Winter Tires or Really Good All Seasons?

"SlickMcRick" (slickmcrick) 10/26/2015 at 00:02 • Filed to: None

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I know some areas in the Northern Hemisphere get pounded with snow as soon as winter hits. The DMV (DC, MD and VA) are not so much. We will have ridiculously cold days without a single snowflake for weeks on end. A “White Christmas” has remained a dream since it seems we tend to get a bulk of our snowfall on the backend of winter, namely February.

So my question is should I get a dedicated set of winter’s if we don’t necessarily get tons of snowfall? The other key issue is I have nowhere to store those tires when I take them off and swap them for summer ones.

Snow GIFs for your time

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 00:12

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Im in Florida so take what I say with a grain of salt but I was always under the impression that nothing beats an actual set of snow tires, even the best all seasons are still worse than a decent set of snow. If you have the money and want a lot of road control buy the snow tires, you never know when you might need to go out on a heavier than expected snow day

JGrabowMSt > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 00:17

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Winter tires are made to perform better in colder weather, not just on snow (they do perform extremely well in snow by design though).

A set of snow tires is cheaper than several things:

1) Having to do body work on your car

2) Having to replace your car

3) Having one or more code brown moments

4) Having to deal with anything related to thinking you could get away without snow tires

SlickMcRick > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 10/26/2015 at 00:17

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I understand that logic but I’ve done swell on less than stellar all seasons in my 7 years of driving thus far. My big issue still is having nowhere to store the other tires....maybe I’ll see if I anyone in the family with a house has any storage space.

Eggplant > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 10/26/2015 at 00:21

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This this this.

If you’ve got a dedicated set of summer tires, there’s no reason not to have a dedicated set of winters. The snow will fly eventually, right? Just get them, and try to figure out a storage solution for whichever tires aren’t on the car.

Urambo Tauro > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 00:22

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If you don’t have room, you don’t have room.

You’ll be missing out on the advantage that winter tires have to offer, but all-seasons will get you by. It’s a compromise, but an acceptable one.

SlickMcRick > JGrabowMSt 10/26/2015 at 00:22

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Just checked prices on tires...not as bad as I was expecting. Can get a set of 4 for under $600. Guess it’d be worth it’s weight just to avoid as many code brown moments as possible. Are SUVs better or worse in the snow than economy cars? This’ll be my first winter sitting up high.

Opposite Locksmith > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 00:22

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I’ve had a white Christmas once in the past ten years in Plano Texas, by Dallas

Orange Courier > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 00:26

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I grew up in California and had only seen all season tires until I moved to Canada for school. RWD pickup on an icy bridge with all seasons meant I spun all the way around and nearly soiled myself. That day I bought snow tires. The shop owner looked at my tires and said, “you’ll be fine with just rear tires and sand bags in the back.” That’s what I did and didn’t have any trouble after that. Fast forward 15 years and I’m living in Michigan, I’ve only used all seasons (cars: Volvo 240 wagon & sedan, Subaru Forrester, Chrysler Sebring). The only car that has given me concern is the Sebring, but it’s a terrible car no matter the tires. The Volvo sedan, on the other hand, was fantastic! It was so easy to control if it started slipping.

Also, I am a very defensive driver in the winter. I drive as though I’m on the motorcycle and everyone is out to kill me.

—BTW how to I get permission to post to Oppo?

wafflesnfalafel > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 00:30

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I’ve had a set a Blizzaks (no stud) that were not great, and a set of Conti DWS all seasons that were quite good in the snow, (though crappy for general use because 3 of the four the shop couldn’t get to balance...) I wouldn’t ever buy another set of snow tires w/o studs.

PotbellyJoe and 42 others > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 00:49

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I’m in NJ, but drive to MI with a high frequency. If it weren’t for driving to MI, I wouldn’t get them and we get more snow than you.

Here’s the test. When it snows, do you have to go out? Not want but need. Can you work from home? Will your work even be open?

If you don’t have the need to be out, you’re better off saving the cash and staying in.

In the DMV, a set of Conti DSW, you’ll be more than dandy.

PotbellyJoe and 42 others > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 00:51

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Yes. They’re both better in the snow than each other.

It’s traction dependent. More mass = longer distances to stop, more ground clearance means less likely to get buried. Everything else depends on tires and traction.

