No Fault Insurance

"zeontestpilot" (zeontestpilot) 11/11/2015 at 09:02 • Filed to: Insurance

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So I was just on the phone with my car insurance company, getting them to explain just why they decided to raise my monthly payment by $40 (apparently I’m crash prone; one rear end crash and two acts of God weather accidents lists me as a liability), when they said something curious, “insurances with no fault charge you more for that service”. How true is that?

Edit: my apologies, it seems that I’m mixing up no fault with accident forgiveness, at least in my head. The way the agent said it made it sound like I dont have no fault insurance, which is why I got confused.

Update: I called again, and they kept throwing information at me. I have no idea why they mentioned the weather accidents at all, because they said it isn’t affecting my policy. It’s only the rear-end accident that raised the premium. And the person I hit did make a claim.

Also, one agent said there was an issue with my accident in Dec ‘13, and it was being currently reviewed. I asked ‘when did they start reviewing it’ since I haven’t called them at all about it. He then said it was actually closed and wasn’t currently being reviewed, and opened sometime in ‘14. Confused, I asked for clarification if it was being reviewed or not, which he changed the subject by asking “so what do you want out of this call?”. -_-.

Leon711 > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:09

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That’s sucks donkey balls, over here in the UK I’ve been hit a few times in the past 3 years, never my fault but my insurance has never gone up.

Party-vi > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:09

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I guess what they mean is, when shit hits you for no reason, we charge you more.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:10

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Very. Even more so if there is some clause for unlimited medical coverage in the event of an auto accident.

Source: Michigander. My friend who moved here from Ohio nearly had a heart attack when his insurance was 5 or 6 times higher than before. He used to pay I think 20-25 a month for a mazda 3 and got quoted at 140ish because he had a claim when a tree branch fell on it.

FazeRacer > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:15

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Every time you make a claim you risk them raising your insurance. The solution, never make claims for minor things.

davedave1111 > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:15

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“insurances with no fault charge you more for that service”

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

vondon302 > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:16

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All I know is that after I had a similar experience with my insurance agent ( much shouting and wtf’ing) my wife took over those calls and now my insurance stays somewhat the same year to year. Car insurance rates in michigan is a dark art and if you live even close to wayne county your going to get gouged.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Leon711 11/11/2015 at 09:16

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Yeah, that’s one of the thing’s I’ll never understand about our insurance system here in the US. My father had his insurance raised because an uninsured driver hit him.

zeontestpilot > Party-vi 11/11/2015 at 09:17

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Apparently. I can understand the accident, but the acts of God were out of my hand. I footed the bill for the fixes, they just payed for the tow. It was winter, black ice and loose snow on the road, you can’t really avoid that.

jariten1781 > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:18

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Yes, that’s how no fault works. It’s a terrible system and most states dropped it (there’s like 10 still left). Was supposed to lower costs across the board since it would lower litigation, but it didn’t stop the litigation and the govt meddled and capped required payouts by insurance companies which lead to creation of various government agencies to make up the difference from awards and caps.

It just sucks. Only solution is move or lobby.

Scott > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:19

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It's an insurance company... they raise your rates.. it's what they do. I've had insurance companies say they are raising my rates because my credit score is too high. and because I have too many credit cards. I told the customer service rep, so your really just making up a reason cause you decided to raise my rate... silence.

zeontestpilot > vondon302 11/11/2015 at 09:19

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I’m in Livingston county. A quarter of the county is dirt roads, which are atrocious during the winter. Basically, where I live.

zeontestpilot > Leon711 11/11/2015 at 09:22

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I think the acts of God should be ignored. It was black ice and loose snow. With the black ice accident, I purposely went into a ditch so I wouldn't hit the stopped at in front of at at 50 miles an hour.

zeontestpilot > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 11/11/2015 at 09:23

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So it does raise? Rats. The insurance told me the accident will stay with me for 3 years too...

zeontestpilot > davedave1111 11/11/2015 at 09:24

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All state has no fault insurance for the first accident. My insurance says they charge you extra to do that.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:27

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Yep. Welcome to auto insurance. But now’s a good time to shop around. Geico and Allstate were double what progressive charged me, and I even have a claim with progressive after dropping my old jetta on my head.

yamahog > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:27

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In Michigan, we have some of the highest insurance rates in the country (2012 numbers, but still similar: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorze… ).

