It Was Always Going To Die

"PS9" (PS9) 10/15/2015 at 11:53 • Filed to: None

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Ferrari was never going to let this thing become the supercar it deserves to be. It’s already too close. It’s really just a few key features away from true greatness. But nope. ‘Greatness’ is not something you bestow to your bargain basement brand, as unfair as that is to Dodge and the Viper.

Not quite as good as other options at six figures, not quite featured enough to draw moneyed buyers away from their traditional now tech-laden watering holes, not quite cheap enough to keep the C7 from beating it at it’s own game, not quite. Good. Really good. Awesome even. But not quite.

It’s unfortunate that Dodge isn’t independent like Ford. Then maybe we could get a DCT and an 8k RPM V10. But they aren’t. So we can’t.

It’s unfortunate that GM isn’t a subsidiary hamstrung from keeping the Corvette project from surpassing other more important products the same cluster of companies offers in the market. Then maybe the C7 wouldn’t be a cheaper alternative that hits most of the viper’s targets. But they’re not. So it is.

It’s unfortunate the Vipers return and rebirth only left it in the same awkward spot it was the last time it left the market. Before they didn’t have the money to make it as good as it needed to be. Now they do, but will never be allowed to use it. Maybe that’s not so bad though. Perhaps the real legacy of the Viper is not one of the car that needed to become super and never could. Maybe is one of the car that shouldn’t have existed at all but did anyway, and lived life on it’s own terms.

CAcoalminer > PS9 10/15/2015 at 11:58

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The engine was always one of my biggest annoyances with the Viper. It just didn’t sound very pleasing at all. In addition, I was always curious why they couldn’t make at least 700hp out of an 8.4L V10. Oh well.

Punk_Girl_98 > PS9 10/15/2015 at 12:01

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:’(

HammerheadFistpunch > PS9 10/15/2015 at 12:02

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The viper always had 1 big problem; it never had a future. It was a factory baked hot rod built on a “what if” it never had a serious and legit business case and the fact that each new version had to live up to the raw craziness of the original meant it was forever hamstrung by its own former glory. Could you imagine if they didn’t have to put that boat anchor of a V10 in it and could have done anything they wanted? it could have been really something.

Leon711 > PS9 10/15/2015 at 12:03

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What you mean is if it was owned by VAG it could compete with it product because vw ain’t care. 911/huracan/r8/viper all under that VAG umbrella.

Party-vi > PS9 10/15/2015 at 12:04

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VIPER PRODUCTION ENDING EVERYBODY PANIC

*waits one year*

SPY PICS OF NEW VIPER OUT

Literally every damn time. Simmer down, folks.

Wheelerguy > PS9 10/15/2015 at 12:08

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It’s the American Supercar we want, but not the one we either deserve or getting.

Rest in peace, Viper.

Long live Viper.

Milky > HammerheadFistpunch 10/15/2015 at 12:10

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I agree with “it was a what if” car, but not the boat anchor comment. What else could Chrysler had done in 1990 to get 400hp?

I just looked it up and the Viper was as fast to 60 and the quarter mile as a Diablo. Food for thought.

HammerheadFistpunch > Milky 10/15/2015 at 12:12

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You misunderstand, I think the original was great, the trouble was that going forward the Viper had to carry that legacy around and the V10 was not the best choice if they wanted to make it a serious model with a future. Its the same problem the Vette has, where can they go from here? Will they actually buck tradition and mid engine the sucker? who knows. Ford was faced with the same problem with the GT, and they made the smart move and dumped the legacy to focus on the future.

davedave1111 > PS9 10/15/2015 at 12:17

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The Viper could and should never be a supercar. That’s short for super sportscar. The Viper should be proud to hold its head high as the first super-muscle car, not go around ashamed of itself and pretending to be something it isn’t.

Anyway, Ferrari couldn’t give a rat’s arse about anything Dodge do. It looks to me more like the Viper occupies much the same niche as the Hellcat.

Milky > HammerheadFistpunch 10/15/2015 at 12:21

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Ahh I see. I still think 645HP from whatever engine at $85k is a good deal. But I get your point.

EL_ULY > CAcoalminer 10/15/2015 at 12:21

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I was always curious why they couldn’t make at least 700hp out of an 8.4L V10

Overbuilt > Over engineered

Example 2: The 1200+hp Hennessy Venom GT is running a stock Ford GT gearbox.

Those giant Viper V10s could be bumped it up to 800-1000hp easy, driven hard everyday, and they’ll keep running like a champ for a long time.

EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch 10/15/2015 at 12:25

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big ass V10 > tiny V8’s and V6T

sure, not the “future” of engines. Not the most innovative, but the badassnessity of it is off the fucking charts!

DoYouEvenShift > CAcoalminer 10/15/2015 at 12:26

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The engine is my favorite part of it! And if it doesnt die, itll get to 700 and more over time. Dont forget, it started at 420, and is at 645 now.

