In Which I Rant About the Bastardization of a Phrase

"Jcarr" (jcarr) 10/09/2015 at 16:20 • Filed to: Fallacies, Philosophy 101

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I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase “begs the question”. Probably in a context like this:

John and Rebecca argue all the time, which begs the question: “Why don’t they just break up?”

This is not begging the question.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (also known as circular reasoning) is an informal fallacy which basically boils down to using an initial premise to prove itself.

Example:

Brown RWD diesel manual wagons are popular because everyone wants one.

In other words, they’re popular because they’re popular.

The statement offers no actual proof to support the premise.

So there you have it. Now please, stop saying “begs the question” when you mean “raises the question”.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:28

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Urambo Tauro > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:28

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I could care less.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:28

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With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:29

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Mmmmm... pedantry.

Jcarr > Urambo Tauro 10/09/2015 at 16:30

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Jcarr > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 10/09/2015 at 16:30

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Damn straight!

PS9 > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:31

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Meh. Language is a fluid who viscosity is determined by popular vote. There’s enough nuance between ‘begging the question’ and ‘begs the question’ for you to know which form one means in conversation.

dogisbadob > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/09/2015 at 16:31

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kinja posted it twice :p

Jcarr > PS9 10/09/2015 at 16:32

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jariten1781 > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:32

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There’s a colloquial meaning and a formal meaning. This is not abnormal nor inherently bad.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > dogisbadob 10/09/2015 at 16:33

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That just makes it more appropriate.

Jcarr > jariten1781 10/09/2015 at 16:34

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What about when the colloquial form is a result of misuse of the formal? I know, bigger fish to fry. It just annoys me.

ly2v8-Brian > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:35

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That feeling when someone says “for all intensive purposes”

Urambo Tauro > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:37

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LOL; I was hoping you’d get it!

For what it’s worth, I carefully chose my words and said what I meant. It does in fact grind my gears, a little.

Brian, The Life of > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:38

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I need to go to an ATM machine and enter my PIN number.

/runs

Jcarr > Brian, The Life of 10/09/2015 at 16:40

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RIP in peace.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:41

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“irregardless of the circumstances...” just shoot me okay?

ttyymmnn > PS9 10/09/2015 at 16:41

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That sounds like a similar argument to those who suggest that we dump the apostrophe because the context of the sentence will indicate whether or not the word is possessive. Lunacy, I say.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:42

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Unless you can ask “How do you know?” in response to a proposition, you cannot “beg the question”.

In other words, what is the supporting evidence for the proposition?

crowmolly > ly2v8-Brian 10/09/2015 at 16:42

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Makes me want to put them in “intensive care”

Urambo Tauro > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:42

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Cadillac CT6

ttyymmnn > Brian, The Life of 10/09/2015 at 16:43

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I smile every time I get gas at Costco, 1) because it’s so cheap, and 2) because I am prompted to enter my “PIN code.” That may still be a tad redundant, but at least it’s not “PIN number.”

Jcarr > Urambo Tauro 10/09/2015 at 16:43

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HA!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:44

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This is perhaps also an oversimplification, as to my recollection the question begged does not have to be the premise itself. It’s merely a thesis left assumed on which the premise rests. If I’m remembering all this correctly, someone making the argument “Everyone should buy electric or a hybrid to save the planet” begs the question whether electrics and hybrids do save the planet, while the premise itself is a little different. A subtle distinction, and probably nobody cares.

Jcarr > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 10/09/2015 at 16:45

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Sounds right to me.

AntiSpeed > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:47

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So why is it referred to as “begging the question,” and not just “circular reasoning?” What question is being begged for?

Baeromez > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:48

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Also known as the Kardashian fallacy.

Tareim - V8 powered > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:49

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You might like this

Also, you are nothing you are a fool and you are a waste of time goodnight.

Jcarr > AntiSpeed 10/09/2015 at 16:51

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No question is being begged for. That misinterpretation is probably what has led to the phrase being misused. This probably explains it better than I can:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beg_a_que…

coelacanthist > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 16:51

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This is correct. It’s meant to be sarcastic, just like “tell me about it” means you already know. Logic and spoken language are different. Logic is strict and unchanging. Language is fluid and evolving.

Tareim - V8 powered > Urambo Tauro 10/09/2015 at 16:51

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That’s means you do care... at least a little...

Mattbob > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/09/2015 at 16:54

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irregardless is not a word..... That alone makes that sentence stab worthy.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Mattbob 10/09/2015 at 16:58

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I am not-not regarding this? It’s a word that I have heard and missused myself over the last few years. When I realized how stupid it was, I stopped my use immediately.

jariten1781 > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 17:02

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It’s totally cool to fight it when it’s nascent ...like recently with drones vs. quadcopters... but once the ship’s sailed (like it has in the near past on my example, and the long long past for yours) you’re not fighting the folks misusing it, you’re fighting history which really isn’t a battle that can be won unless you become an emperor and do a purge or something.

You can do it, but it’ll only end in tears (well, just minor frustration)

Very Respectfully,

Ex, (and still occasional), -Pedant

Sam > crowmolly 10/09/2015 at 17:02

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I think you mean, “intents and care”

Jcarr > jariten1781 10/09/2015 at 17:04

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Become an emperor. Got it.

davedave1111 > Mattbob 10/09/2015 at 17:04

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It plainly is a word. It’s a stupid, bastard word, a solecism the use of which generally denotes a lack of interest in using language well, but there’s no doubt that it’s a word with a generally understood meaning.

TheHondaBro > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 17:06

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Brown RWD diesel manual wagons are popular because everyone wants one.

That statement seems 100% correct to me.

You claim the statement is ultimately circular, but the validation of popularity is in popularity itself. You can claim it’s popular because it’s brown, but then you’d support that by saying everyone wants brown cars (a=b, b=c, therefore a=c). Therefore by the transitive property, it’s popular because everyone wants one.

In that example, you’re giving validation to its popularity, not the item itself. Frankly, there’s no other way to explain why something is popular.

Jcarr > TheHondaBro 10/09/2015 at 17:09

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Might have been better if I’d said “are in demand” instead of “are popular”.

davedave1111 > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 17:14

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I always felt that ‘beg the question’ is fair game for having its meaning changed, because it’s a mistranslation to start with. It’s basically an ancient version of sending things through an automatic translator into another language, then from that into a third - the results can be quite funny.

In this case, the phrase went from Greek, where it meant to ask for the starting premise of a debating game in which the point was to work out the premise without asking for it, to Latin, where it became ‘asking for the starting point’. From Latin it was translated, apparently word by word, into English. You can see how ‘beg’ is a perfectly valid single word alternative meaning to ‘ask for’, just not the right one in this context.

RallyWrench > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/09/2015 at 17:15

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There should be a comma between “matter” and “and.” Also, there should be some form of punctuation, preferably an exclamation, following “language,” these being separate sentences. ;)

Jcarr > davedave1111 10/09/2015 at 17:20

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Definitely. The translation has really set it up to be misinterpreted.

AntiSpeed > Jcarr 10/09/2015 at 18:06

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“The term ‘begging the question,’ as this is usually phrased, originated in the 16th century as a mistranslation of the Latin petitio principii,which actually translates as ‘assuming the initial point.’”

Well there you go. Don’t blame people for a perfectly reasonable mistake. Blame the idiot who couldn’t translate it from Latin.

PS9 > Brian, The Life of 10/09/2015 at 18:31

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Rest in RIP, friend.

Mattbob > davedave1111 10/10/2015 at 16:17

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It is a thing that should not be. Accepting it only gives it more power. I refuse to accept it as a word.