We are required to have what is known as “no-fault insurance.” According to the state, this means:

“If you have an accident, this required insurance pays for injuries to people and for damages your car does to other people’s property and to properly parked cars. IT DOES NOT PAY FOR ANY OTHER DAMAGE TO CARS.”

Regardless of who is at fault, your insurance company pays out for the damage done to other property. Whereas in other states without no fault requirements, if you are not at fault, your insurance can sue to have the other party pay for damages. Thus insurance companies charge more here because they know we are required to have this coverage.

I'mJustOutbackXTing > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:30

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Wouldn’t an act of God be more like hail or a tree falling on your car? I feel like even if you hit black ice your insurance would argue that you were still piloting the car. Which makes me think... why don’t I get an insurance discount for having snow tires during winter.

zeontestpilot > jariten1781 11/11/2015 at 09:30

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Well, I ain't moving....and it does suck, big time.

davedave1111 > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:32

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No-fault as in you get one free crash? I’m not sure quite what you mean.

Leon711 > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:36

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It shows that insurance people a even more unfair in the US.

zeontestpilot > FazeRacer 11/11/2015 at 09:36

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I’m seeing that now. I like to pride myself in my honesty, I even told them of an accident a year after it happened ( I realized it was never reported) you know, do the right thing. So in doing the right thing, I pay for it.

Heck, when I Rear-ended the lady, she couldn’t even find a current insurance card.

So, trying to be a honest, good citizen means I get punished...neat...

zeontestpilot > I'mJustOutbackXTing 11/11/2015 at 09:41

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Probably, but I had two winter weather related accidents. I was driving, and it was my first Michigan winter in 5 years, since I was in Florida those 5 years. My neighbors told me it was one of the worst winters they have ever had. And I had to drive through it every day. Plus, who can predict black ice?

Leon711 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/11/2015 at 09:42

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To be fair, if you have don’t have what we call fully comprehensive insurance you might not be protected if hit by an uninsured driver. When I was a teen I never had fully comp. Until I got involved in a multi car crash. I was stationary in traffic and was hit from behind by two cars, this pushed me into the car in front. After all the stress of having to wait until it was confirmed I wasn’t at fault to get a loaner, having to deal with the other drivers insurers myself and having a huge phone bill because of it. I would never go back to that.

zeontestpilot > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 11/11/2015 at 09:42

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I’ll have to look into progressive then...

zeontestpilot > davedave1111 11/11/2015 at 09:43

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Sorry, No fault means your first accident is a freebie, I'm guessing. Especially if you don't have a history of accidents.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:46

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Your insurance policy has four main parts:

1. Liability - this covers others that you may hit for their damages if you are at fault in an accident. This is the section at the beginning that has limits like 50/100/50 etc. Since you own a home, it’s probably a good idea to have your liability around 100/300/100. That’s good protection if someone sues after an accident.

2. Comprehensive coverage - this covers your vehicle for things that aren’t crashes. If a tree falls on the vehicle, or an animal hits it, or it’s stolen, this covers the damage to your car.

3. Collision coverage - this covers the damage to your vehicle if you’re at fault in a crash.

4. Medical payments - the name, costs, and requirements change greatly from state to state. This is sometimes called no-fault. It covers the injuries of occupants of your vehicle in any accident, whether it’s your fault or not.

check your new policy line-by-line against your prior renewal and see where the costs have increased.

spanfucker retire bitch > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:49

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If it’s true it’s bullshit that they do. Geico gave me “one free accident” because I’ve gone so many years without being in one. Never raised my rates because of it.

davedave1111 > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:50

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Oh, I see. Normally a no-fault claim is one where you’re claiming for someone else (without insurance) hitting you, or a tree falling on your car, or some such.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > vondon302 11/11/2015 at 09:51

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or like me....IN wayne county...

