"BREADwagon" (BREADwagon)
10/23/2015 at 11:26 • Filed to: None
1
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"BREADwagon" (BREADwagon)
10/23/2015 at 11:26 • Filed to: None | 1
| 53 |
In my journey to find a replacement for my ‘13 Focus ST, I’ve come to the realization that a 911 isn’t that unattainable. It would of course have to be a ‘low tier’ 911 ala 996 or 997.1 C2 maybe C2S.
I’d have to finance a portion, which pretty much precludes buying privately...which means a 3.2 or a 964 are out of the question. There are quite a few good looking 996/997.1 (without closer inspection) cars at dealerships that would be within budget. But this raises the question:
Even after a generally positive PPI, would you buy a used 911 from a dealership (either from a Porsche dealership or an indie dealer)?
Edit: and why?
TheHondaBro
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 11:31 |
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I wouldn’t.
SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 11:36 |
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Of course. What are your doubts, given a good PPI?
Svend
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 11:36 |
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Buy a Porsche from a dealer?
From a car dealer, yes. From a drug dealer, no. :)
I’d buy it from a non Porsche car dealership (independent ones I’d have to judge from going to them and looking around) rather than a Porsche or prestige car dealership but have it looked at. Generally with high end cars, the non Porsche dealership has them for a couple of thousand less than the Porsche dealership as they might of took the car as part exchange and simply want the car off the forecourt as soon as possible to get one of their own marques into the space.
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BREADwagon
> TheHondaBro
10/23/2015 at 11:37 |
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BREADwagon
> SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
10/23/2015 at 11:41 |
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Just the overwhelmingly negative views I see on rennlist about this very question. I’ve yet to see any reasoning behind it.
My thoughts are, if it has a generally favorable PPI, even if it was somewhat molested and doesn’t have any service records, I’d still immediately get a reputable shop to do an IMS/clutch replacement and then do the general maintenance myself.
Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 11:42 |
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I don’t see any problem with it, and should save you some time with transferring the title. Just don’t let them tack on a dealer service plan. Shop around for warranties if you plan on getting one.
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BREADwagon
> Svend
10/23/2015 at 11:43 |
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LOL, fixed. Good point about indie vs. a porsche dealership.
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BREADwagon
> Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed
10/23/2015 at 11:47 |
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I generally dislike paid for warranties, and have no issue telling a dealer I don’t want it...but I’d do some serious research into one that covers the motor and clutch.
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Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 11:53 |
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Good idea if you can get a good price. People make much ado about the IMS bearing in the 996, but the failure rate is only around 5% at 80k miles in the affected motors. Even at their worst, the 911 is a spectacularly well-engineered car.
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BREADwagon
> Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed
10/23/2015 at 12:00 |
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I’m thinking that a good plan would be to set aside $2k-$3k for immediately going to a reputable shop for an IMS and clutch replacement.
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Svend
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 12:05 |
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Damn you. I went to Autotrader to look at Porsche prices and found a Bowler EXR S 5.0 for GBP£139.950.
Now I can’t stop drooling.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
2015
500 miles
Automatic
5.0L
Petrol
WHITE, John Holland Winner of Dealer's Dealer of the Year at the National Car Dealer Awards 2014/15 is delighted to offer for sale this outstanding Bowler EXR S. Presented in White with contrasting Charcoal Leather Upholstery and Carbon Fibre Inlays. This is the first of 3 finished cars by Bowler Motorsport and has a massive specification which is too huge to list but comprises 5.0L V8 Supercharged Land Rover Engine with Bowler engine re-map (550bhp/625Nm), Bespoke Bilstein Dampers with Eibach progressive springs, 22" Alloy Wheels with 305/35 R22 Cooper tyres, Hydroformed Composite Chassis with Integrated FIA Approved Roll Cage, Front and rear heated screens, 2 seats – racing specification with 3 point seat belts, Polycarbonate windows with sliding hatch, Pioneer DEH-8400BT CD tuner with bluetooth, IPod/IPhone control, Rally dash with competition detailing, Carbon door cards. John Holland was established for over 40 years supplying a premium level of service in the sale of sports, prestige and collectors cars. We have a team of experienced buyers who hand pick our cars from all parts of the uk so you can buy with confidence all vehicles are HPI Clear and prepared to the highest standard, full dealer facilities available call the sales team for further information., £139,950
CONFOUND YOU SIR!
