like you want a car that nobody else around you has, what about a Mercedes 190E 2.3/2.5 16V cosworth? The E30 M3 competitor can be had to 1/6-1/3 the price of the average E30 M3...

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 18:53

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No thoughts of a Miata? You sound like back road fun is a high priority. Sure it may be low on peak power but if you get an NB with VVT it really is rather linear. I mean you could always find a cheap NA though and mod the power to all hell. If modding is definitely not your scene but you still need power, I'd say check out an S2K. Also, there may be other porsches worth looking at. Air cooled could be fun!

NervesOfThrill > Future next gen S2000 owner 11/20/2015 at 19:48

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I looked hard at the S2000 before grabbing the Cayman S, but as a DD it is a tough one: no storage inside, no trunk space, can’t hold golf clubs except in the passenger seat. If it was a 2nd car, it would be in top tier.

NervesOfThrill > E92M3 11/20/2015 at 19:51

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These are the leading suggestion. I can see why after watching Boss 302 videos. A little bigger than what I had planned on, but might have to drive one!

B_dol > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 19:51

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Owned a modded FR-S for 50K miles, you won’t be happy with the stock performance coming from a Cayman. While it is built in a similar ethos, the FRS really does need some bolt-ons to wake up. Careful on the modding slope, it goes south quickly.

I was deadset on a 987.1S as a replacement for mine and wound up in a Z4M. The /M has more character, exclusivity and unabashed torque which makes it awesome. The seating/chassis layout is not as centered as the cayman/brz which can feel odd at first (the hood extends forever).

Maybe also look an FD Rx7 for project car fun.

NervesOfThrill > vondon302 11/20/2015 at 19:51

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Nice, love the red one!

m2m, apex detective > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 19:56

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Are these unobtainium to you or did you simply not think of them?

NervesOfThrill > TractorPillow 11/20/2015 at 20:01

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A guy brought one to a PCA autox event and I got to take a look at it and run behind him. Unreal how quick and agile that little car was, but it was a bit too spartan inside for me to DD it. Perfect 2nd car though.

NervesOfThrill > Dr_Watson 11/20/2015 at 20:26

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That is a great suggestion! I’ve always loved the looks of the Evora and in S form it has about the same power as the Cayman S, but the supercharger changes everything the delivery of it. If I can find an S at the right price, this will get test driven.

NervesOfThrill > djmt1 11/20/2015 at 20:27

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6’0”, 198lbs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, might be a challenge like the Z4M was.

NervesOfThrill > Mustafaluigi 11/20/2015 at 20:29

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Love many things about them and they might make the list yet. I just flat hate the interior of both generations. It has stopped me 2-3 times as I switched cars.

NervesOfThrill > Speed 11/20/2015 at 20:35

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The FiST is definitely interesting too. I think I’d like having the extra room in the FoST.

I had’t thought about the Abarth!

The damn shoe. This thing always gets brought up. I had a ‘98 M Roadster and it was a riot to drive, though a little squirrely at times with the rear dancing around under duress. But you know how the shoe is loved/hated, with no in-between? I hate it and wouldn’t take a free one. I do miss that S52 though.

NervesOfThrill > fourvalleys 11/20/2015 at 20:38

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A tuned BRZ putting out 300whp would be hella fun on the track and at Autox.

You’re like half the people I talk to going to a FoST or FiST. That’s why I’m considering it.

NervesOfThrill > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 11/20/2015 at 20:43

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Yeah, Miata is just not a consideration for me. Those guys always look like they are having the most fun at events though. But I just can’t get into them for whatever reason.

I may have to test drive an old 911 but I suspect it may going in the opposite direction of what I’m looking for. I miss drifting and rear wheel steering a torquey FR car. RR is not for the faint of heart to play around with....

NervesOfThrill > Old Red Wagon 11/20/2015 at 20:44

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Great suggestion but what it is the chassis/handling/setup of the FoST that has me even considering a FF car. I hate, hate, hate understeer.

NervesOfThrill > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 11/20/2015 at 20:48

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Yeah, I test drove a 240Z and 280Z and they were a little modest inside. Just as concerning was the lack of power steering, air conditioning (real damn AC) and safety equipment. I never thought I’d care about safety equipment, but as someone who does a track day a month for 6-7 months of the year,,,,,, it matters more now.

I just lack the requisite testicular fortitude to DD a Caterham man! Great track car, but living in Tampa without a roof or AC is basically a death sentence.

NervesOfThrill > Roadster Man 11/20/2015 at 20:49

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Great alternative I hadn’t even thought of.

NervesOfThrill > AM3R shamefully returns 11/20/2015 at 20:54

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Yeah the Z4M coupe in blue is one of my all time favorite cars. I’ll have one someday,,,,,, when I don’t have to drive it everyday. I had a 1st gen M Roadster (1998, S52) and it was a blast to drive, but a tight squeeze to live with on a daily basis. I’m a decent size guy (6’ 198lbs) and it felt like driving a condom when I test drove the 2008 Z4M.