Brickman > Leon711 11/11/2015 at 09:52

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Anything that needs insurance in the US is unfair. :(

zeontestpilot > yamahog 11/11/2015 at 09:53

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So does that mean I do have no- fault insurance then? And if I understand this right, insurance is paying for their car to get fixed.

I'm guessing they just raised my rate because I seem to hit things while driving?

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:57

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Think of it this way...would you call your homeowners if you had a toilet overflow and get your bathroom floor a little wet? No, you’d sop up the water and maybe replace a tile.

Same thing with auto. If the repairs aren't enough to want them to pay it, or if someone else wasn't injured, don't tell them.

smobgirl > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:57

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I’d check them all, really. The rates vary drastically for little reason. But you have a house too, right (home insurance)? Some don’t directly offer home insurance so there’s no chance for a multi-line discount.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 09:59

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Also, I hope you’re not confusing no-fault insurance with Allstate’s accident forgiveness.

One is a type of insurance where (in theroy) you do not need to sue the other “at fault” party to get paid; the other is a marketing scam.

DrScientist > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 10:00

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not to be a dick, but...

acts of god are more like a tree falling on your car while parked in your driveway, or a sinkhole opening up and swallowing your car while legally parked on the street.

that you were behind the wheel and the motor running, ice/snow/whatever puts you at least somewhat responsible.

at least that would be my understanding.

zeontestpilot > smobgirl 11/11/2015 at 10:03

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I have one of the ones listed, I just don’t want to say names and give them another reason to raise the price.

The house situation is funky, but it’s equivalent to renting to own. At least on paper. Essentially it’s mine though.

jariten1781 > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 10:04

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Sounds like you’re confusing ‘No-fault’ and ‘Accident Forgivness’. These are different things with technical and legal meanings in the insurance sphere. You should read up on what ‘No-fault’ is if you’re in a state that requires it (read generally and state specific because every locality has its own nits)...but cliffs-notes is that no-fault essentially assumes you’re in a bubble: your insurance covers you and your vehicle regardless of who’s at fault, same for the person who hits you (sometimes it’s property and injury, sometimes just injury).

So: while it’s titled ‘No-fault’ in essence it’s treated as if you were always at fault in a non-’No-fault’ location.

zeontestpilot > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 11/11/2015 at 10:09

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I think it’s when I call them up for the tow, which is when they mark my file. They have never cover any repair costs, out of the 3 at faults they listed, only one thing was ever repaired, the bracket the radiator sat on for the pt. both my cars still have front bumper damage.

zeontestpilot > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection 11/11/2015 at 10:13

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So the liability part probably increases if they think I'm accident prone, right?

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 10:13

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You crashed on black ice and snow?

That’s your fault. Not acts of God

gin-san - shitpost specialist > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 10:17

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If insurance is anything like it is in Canada, I’d imagine it varies heavily from state-to-state since the vehicle registrations are also done on a state-by-state basis.

I can explain based on my own provincial rules (Ontario): no-fault is a bit of a misnomer. All it really means in our province is that regardless of who is at-fault in an accident you always go through your own insurance company. Unfortunately, it does not mean accidents are not your fault.

Acts of God need to be clarified further: single-vehicle accidents are always going to be the fault of the driver. If you hit black ice or too much snow, slide off the road and wreck your car in a ditch, it’s going to be at-fault. It appears in this respect, wherever you live has similar rules.

When you say one rear-end crash, I’d imagine someone rear-ended you. If you hit someone else from behind, once again, you’re 100% at-fault. You’re correct in that if someone else hits you from behind, you’re not at-fault and this will have no impact on your driving record and prices.

Now, as far as no-fault insurance being more expensive, without really knowing what your state rules are I can't be 100% confident in my answer, but I have to call bullshit on it. As I said earlier, in my province, no-fault insurance is simply what insurance is - there isn't any other option.

zeontestpilot > jariten1781 11/11/2015 at 10:18

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I think I am mixing the two, do I wonder, why did the agent act like I didn't have it?

zeontestpilot > jariten1781 11/11/2015 at 10:21

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I think I am mixing the two, do I wonder, why did the agent act like I didn't have it?

jariten1781 > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 10:25

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I bet you all were cross-talking.

zeontestpilot > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 11/11/2015 at 10:29

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I believe I am, I just amended the post.