TheOnelectronic > JGrabowMSt 10/26/2015 at 01:00

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That has never been my experience. Snow tires have always been a massive compromise on dry pavement, even in cold weather.

SlickMcRick > PotbellyJoe and 42 others 10/26/2015 at 01:04

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That’s the other thing. I will call out in a heartbeat if I feel it’s a risk driving out there. I have a 20+ mile commute just one direction. If the highways aren’t at least partially clear I’m not chancing it.

krhodes1 > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 01:09

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I have a Range Rover HSE and a RWD BMW 328i wagon. Both are on snow tires in the winter. Until the snow gets too deep, there is simply no comparison, the BMW is better in every way but a drag race. It stops better, it turns better, and you can feel what the limit of traction is better. On the other hand, the Range Rover is a sacrificial vehicle - I don’t care how much salt gets on it, nor do I care if some idiot slides into me (bring it on, I need the money!).

In my experience, SUVs without snow tires are absolutely deadly, because they GO in the snow just fine. But they don’t STOP in the snow at all, nor do they turn particularly well. All that extra mass in motion with limited traction just means instant ABS action and sail on into tomorrow.

When I was in college living in the dorms, I used to put my off-season wheels/tires under my bed. They really don’t take up that much space. Even huge modern wheels and tires are only need about two square feet and four feet high to be stacked in a corner. Or two stacks in front of the couch, slap a piece of tempered glass on and you have a car guy coffee table!

TheOnelectronic > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 01:11

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Snow tires will do better in actual snow, although all-seasons are reasonably competent if you don’t out-drive them.

In just cold, dry conditions, Ultra-High Performance All Season tires will knock the pants off of any snow or winter tires I’ve used, however. If you rarely find yourself driving in snow, but want to be safe if you do, Conti DWS are an AS tire that still does fairly well in the snow.

On the other side, The Dunlop 4d tires (used to be called 3d) are snow tires that are very well-regarded in terms of dry performance. I’ve even heard tales of people using them for auto-crossing in the winter.

M54B30 > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 02:38

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We had some rough winters when I lived in Ohio and got by perfectly fine with all-seasons on my RWD BMW.

This is my 3rd winter in South Dakota and my first one with winter tires on my BMW. We haven’t had snow yet, but here’s to hoping she won’t be a garage queen again this winter

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 03:04

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I will always suggest a second set of winter tires (on their own set of rims in my opinion). Winter tires are not just for snow, but for ice and just basically cold weather. Having them on their own set of rims also means that you don't have to go pay someone to swap them out for you after the season. Just jack up the car and swap wheel with wheel.

facw > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 03:33

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In the DC area, you really don’t need to bother. That might leave you a few days where you can’t drive or need to delay going out, but everything will be shut down in those conditions anyway.

Winter tires are great, but at some point they really aren’t necessary, just accept the decreased capability and deal with it.

shop-teacher > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 07:12

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I love love love my snow tires, but if I were in your situation I’d just get a really good set of all seasons and stay home on the few really nasty days you get.

atrombs > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 07:21

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I’ve been driving in Arlington VA for 8 years now and have gotten by just fine with front wheel drive and all weathers. I’m sure snow tires would give you an advantage, but in my experience it’s not a necessity.

Viggen9er3 > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 10/26/2015 at 08:07

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Snow tires will save you inches in stopping/skidding, if you use them properly. That’s enough to save your life or someone else.

Viggen9er3 > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 08:09

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Usually there is room high up on a wall in the garage. Buy a rack and a ladder and its easy. Now hopefully you have that family member.

Viggen9er3 > TheOnelectronic 10/26/2015 at 08:17

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Compromise in what way? Were not racing on snow tires in the cold... Its minimal enough that its a moot point.

Viggen9er3 > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 08:21

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4x4 or AWD is better for acceleration, especially from a stop in the snow. It does not help in anyway with regards to breaking.

Sitting higher off the ground does help avoid obstacles in the snow and reduce the plow effect.

Keewee > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 10/26/2015 at 08:26

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Michelin seems to be making good progress with all-season tires though, the new CrossClimate tire is getting good reviews and should supposedly be better on wet tarmac than both standard summer tires and winter tires. I have no experience with them myself, though strongly considering them for this winter: http://www.michelin.com/eng/media-room…

(Disclaimer: I have no idea whether or when these are available in the US)

Aaron M - MasoFiST > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 08:38

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There are snow-biased all-seasons which will be perfectly safe in snow (assuming a FWD or AWD car at least) provided you give them a bit more stopping distance than real snows. Look at Tire Rack’s snow ratings on the all-season tires they have...the Continental ExtremeContact DWS is fairly capable in snow, while still being a solid (if a little loud and squishy) performance all-season tire.