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Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 12:12 |
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This is the website I came across when I was looking to do the same thing as you (replace my ST with a 911).
http://www.oregonpca.org/resources/ims-… /
Now I’m looking into a 350z or a C5 as a second car and just keep the ST. 911’s ain’t cheap.
Tom McParland
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 12:37 |
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CarMax bro....I don’t know where your budget is, but all CPO 911s are crazy expensive, but I’ve run the math for a few clients and two of my customers got a non CPO 911 from CarMax for about 8-10k cheaper than the CPO cars from Porsche dealers. They paid about 5k for the MaxCare warranty, got longer coverage and had more money in their pocket.
#DeMuro’d
MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 12:45 |
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Nope! Because you can buy better cars for less money!
E92M3
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 12:50 |
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I’d rather buy from an individual. I want to know the history, and get a feel for the type of person who owned it before me. You can get your own financing thru your bank or a credit union. It’s not that hard.
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BREADwagon
> Tom McParland
10/23/2015 at 12:56 |
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I didn’t even think of this, even after reading all of DeMuro’s posts about the RangeRover. The closest one is about 70 miles from me (NYC), but I’ll keep my eyes peeled!
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Tom McParland
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 12:57 |
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Where are you located?
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BREADwagon
> MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
10/23/2015 at 12:57 |
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Please show all work! lol Need some examples!
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MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 13:01 |
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What’s your budget, region, and requirements.
(last time someone pulled that on me they responded with “OH DAMN!” because they were pleased with results)
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BREADwagon
> E92M3
10/23/2015 at 13:02 |
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Most of the personal loans I’ve looked into won’t finance anything older than 5 years older than the current year (so we’re looking at a 2011), and have rates above 2%. I figure I can get under that at a dealership.
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BREADwagon
> Tom McParland
10/23/2015 at 13:03 |
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NYC
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Tom McParland
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 13:04 |
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Derp...I thought you meant that the CarMax was 70 miles from you near NYC.
Arrivederci
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 13:07 |
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I totally would and almost did. Found a lovely 997.1 C2 cabrio for a great price, one owner, fully maintained at the local Porsche dealer. Just couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger, worried about future issues. Also wanted a C2S coupe more than a C2 cab. Bah. I’ll have one eventually.
If I was you I would eliminate 996’s and stick to 2006+ 997’s so you don’t have to do the IMS upgrade, plus you’ll have a nicer looking Porsche inside and out.
Just make sure you find a reputable shop or dealer to do a thorough PPI, try to see if you can get the previous owner’s contact info and give them a call and buy an aftermarket warranty from a known company (search for good ones on Rennlist).
Then drive the hell out of it.
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BREADwagon
> MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
10/23/2015 at 13:12 |
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Max budget is High $30s WITH tax. NorthEast region (NYC).
I have a miata that I autoX and track, so I’m looking for something that’s comfortable to daily, but still fun. Manual is not necessarily a prerequisite, as long as the auto is a really good box.
The other car I’m looking into is a Z4M Coupe, but it looks like the 996/997.1 would be more live-able with potholes. Same goes for the 135i, Cayman, and E46M3. I don’t really feel the B8 S4, Golf R, STi, Evo, Jag XK, or Mustang/current pony cars. I like them, but don’t want to pay for them ;)
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Arrivederci
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 13:12 |
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Also, I found this one when I was, ahem.... “browsing” ... the other day. Nice 997.1 C2 coupe, SportDesign wheels, 2-owner, SportChrono, etc.
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BREADwagon
> Tom McParland
10/23/2015 at 13:13 |
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I wish there was one close to the city, I’m sure it would be boomin!
But 70-120 miles is not out of the question to pick up the car...the only problem is you can only really check out one location at a time.
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Tom McParland
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 13:16 |
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Check out the inventory online...if you see something really good anywhere in the country it might be able to be transferred to any of the CT locations.
This is the least expensive 997 with the 6MT at the moment.
mjswee
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 13:19 |
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I bought my 2004 C2 from a Porsche dealer a year ago and would do it again. When I was researching before I bought mine, I read to stay away from ones dealers got at auctions and that trade-ins/local cars to the dealer are generally better.
Especially with a positive PPI, I would say go for it.