NervesOfThrill > BarryDanger 11/20/2015 at 20:56

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I love this list. These are outside the box suggestions and i must say well played. Datsun 510, mmmmmmmm, love. F100 restomod has been an option. Still kicking around the idea of selling the Cayman and replacing it with a truck and a car for the same $.

NervesOfThrill > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 11/20/2015 at 21:00

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I’ve driven two, both decently modified, and could steer with the throttle pretty easily on back roads, which is what I was maybe sensing. I’ve never had the chance to drive a stock one. I’d defer to you until I can sneak a test drive to really know.

NervesOfThrill > whatisthatsound 11/20/2015 at 21:02

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Hahaha. Raw as it gets right! But I can’t DD one.

NervesOfThrill > Tareim - V8 powered 11/20/2015 at 21:03

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If it had 200hp, I would be there right now. Someday they will make a Miata or variant thereof that is both fun and FAST!

NervesOfThrill > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 11/20/2015 at 21:06

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Funny you mention it. The current Stingray is what started this. I was mostly content with the Cayman S until I rented a Stingray and Z06 while in Denver. The Z06 is the most fun I’ve ever had. The Stingray is the gem though. Made me realize just how much fun I was missing in the permanently flat and predictable Cayman.

NervesOfThrill > Opposite Locksmith 11/20/2015 at 21:09

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I have the same concern. I have this concern with Miatas and BRZ’s. I will always err on the side of having a little too much power over not enough.

Always.

NervesOfThrill > B_dol 11/20/2015 at 21:16

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If I am going down the rabbit hole of modding something I think there are other cars I’d prefer to make the investment in and you named #1, the FD RX7. I had the 1st and 2nd generation RX-7’s, with the 1990 convertible being one of my favorites of the nearly 20 cars I’ve had.

If they made Z4M’s 10% larger inside I’d be all over them. It is too tight of quarters for me. Sucks because an ‘08 Z4M in blue is one of my all time favorites.

NervesOfThrill > m2m, apex detective 11/20/2015 at 21:19

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I love them and that one in particular. A ‘98 Z4M in blue is one of my all time favorites. But I test drove a black one and it was just too tight of a fit for a DD. I may try again just because I love them so much, but I suspect it will be the same saran wrap like fit. Which breaks my heart.

vondon302 > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 21:20

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Thx she’s a joy! Its not a caymen s but bang for buck yee haw! Plus I married a Dearborn Mi girl so Ford it is. Must be some thing they put in the water. Blue one is hers. Btw also have fost. If i had to sell all my cars but one that’s what I’d keep bang for buck winner

Best pic I have unfortunately.

AM3R shamefully returns > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 21:48

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E92 M3 would be a great choice for a car you’d also be daily driving. Another suggestion that’ll save you some money, a 335is. Add an LSD and you have a perfect track car with gobs of torque and an insane power potential with just a few mods.

S2000 and some mods would also be awesome, but tough to daily. Maybe an STI? They'll hold value crazy well, you'll barely be losing money.

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 22:25

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Okay. Lets start with this.

WANT: light, fun and fast

HATE: AWD

That looks like reasonable objectives.

Then this:

I want my next car to be a little more raw, fun and vibrant .

Okay, we’re still on track.

Then what about a Datsun/Nissan Z car?

Pros-light, fun; Cons-price is silly nowadays

Okay, you have this and the price of a Z car is silly?

I have nothing to comment on the E46 M3 and the weird exotics.

How about a BRZ/FRS?

... a little too boy racer in looks maybe ...

Boy racer? Aren’t we already driving this?

Okay, then this:

Ford Focus ST: have not driven yet but if it is the smile factory it is rumored to be it is tempting; Pros-cheap and fun; Cons-it is the ugly duckling of the group.

It’s front wheel drive, unless you get the RS, which is all wheel drive, and you eliminated that at the outset. Didn’t you say this,

As a back road car, ... it lacks the ... tossability to be thrilling

about this:

I think you secretly love the Cayman, that ”... it is too composed, the limits are too high ...”.

Until you finalize the divorce, I can’t help you.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 22:30

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So many good suggestions here...

Factory Five Daytona Coupe?

Exocet Miata & rain gear?

Honestly, I think you need to get a Z4M coupe and a set of race buckets you can mount on the floor for extra room...

NervesOfThrill > AM3R shamefully returns 11/20/2015 at 23:42

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Do they make a non-AWD STi?

335 has always intrigued me. I ran with one at Palm Beach Int’l Raceway and the guy pulled away on the back straight every time. Was a strong ass car! All he had done was the factory offered Dinan Stage 1 upgrade: flash, exhaust. Bit of a sleeper.

NervesOfThrill > Dr_Watson 11/20/2015 at 23:44

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Watch the end when the Cayman rolls out.