HammerheadFistpunch > EL_ULY 10/15/2015 at 12:27

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You’re not wrong. But its also a lousy way to sell a car.

EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch 10/15/2015 at 12:32

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I’d buy it if I could. Give me an ACR with that beast of a “truck engine”

America! If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

CAcoalminer > EL_ULY 10/15/2015 at 12:33

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Well, the case with the Ford GT is that they overbuilt everything because they literally didn’t have time to deal with issues. The timeline was just too short to fit in fine tuning the vehicle’s dynamics and worrying about the reliability of parts. As for the gearbox itself, the only weakness is the clutch, as it will have to be replaced if you’re running anything over 750 hp. Either way though, that entire drivetrain is absolutely terrific as the engine can also easily handle over 1,000 hp without being modified.

However, the Viper I feel is in a different boat. The team building it aren’t under the same constraints as the GT one so why didn’t they take the time to push the engine closer to its limit while still maintaining a decent margin of safety (i.e. have it making 750 hp but built it to withstand at least 850).

HammerheadFistpunch > EL_ULY 10/15/2015 at 12:34

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Its an amazing car but...it is broke. Its not crazy enough or cheap enough, its in the middle.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > PS9 10/15/2015 at 12:37

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I always thought this car was quintessentially American, even moreso than the Mustang and Corvette. It’s pretty big (well, it’s not a small car anyway), has flashy styling, and that “no replacement for displacement” attitude. It’s excellent! The ACR ones are also just plain mad.

However, when it comes down to numbers, it’d be hard to turn down paying less for a 707-hp Hellcat - I think this generation Viper is great, but it needs MORE ridiculousness to justify the price, like 750hp stock.

Another comment here mentions the fact that the original Viper was competing with Diablos. A little bit more power here would bring the current Viper into Aventador territory - despite this, the differences as it stands are pretty marginal anyway.

Apart from the displacement, I think the numbers were against the current-gen Viper from the beginning.

CAcoalminer > DoYouEvenShift 10/15/2015 at 12:37

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I understand that but I am just a bit disappointed that they don’t seem to be pushing to get the most out of the current car that they can.

BloodlessWeevil > PS9 10/15/2015 at 12:50

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OK, three things:

Ferrari does not own FCA, it is the other way around. However, Ferrari operates completely independently from other FCA marques so it does not matter one way or the other.* Even if it did...

The viper does not compete with any Ferrari and never could no matter how fast or what features are added. People just don’t cross-shop the king of muscle cars with a Ferrari.

FCA has been dumping funds into Alfa, it takes a lot of money to grow your lineup by half a dozen models in as many years. They cannot even afford to redesign the Challenger/Charger/300 platform, which is still based on an old Daimler chassis if I recall correctly.

*This could actually give Dodge access to Maserati or Ferrari derived engines. FCA could bring it back with a new platform designed around one of those if they wanted to.

Sneaky Pete > HammerheadFistpunch 10/15/2015 at 13:01

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Boat Anchor? Have you ever driven a Viper?

HammerheadFistpunch > Sneaky Pete 10/15/2015 at 13:03

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I never said it was slow, its just a big ass engine.

EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch 10/15/2015 at 13:17

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No

Sneaky Pete > DoYouEvenShift 10/15/2015 at 13:59

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Started in 92 at 400 HP, bumped up to 450 in 96.

The engine is also one of my favorite parts, it’s what makes it unique. It makes great power, gobs of torque, simply, in a fairly compact, lightweight package due to the aluminum construction and cam-in-block pushrod design.

Sneaky Pete > davedave1111 10/15/2015 at 14:04

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You’re right, Ferrari is more concerned about image. The previous model Viper ACR is faster around the Nurburgring than anything Ferrari has ever made.

Viggen > PS9 10/15/2015 at 14:09

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It needed a DCT. It needed more advertising. It needed a manufacturer willing to support its future. But most importantly it needed a world with no Hellcats.

Vicente Esteve > PS9 10/15/2015 at 14:17

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Is it Viper Posts Season?

uofime-2 > Party-vi 10/15/2015 at 14:32

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There’s not place for your calm logic here on the internet, get out!

DoYouEvenShift > Sneaky Pete 10/15/2015 at 14:44

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Oh yes definately. Big inch pushrod motor! Looove that power from idle to redline!

wiffleballtony > PS9 10/15/2015 at 18:10

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I’d rather have a Viper T/A than most Ferraris.

Nauraushaun > CAcoalminer 10/15/2015 at 23:03

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America has a long and colorful history of getting pitiful power from absurdly big engines

Nauraushaun > PS9 10/15/2015 at 23:03

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Ferrari was never going to let this thing become the supercar it deserves to be.

Hang on. Is this really Ferrari’s fault?