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BREADwagon
> Arrivederci
10/23/2015 at 13:19 |
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I saw this one on autotrader! It’s much cheaper than similar cars, though.
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BREADwagon
> Arrivederci
10/23/2015 at 13:20 |
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I thought the motor was revised in 2009?
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BREADwagon
> mjswee
10/23/2015 at 13:25 |
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I guess a way to see how the dealer got the car would be run a carfax, and see how the title traded hands last? (other than asking, since I wouldn’t always believe the person on the phone)
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BREADwagon
> Svend
10/23/2015 at 13:27 |
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We don’t even get these in the states. I saw the top gear episode with hammond driving one...if I had the means I would daily this in a heartbeat!
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mjswee
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 13:29 |
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Yes, CarFax should show if it was acquired at auction. I would ask too as I’ve always found my local Porsche dealers to be truthful (same with most of the luxury makes). Some independent dealers, I wouldn’t trust however.
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MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 13:33 |
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Personally, since you don’t seem to be afraid to buy used I’d be buying a CTSV. Smooth and very livable even with bumps, but more than enough fun-ability. If somehow that’s not fun enough, I would be buying a Corvette over a Porsche.
I don’t have high 30’s burning a whole in my pocket though.
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Svend
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 13:34 |
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My god I would to.
It’s a very practical car. Look at the load aperture and the floor inside.
Great little (secured) load lugger.
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E92M3
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 13:45 |
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Penfed would do it. They are 2.99% though on a used car loan. I think it will be hard to get under 2% for a used car. Many dealers have special promotions for new cars or CPO cars, but not usually on a Non-CPO used car.
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BREADwagon
> MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
10/23/2015 at 13:49 |
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I’ve thought about the 2nd gen CTSV, but haven’t done any sort of serious research into it. I drove one at Monticello back in the day for a Cadillac experience thing, and it was my first real track experience. All I remember about it was the torque! I have to go test drive one again. It would definitely be a less expensive option than a 911 in more ways than one!
I looked at C7s...wayyy out of price range. The C5/C6 vette seems too summer oriented in my mind. I don’t know how to describe it, but I don’t think it’ll do handle the winter, even with snow tires. I’m also looking for something with more upscale interior materials...seeing how my miata doesn’t HAVE an interior, and the Focus actually has a decent feel to everything.
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MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 14:06 |
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CTSV
CTSV
CTSV
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BREADwagon
> MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
10/23/2015 at 14:23 |
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LOL dat CTSV WAGOOOOOOOONNNNNN. I’ll start to read up on them too.
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Arrivederci
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 14:25 |
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Carfax shows clean and it’s at a P-car dealer. They usually won’t put their reputation on the line if they know what they’re selling is junk. It’s a fair price, if you’re interested you should give them a call.
Also, buy it so I don’t! :)
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Arrivederci
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 14:29 |
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It was changed from the M96/97 to the 9A1 for the 2009 model year, which got rid of the IMS altogether as well as becoming DFI, I think. The 2005+ models got a revised IMS, which has a very low failure rate, but some 2005 cars seemed to have a higher rate of issue than any 2006+ models.
Bottom line, if you don’t want to have any concerns and a really nice interior, save up or spend big and go for the 997.2. If you don’t want to do that, get the nicest 2006+ 997.1 you can find. Just my $.02.
Personally speaking, I’ve decided to try and wait until 997.2 GTS’s fall to a reasonable pricepoint.
Jonee
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 14:47 |
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Why did you move on from the ST? Just for something new?
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MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 15:13 |
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And if you want, you can always get AWD to help even more with that winter scenario.
DO IT
It will change your life!
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BREADwagon
> MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
10/23/2015 at 15:24 |
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Do you have one? I just quickly looked at asking prices, I didn’t realize how well they’ve kept up their values. A 2nd gen is mid-high $30s! That’s more expensive than a perfect 996.
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BREADwagon
> Jonee
10/23/2015 at 15:30 |
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Haven’t moved yet, but I will after the winter. I just slapped some snow tires on it!
There’s a few reasons, I’m just sort of getting tired of it. I was hoping I’d fall in love with it like I did with my NA miata...I just never did.
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MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 15:43 |
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Smoother over those potholes though.
And no I don’t have one, I’m way to broke for that man!
I would take a Cadillac over the Porsche in an INSTANT though.