AM3R shamefully returns > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 23:49

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Sorry,skipped over the non AWD part! 335 is a great car. The 335is is a limited production version with lots of nice upgrades like additional cooling, suspension, exhaust, and a dual clutch transmission if you don’t want manual. They also have over boost, which will increase the amount of boost during WOT, putting out about 370tq stock. These cars pull crazy hard! I actually just bought one.

Including an LSD, I have a parts list that adds up to about $3.5k that would have me handling sharper and flatter than an M3 competition package while putting down over 400 horsepower and torque AT THE WHEELS.

NervesOfThrill > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/20/2015 at 23:51

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That is actually not a bad idea. Not bad at all.

Roadster Man > NervesOfThrill 11/20/2015 at 23:54

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Glad I threw something out there you haven’t thought of! The 240z/260z/280z would still be at the top of my list as well.

NervesOfThrill > AM3R shamefully returns 11/21/2015 at 00:03

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Holy shit! I didn’t know it was that beastly.

AM3R shamefully returns > NervesOfThrill 11/21/2015 at 00:12

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They really are great buys! I also think the 240z would be awesome. The best time to buy one was yesterday. I’m kicking myself for not getting one!

Tareim - V8 powered > NervesOfThrill 11/21/2015 at 00:47

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Rumour has it that the Abarth version will be around 200bhp

m2m, apex detective > NervesOfThrill 11/21/2015 at 07:27

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Maybe that’s just the seats, though? As davesaddiction pointed out, there’s always the possibility of making changes.

If it helps you find your way into a Z4M, I’m all for fiddling with the stock material!

Chasaboo > NervesOfThrill 11/21/2015 at 12:49

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Interesting post. I’m cross shopping 911s and Caymans. Having a blast test driving cars.

BRZ is perfect. Doesn't need more power. If you don't understand that, then you're ignorant.

BarryDanger > NervesOfThrill 11/21/2015 at 17:07

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Thanks man, I used to have a 68 510 - it was an absolute blast before it was rear ended. I’m from the school of thought that 1 car cannot do it all, especially if you live somewhere with 4 real seasons. I have a doublecab Tundra for daily and winter duty and usually a project or toy (like the 510 or my current bavaria) for the summer, track and fun.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > NervesOfThrill 11/21/2015 at 17:26

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Yeah fun is guaranteed. Not just at events, since the limits are low even street driving. But yeah it’s not for everyone for sure.

RR sounds like the kind of fun that I want to explore, crazier the better. In that regard, MR could be fun too. Like an MR2SW20

NervesOfThrill > m2m, apex detective 11/21/2015 at 21:33

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I’ve decided to drive one again and am checking out seat options now. I may go with this and a cheapo old school truck.

m2m, apex detective > NervesOfThrill 11/22/2015 at 07:03

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If it turns out to be a viable choice for you, I’m all for it. Just make sure it feels right; as with shoes, if you think you can grow to love discomfort ... nah.

That said: if it fits, it sits!

And should you somehow find yourself in a place where you can compare the sound of that thing to a F80 M3/M4, you’ll be the merrier after it.

fourvalleys > NervesOfThrill 11/23/2015 at 08:52

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I could very well see myself in a BRZ again in a few years, once they’re cheap enough to supercharge and throw onto the track without worrying much. They’re fun cars, and even great in the track completely stock. I just want something I don’t feel like I need to throw around quite as much, and the Fiesta is a good candidate. But mostly it's a hatchback!

NervesOfThrill > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 11/23/2015 at 15:51

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I hear you. It’s a tough list.

To respond to each of the things you understandably see as contradictory:

-Z car price vs Cayman S. Price to me is relative, not absolute. So 2 years ago when Z cars were 6-8k for a clean car, was right to me. Today’s prices, not a good value for me.

-FRS/BRZ boy racer looks. I’ve never looked at a Cayman and though to myself “targeted at 20 somethings”. Some may, but to my eye the Cayman doesn’t plainly appeal to the tuner/mod crowd like the twins were meant to.

-Seeking tossability in a FoST vs Cayman. Everythign I read about FoST is about hwo fun it is to position the car, even at low speeds. Your statement here leads me to believe you may not have driven a Cayman S. I don’t think many would say a Cayman S is tossable on the streets. Being MR, without an LSD, with sizable rubber and all of the torque/power available above 6k rpms makes it, ummm, challenging to get moving around on streets.

-Secretly love the Cayman S. You sir are correct. I do love it in countless ways. It is well made, communicative as can be, the best looking car I’ve ever owned and one of my favorites on the road under $100k, an absolute joy on the track, pretty damn good on fast AutoX tracks (not so hot on tight, slow tracks due to tall track oriented gearing) and overall has been a fabulous car.

Had I never driven the Z06 and Stingray up Mt. Evans in Denver last month I’d probably have gone a few more months content. But after driving those it was clear how much fun I was leaving on the table. So the divorce paper may not have been filed, but we are officially separated.

Great post man!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > NervesOfThrill 11/24/2015 at 12:40

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It’s a Damn good answer to this question, I’m glad you’re considering it.