The hunt is on! Help my wife and I find a new vehicle.

"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich) 01/23/2015 at 10:32 • Filed to: None

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Right now my wife is driving a 2-door Cavalier. Now that we've got a baby, she's thinking that something with four doors would be a bit more practical. The Cavalier also doesn't have enough trunk space for our large jogging stroller unless we fully take it apart.

So, here's our requirements:

Must:

Have 4 doors

Have room for a large jogging stroller

Get similar or better fuel economy to the Cavalier (which has probably been averaging about 25 MPG).

Be reasonably sized. Full-sized trucks and vans are out. At one point in time my wife had to drive her parent's Ford Taurus. She described it as "a boat". We also live in a basement suite, and the parking spots aren't huge. Doing a 30-point turn every time you need to drive somewhere is less than ideal.

Be reasonably priced. $14k is the absolute hard upper limit of what I'm willing to pay. The less, the better.

Be reliable. The Cavalier has been pretty much trouble-free for two years.

Nice but not critical:

Should have enough space to put the jogging stroller in without having to take the wheels off. Taking the wheels off doesn't take long, but it is a bit of a nuisance. Especially when there's a little person in a car seat screaming at you.

Three rows of seats. We do have on planning more than one child, and the extra room might be nice. This isn't critical, as if we end up only having two children, we can do with something smaller.

Fuel economy better than the Cavalier. This might be a bit difficult, unless it's a hybrid.

All wheel drive. Again, nice, but not critical. Sometimes the roads here can get pretty nasty.

Vehicles I've considered:

Mazda 5 . Reliability, especially transmission issues scare me a bit, though. Does have sliding doors, which makes getting car seats in/out in tight parking spaces a bit easier. I also hear that it drives quite nicely. Prices seem very reasonable (e.g.: $6k-$8k for something that looks reasonable).

Chevrolet Orlando . Seats 7, so there'd definitely be room for whatever crap we throw in it. I can get a 2 year old one in very nice condition for about $14k. I did come across a hail-damaged one for $10k. Definitely on the upper limit of what I'm willing to pay, though. Also, no sliding doors means it might be a bit trickier to get car seats in/out compared to the Mazda 5. Still definitely a viable option.

Honda Element . Seems reasonably practical, and ticks almost all the boxes. Also available with AWD. The seats fold flat and the interior looks easy to clean, which seems pretty cool. There's a decent number of used ones available, and the prices aren't too bad (e.g.: $6k).

Subaru Outback . I do dig Subarus, but finding one without a bazillion kms on it seems a bit tricky. Most of the used ones I've seen for sale are pushing 300,000 km. Looks like it has decent room in the back.

Subaru Forester . Pretty much the same as the Outback, in my books. Similar fuel economy, similar room. Difficult to find one that is reasonably priced without having 300,000+ km on it, though.

Kia Rondo . Previous generation ones are ugly as heck. New ones look pretty nice, but are pushing the price limit on what I'd be willing to pay.

Kia Sorento . Again, previous ones are pretty ugly, and don't get great fuel economy. Similar to the Rondo in that regard. A newer one would be pushing the price limit.

Honda CR-V : Seems to have a decent amount of room in the back. Prices are high, though - especially on anything with less than 200,000 km on it. If I could find a decently priced one, I'd be okay with that.

Toyota Rav4 : Pretty much the same as the CR-V in my books.

Vehicles that have been cut from the list:

Ford Flex. Average fuel economy on Fuelly is abysmal. Otherwise it would tick all the boxes.

Anything with 2 doors. This leaves out Mustangs, Camaros, and BR-Zs/FR-Ses. Will it baby? Probably. Will it wife? Not likely.

Nissan Leaf. I'd love to own an electric or plug-in hybrid, but the cheapest leaf I can find is $20k - more than what I'm currently willing to spend.

Chevrolet Volt. Again, I'd love to own one, but prices are still too high to be considered at this time.

Toyota Prius. Yes, I even looked at Priusses (Prii?). Used ones are still quite pricey, unless they have a million km on them. If I could get a good deal on one, I certainly wouldn't reject it. Yes, I know this is the anti-jalop, but it does well what it was designed to do - haul people from point A to point B in an efficient manner.

4-door Jeep Wrangler (or pretty much any Jeep product). Again, fuel economy on the Wrangler is brutal (e.g.: sub-20 MPG).

