The savior of F1 is more mountain racing. A rant.

"RallyDork" (pelijep)
11/05/2015 at 15:48 • Filed to: None

Seems like the Mexican Grand Prix was a hit. I watched it and it was great! Probably one of the best Grand Prix i’ve seen for a long time. But why?

The race weekend was Rosberg’s and the only way that would’ve changed was if Hamilton would’ve stayed out and then been able to defend against fresher tires at the end. Pretty typical. Nothing crazy, wild, or stupendously brilliant going on there.

The podium in the middle of the baseball diamond was a stroke of genius. Comparisons to gladiators and warriors of yore is all that the PR people in Bernie’s office could’ve hoped for. The chanting crowds, waving flags, fans packing the grandstands, the roar of thousands of Mexicans supporting their driver even if he only finished 8th were all any organizer could’ve asked for. Especially after the disappointing race in Austin.

(There’s a no-brainer... Oh you want to have popular races? How about have them in countries where people care. And a 3-day weekend started below $100.00 for general admission? hmm.)

The crowd made the race something special - there’s no denying that but something else did too.

The race was exciting. But it wasn’t exciting because of a pass-a-thon that everyone would have you believe is the key to returning F1 to its glory days. It was exciting because the cars were being driven.

Now obviously the cars are always driven and i’m not griping about the absurd amount of buttons and fiddly bits they can play with on the steering wheel. At 7,000 ft the cars had considerably less downforce and still a considerable amount of horsepower. It was exciting just to watch them drive .

There was a moment when a Toro Rosso (Verstappen?) went through a turn (wonderfully vague i know) with a beautiful amount of oversteer, not a smidge that only the keen eyes of a well trained presenter could notice, but a nice controlled slide where everyone in the room goes “whooooaaaa” - and it wasn’t him screwing up either! It was entirely purposeful. He was driving the car to go fast.

People seem to forget that F1 has never been a NASCAR style passing fest.

When you watch vintage grand prix you aren’t watching drivers battle with one another lap after lap throughout a race. You’re watching them build up to it, put in amazing lap after amazing lap and then at the right moment execute a perfectly timed maneuver around their competitor.

The famous Villeneuve and Arnoux battle was not common place, thats why it’s special. Hakkinen’s pass on Schumacher at Spa was a multiple lap thing not just a “oh looks like a good time to do this I guess”. The comings together of Prost and Senna weren’t a product of wheel to wheel racing but rather two very intelligent but egotistical racing drivers who were tired of each other’s BS coming to a head. (Different rant).

Those races weren’t exciting because they were wheel to wheel, they were exciting because you could physically see the cars sliding, you can see the drivers manipulating the steering wheel, oversteering through turns and controlling the car with the gas. The Mexican Grand Prix was exciting not because of DRS, or KERS, or any other trick to get one car around the other.

It was exciting because it was old school. They couldn’t just lay down a rail, they had to handle their cars and manage them. Low and behold, mystery to all, it also happens to look really freakin cool.

And how much fun was it to watch Vettel lose his cool? I loved it and I was rooting for him. Drive like mad man, lose it, drive like mad man, lose it, drive like mad man, crash. It’s endearing, it’s passionate. That’s F1.

I don’t think Formula 1 needs a whole lot of fixing. It seems to me that if we want to be entertained by drivers driving in F1 then we can do one of two things:

A: Relocate every race to above 5,000 ft.

Admit it, the views would be sweet.

B: Smaller wings.

(or i guess there’s always IndyCar...)

DISCUSSION (19)

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > RallyDork
11/05/2015 at 16:08

Sorry but a race without passing isn’t a race. It’s a time trial. That’s why the American grand prix was exciting. Cause of passing.

AntiSpeed > RallyDork
11/05/2015 at 16:14

That’s also what made the old Hockenheimring so special- to go fast you needed a wicked low downforce setup so when they would go through the stadium section they were slipping and sliding.

IMO another problem is that we simply know everything by now. The automobile has been in development for well over 100 years. The days of ground-breaking discoveries like “hey, let’s try putting the engine in the back!” are well behind. Now all the performance is gained in the minutiae. The things that it takes an engineering degree to appreciate.

The upshot to that is we can manipulate them to promote exciting racing. Draconian aero regulations and tires designed to have high optimum slip angles will provide big slides and safer speeds. The thing keeping that from happening is that rule makers don’t have the courage, and even if they did fans would yell “contrived!,” no matter how exciting the racing gets.

Bullitt Ride > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
11/05/2015 at 16:16

Go tell a WRC driver that what they are doing isn’t racing and get back to us...

tromoly > RallyDork
11/05/2015 at 16:16

At 7,000 ft the cars had no downforce and about 900hp.

You’ve overestimated the engine power by about 33% without KERS / 16% with KERS, the engines themselves only produce 600hp and the hybrid system gives an additional 160hp, giving a maximum of 760hp for a few seconds.