BigBlock440 > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 08:52

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As long as they’re not bald, all-seasons are fine. You just have to adjust your driving and realize that you’re not on dry pavement.

Nobody’s disputing that winter tires are better, but they’re far from a necessity. Especially when the road’s plowed, salted, and completely cleared just a few hours after the snow stops.

*source: 10-years in the north east with FWD all-seasons

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 09:49

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Last November we bought a set of Falken all seasons for the cobalt and havnt had any issues with all the snow and polar vortexes Chicago got last winter. Now that we have the Explorer I plan on just buying a set of All-Terrain tires and calling it a day. Basically as long as you know what you’re doing and don’t drive too fast for conditions you’ll be fine with a good set of all seasons. After all winter tires won’t save you from everyone else on the road

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > JGrabowMSt 10/26/2015 at 09:49

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Unless you’re the only car on the road winters won’t save you from those 4 bullet points

DrScientist > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 10:40

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what type of car do you have?

my experience with tires in cold/snow:

- blizzak lm25: excellent in cold, excellent in cold (<40) wet, excellent in snow fresh and packed, never drove on ice

- michelin x-ice 3: excellent in cold, excellent in cold wet, excellent in snow deep fresh and packed, excellent on ice

- pirelli sottozero ser 2: excellent in cold, excellent in cold wet, fair in wet snow, fair on ice

- michellin pilot sport 2: fair in cold, poor in cold wet, dangerous in wet snow, new underpants on ice

do keep in mind that cold and snow/ice are different things. if its just cold. even down to ~0 deg. an all season will do just fine. add in ice or snow, and you’ll quickly see the benefits a snow/ice tire will provide. tire rack has some good comparison videos on pack snow and an ice rink.

BREADwagon > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 11:55

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Nokian WRG3 are apparently the best all season tire in terms of its snow ability. The price reflects that, but if you can only have one set of tires for daily driving in areas that get snow, it’s the one to get. They’re hard to come by, but they consistently get insanely positive reviews.

suba-wagen > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 12:42

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Personally living in Iowa I swear by snow tires. I have used Firestone Winterforces for the past 2 years and will make it a third this year. I also just picked up a set of Blizzaks for one of my other cars. If I didn’t drive so much I wouldn’t bother but I deliver pizza so it helps especially when plows aren’t the most reliable.

TheOnelectronic > Viggen9er3 10/26/2015 at 16:17

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I had Blizzaks on my car once that would slip so much I routinely turned off traction control just so I could get anywhere. If it rained they were nightmarish.

Not to mention that, by their nature, snow tires are often horribly soft and wallowy.

JGrabowMSt > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 10/26/2015 at 18:15

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This is 100% true, but a set of snow tires can easily make or break a situation.

I managed for several years on all seasons, but I began having worse and worse luck with them and moved to dedicated winter tires. The HEMIWagon isnt light, particularly nimble, or the best car to DD all year round, but having my winter set of tires has certainly left me more confident.

If you go around driving like a jackass, it doesnt matter what the setup is..

lunr > Orange Courier 10/26/2015 at 21:30

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As much as I’d love snow tires on my Subaru, cost is a factor this year. However, I’ve noticed the more populated counties (Detroit Metro, Grand Rapids Metro) tend to not require snow tires as much as the more rural areas because a) the roads are already plowed by the time you need to commute or b) the commute is going so slow (<25mph) you’re not really in the need of the traction-at-speed that snow tires provide.

Like Orange Courier, I’ve also driven a Subaru and a Sebring (agree, such an awful drive) on all-seasons (Yokohama and BFGs, respectively) and while they’re not road-gripping, snow-rallying vehicles, as long as you don’t over-drive the tires, you can stay on the road with the rest of them.

philsphan09 > SlickMcRick 10/26/2015 at 23:06

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Some dealerships let you store your out of season tires / rims there. I have a second set of rims / tires my Audi dealership stores for free. $50 to rotate isn't cheap but when you annualized with storage its so worth it.

bryan40oop > SlickMcRick 10/27/2015 at 03:24

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Winter tires. All season tires suck for spirited driving just as much.