Urambo Tauro > DrScientist 11/11/2015 at 10:35

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That’s how I understood it, too.

A flood would definitely be an act of God, but I don’t think the Man Upstairs should be liable for someone hydroplaning in the rain.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 11:03

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Liability, Collision, and medical payments increase if you’ve crashed the car.

Comprehensive increases if you’ve had claims otherwise.

I forgot to mention uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage. That increases based on general demographic or crash data.

All of those can increase if your insurance company runs your credit once a year - a lot of companies do that. You’ll get an FCRA notice if they do and they raise your rates due to your credit score.

SteveLehto > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 11:11

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Is that Livingston Cty, MI? Whereabouts?

Insurance comapanies don’t really care whose fault anything is, even with no fault. If you file claims, you cost them money. The more you cost them, they more they charge you. They simply base their treatment of you on how you have treated them (i.e., $$$).

FazeRacer > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 11:11

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That’s not an act of God. You were driving too fast for the conditions.

zeontestpilot > SteveLehto 11/11/2015 at 11:48

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Howell, Mi, Livingston county. Can you define a claim then? If it’s basically how much the insurance pays for something, right? If so, I’ve only asked for tows. I’m guessing the repairs to the other car were high? I figured it was just a bumper swap...

zeontestpilot > FazeRacer 11/11/2015 at 12:04

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Wasn’t any snow on the road, many people were going 70+ I was playing it safe at 60 mph. I knew road conditions were bad, so I kept about 20 car lengths in front on me. The cars in front on me stopped suddenly, I applied the brakes and discovered I hit a patch of black ice. A long patch of black ice. My car wasn’t slowing down, so I had to make a split second decision; crash into the other car or turn the wheel hoping the tires grab pavement and swerve out of the way.

I turned the wheel and my tires did grab the pavement. The car turned to the right, off into a 4’ ditch. Since I still I had momentum, the car did a complete 360 before finally coming to a rest.

Not a act of god, but weather conditions weren't favorable.

SteveLehto > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 12:51

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Very familiar with Howell.

Any time they spent money on you, the money was going in the wrong direction.

Insurance is weird (and that’s putting nicely). Some will raise your rates or cancel you altogether if you even ask them about flood coverage. In that, you call and they say you aren’t covered. Then they cancel you anyway. I kid you not.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 12:52

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Well the insurance on my C30 just went up like $35 a month, I didn’t change anything. Ive never even called them before. No accidents or missed payments.

Its BS

zeontestpilot > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 11/11/2015 at 12:58

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Well, money is extremely tight right now for us, so less money means more hardships. Being an adult is frustrating...

zeontestpilot > SteveLehto 11/11/2015 at 13:20

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And apparently they don’t pre-check the price on whatever they spend on you. While talking to them, I found out the spend $182 on the last towing bill. Wait, not a tow, they pulled me out of a ditch, and I drove home myself. I told him that didn’t sound right, he didn’t seem to care, called it ‘trivial’.

SteveLehto > zeontestpilot 11/11/2015 at 13:29

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What is amazing is how often I hear people say they took care of things themself rather than claiming it because, “I don’t want my rates to go up.”

So, customers end up eating what the company ought to pay, to keep the rates down which cover the thing they just decided not to claim.

Eventually, we will all have policies that will cover us once for something catastrophic. The company will cancel us as a result and probably refuse to pay anyway.

zeontestpilot > SteveLehto 11/11/2015 at 13:57

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I’m honestly considering not reporting small things anymore as well. At least not weather related incidents where I’m on my own.

It’s not that I want to be secretive about it, but if the rate goes up I’ll be in debt. Eh....I won’t go into details, but we keep getting more and more costs and debts at the same time, and it adds up quickly. -_-

Leon711 > Brickman 11/11/2015 at 16:52

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You are welcome to move here. Free health care and my company health care plan costs me £7 a month which covers dental, opticians, general surgery up to a point. I could pay more but if I can’t afford it I can just get in done on the NHS.