As for aero, um, yes they had a lot of downforce. The altitude gave a 23% reduction in static air pressure, but that’s partially counter-acted by using more aggressive wings, so while there may have been lower downforce levels it’s on the order of a couple hundred pounds, not several thousand as your post suggests.

TL;DR: The cars had a lot more grip and a lot less power than you’re stating.

RallyDork > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
11/05/2015 at 16:17

For sure. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be passing. The great moments are generally the passes.

It was refreshing to watch a race where it was exciting to just watch the cars slide around. The focus on powertrains and manipulating the air away from the cars and lord knows what other things they’ve thought up to make it more exciting seems kind of like the long way around.

I think there should be less downforce. Plain and simple. Not only would it help with the dirty air for passing and possibly reduce some cost but it was fun to watch them struggle to drive the cars.

StingrayJake > RallyDork
11/05/2015 at 16:18

Wait wait wait... wait. I’ve got it.

F1. ON. ICE.

RallyDork > StingrayJake
11/05/2015 at 16:20

Ice mountains.

StingrayJake > RallyDork
11/05/2015 at 16:25

Seriously though, you make some valid points. Now does reducing downforce help the competitive situation currently facing F1? Not really.

Merc has the most power and will continue to have the most power until PU development regulations change. At the moment, aero is the almost-equalizer that has kept Ferrari and Red Bull within shouting distance (which is not very close at all).

But would it make the cars hella more difficult to drive, thus putting a bit more emphasis on driver skill? Probably. But what I think people fail to realize is that the best drivers (minus Alonso) are already at the front of the pack.

RallyDork > tromoly
11/05/2015 at 16:27

Good call. No downforce was definitely an overstatement and 900hp was high as well.

Though I thought since the beginning of last year they had made some bigger power gains. Especially the Mercs.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > RallyDork
11/05/2015 at 16:40

The thing about F1 is that not every race will be classic - just like how in any other sport, you’ll end up with boring rounds or truly excellent, once-in-a-while spectacles that will be looked upon fondly in the future. Like you said, the Arnoux/Villeneuve battle from Dijon can’t happen every race - it’s just not possible.

I’m slowly learning that no matter what F1 does, it will always create a problem for some subset of fans. I’m just going to continue watching races and let it all play out. If it gets really boring, I’ll just watch some other racing. MotoGP has been fantastic this year; WRC has just started to have some more interesting results, although it’s sadly after Ogier has already won the championship. There’s lots of great racing out there, and F1 is just the pinnacle of one category. I had a heck of a lot of fun watching (what I could stay up to watch) of the latest WEC round in Shanghai.

RallyDork > StingrayJake
11/05/2015 at 16:48

I don’t think that reducing the downforce is going to fix any of the major issues in f1, (way too many) or necessarily bring Ferrari and Red Bull up to par with Mercedes. You’re right, they’d probably fall back further, especially Red Bull. Aerodynamics were a big part of helping the smaller teams fight manufacturers in the first place.

It was refreshing to watch the cars be driven in a style where someone who doesn’t watch F1 could look at it and be impressed. The cars were twitching, there was visible counter steer, it was exciting to just watch. I’d rather watch a train of slippery fast cars be driven with one or two good passes at the limit than a whole bunch of push to pass where the cars are on rails. (yup, there’s that argument.)

I agree. Most of the best drivers are at the front. I kind of hate to say but I also think maybe it’s time for the older generation of drivers to move over. Let guys like Grosjean and Hulkenberg get in the top seats before it’s only 15 yr old wonder children everywhere.

RallyDork > gin-san - shitpost specialist
11/05/2015 at 16:52

totally agree. The WEC is already there and hopefully the WRC will pick up a little in the next couple years. I think it will.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > RallyDork
11/05/2015 at 16:58

Damn, for a moment there I thought you were pitching for a Bathurst GP.

tromoly > RallyDork
11/05/2015 at 17:25

Not by much, the torque curve drops because the amount of fuel per revolution starts to drop as RPMS get higher and the fuel flow per second stays the same above 10.5k, so the amount of power can go a bit higher but not by much.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > Bullitt Ride
11/05/2015 at 17:30

It’s still a time trial

StingrayJake > RallyDork
11/05/2015 at 17:49

Lack of grip certainly made Austin exciting, and I think it was pretty clear that Merc wasn’t as dominant on the inters.

bryan40oop > RallyDork
11/06/2015 at 10:09

“At 7,000 ft the cars had no downforce and about 900hp. “

No, no.

Just no.

Downforce didn’t decrease due to the altitude change. And they had less HP thanks to limiting output due to cooling concerns with the altitude.

RallyDork > bryan40oop
11/06/2015 at 13:48

Yup it’s been addressed I should have said “considerably less” downforce.

I’m aware the HP figure is on the very high end even at sea level as well.

bryan40oop > RallyDork
11/06/2015 at 14:00

It’s not so much the altitude but the inability to dissipate heat, which teams ran less power to de-stress the engine. The lack of downforce was purely due to the track layout, nothing with the altitude. Not enough high speed turns to necessitate more downforce and a long straight, so teams ran a similar downforce package as monza.