Especially if it said V on it’s ass.
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Jonee
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 15:44 |
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Ah, cool. Enjoy the winter in it, then. I’m thinking I’m going to be in the market for one soon. It was sort of love at first drive for me, but I’m wondering what it’ll be like to live with. I’ve never really owned a modern “performance” car before.
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BREADwagon
> Jonee
10/23/2015 at 16:01 |
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Potholes just make the oem ‘snowflake’ tires bend like none-other. The eagle F1 tires are garbage in the rain after the first 2/32nds“ of tread wears, not to mention they wear pretty fast. But for the cost of the tire, it’s not bad. They also have literally zero traction in the snow (I couldn’t even get out of a level parking spot with a dusting of snow, just wheelspin). Michelin Pilot SuperSports are highly rated and seem to be a significant upgrade over the F1s in the dry and wet. Snow tires are a must if you live in an area that gets it.
The ST uses the brakes to limit wheel spin, so even in a straight line, the brakes get very hot (if you go wide open throttle in 1st, 2nd and even 3rd). The engine harness has bad crimps, causing a rough idle. They recalled ‘13s and ‘14s, and soldered the crimps, but it doesn’t really fix the rough idle issue for the cars that have it (which I believe is probably caused by the fact that other engine harness crimps were poorly done also). But, it only really happened to me when the AC was on. A raised idle (to 900rpm) with a Cobb AP completely fixes the issue, and a stage 1 flash turns the car into what it should have been off the show room floor. The stock FMIC is undersized and heatsoaks very quickly.
But for NORMAL daily driving, it’s very rewarding. Spirited driving is very fun, then the tires and brakes show their weaknesses...but it’s very difficult and stupid dangerous to get to that point on the public roads. I’d venture to say that the normal driver will never get to that point. Speeding onto a clover-leaf onramp is VERY fun in the car.
I’ve had 6 people including me in the car with bags in the back, I’ve moved fridges, tires/rims to be mounted.... And before this past winter with all the potholes, when the rims were actually round, I’d set the cruise control to a....brisk....speed and have a quiet conversation with other people in the car since the wind noise was so low.
The audio quality of the ‘upgraded’ Sony system is actually pretty terrible. But, I’m a fan of SYNC and the navigation setup is pretty sweet. The auto-climate control works great, but I still have to look down to turn on/off the AC. It pisses me off that the only way to turn off the dual temperature settings is to click through the touch screen temp settings, rather than the hard buttons.
Over the 2 years/27k miles I’ve had it, only 1 rattle formed, which comes from the overhead sun-glasses holder thingy. It’s apparently a TSB that can be fixed, I just don’t even notice it anymore. You can turn off the no-seatbelt dinging noise, which is FANTASTIC. I militantly wear my seatbelt, but some of my friends who ride shotgun don’t. I yell at them, but it’s their prerogative!
The mixed leather/cloth Recaros in my ST2 are my absolute favorite car seat of all time. I sort of want to swap them with some other Focus seats before I trade in the car!
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Jonee
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 16:25 |
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Awesome. Thanks for the rundown. I loved those seats as well. They’re perfect. I’ll be using it mostly for daily road driving and it does seem to be the most fun for the money out there for that purpose.
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BREADwagon
> Jonee
10/23/2015 at 16:27 |
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Bang for the buck, it’s hard to touch! It’s one of the reasons I bought it :)
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Jonee
> BREADwagon
10/23/2015 at 20:32 |
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Yeah, I thought it performed like a car two to three times the price. Fit and finish may reflect the sticker, but who cares?
spdrac35
> BREADwagon
10/24/2015 at 07:53 |
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I actually sold my ST back in the summer and have been looking for the right 996 too. I would buy from a dealer, but only if I had a shop that knows these cars very well do the PPI. Most dealers have no idea about these cars and what pitfalls they have. I felt much more comfortable talking with the previous owner when looking at a 996. As others have said, PenFed should finance a 996 even if purchased from a private seller.
DrScientist
> BREADwagon
11/03/2015 at 00:46 |
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the only reason not to buy one of these cars from a dealership is that you’ll pay a premium over a private sale.
otherwise its the same thing more or less. if you get a good seller, and have a credit union youre freindly with, financing a private sale isnt impossible. just a bit more paperwork, and potential inconvenience for the seller.