Minivans. I know at least one of you will say "just suck it up and get a van". We've only got one child now, and may only have one more. Having a van for just one/two children seems like overkill. If we do end up having 3 children (and moving to some place with a larger parking spot), I'd definitely consider a van then.

So, here's my questions:

Are there any vehicles that I'm missing from my list that I should also consider?

Are there any things that I should look out for in particular with the vehicles that are currently on my list? (E.g.: Do Outbacks have an issue with head gaskets? Will the Mazda 5 transmission explode at 220,000 km, leaving my family and I stranded on the side of the highway?)

It seems like there is really two routes we could go right now: Get something cheap and used, even if it has reasonably high mileage, or pay quite a bit more and get something newer with lower mileage. The price difference seems pretty substantial - e.g.: $6k for a used Honda Element vs. $12k+ for a used CR-V, and there doesn't seem to be much in the middle. Ideally, I'd love something like a Volt, but the prices just aren't low enough for me to consider it yet. Same with something like a Tesla Model S. It's a very cool car, but I can't justify spending that much on a car at this time.

505Turbeaux > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 10:38

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go with the Element. Such an utterly useful car, and ingress is spectacular into the back seats.

Also easy to clean - I have 2 kiddos and I know what is up there

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 10:39

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I know it's only 2 rows of seats, but the Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan/Mazda 6 would be a great option for you.

I know from experience that even large convertible car seats fit in the back (as there is one in the back of my Milan in the parking lot right now), the trunk will fit a jogging stroller, or even a car seat/travel system stroller.

In 4 cylinder you're looking at high 30's on the highway, V6 you're looking at high 20's.

Durability? Indestructible.

Price? 2.5 years ago I bought an 07 milan V6 with 45k miles on it for about 11k.

OPPOsaurus WRX > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 10:40

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2008 can probably be obtained for about $14k.

It fits my double storller, it fits my double jogger, it fits my double kids.....

its fun and if you dont drive like a D you can get 25 mpg

play 'they lived' on youtube and she'll want it.

AWD

BaconSandwich is tasty. > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/23/2015 at 10:42

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I have noticed there are quite a few Mazda 6es on the market, and prices seem reasonable. The only two things that make me hesitate is this: http://tradeinqualityindex.com/reports/Mazda.… and the fact I could get something else for the same price. I hadn't thought about the Fusion/Milan, though.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > OPPOsaurus WRX 01/23/2015 at 10:43

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I'll have to do a bit of searching around. So far the only Subies I've looked at have been the Outback and the Forester.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > 505Turbeaux 01/23/2015 at 10:44

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Given that I currently own a Honda, the idea of fixing things on an Element doesn't scare me as much, as say, working on a Volkswagen/Audi. That, and the AWD version with a lift of a few inches... I think looks pretty good.

My citroen won't start > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 10:45

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I own one and I'm sure you can find one under budget. Full of toys, room for everything, great to drive, uncommon (I might be the only one that considers it a good thing), slightly more powerful H6 engine. Also very safe.

OPPOsaurus WRX > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 10:46

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my kids love it, they go vroom vroom in the back seat.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > My citroen won't start 01/23/2015 at 10:46

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I was wondering about the H6. I've seen decent number of Outbacks listed with it.

That is a pretty nice looking machine.

CalzoneGolem > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 10:47

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We got a Kia Soul. It is peppy and decently fun to drive. It get great gas mileage and that rear seat is at a great height to easily insert or remove a child. Our kids are now 5 and 11 and they and our dog fit in the back seat no problem. The best part? Dem safety ratings! Our insurance went down after we purchased a new car.

jariten1781 > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 10:48

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I'd throw the first gen Mazda 6 wagon or liftback on the list. Price should be well in your range. Difficulty may be finding lowish miles since they were last made in '08. Available with a stick too if that's your bag.

Passat wagons should probably be on there as well. I believe they were available in 4motion as well (maybe).

Maybe able to eek into your price range, the current gen Focus would be worth looking at. They're surprisingly large, probably as versatile as as a generation old CRV or RAV4.

505Turbeaux > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 10:48

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I think that is the winner. Subarus are good but do still have head gasket issues. Also to put on your list a Toyota Highlander is very useful for some of my friends who have dogs and kids. Probably a little cheaper than a RAV4

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 10:52

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My wife really likes her Mazda CX-9, fwiw. Been pretty trouble-free for us for 6 years and 120k+ miles.

Where have all the lightweights gone? > 505Turbeaux 01/23/2015 at 11:00

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The only question mark for the Element is if it can fit said stroller. If it doesn't, I would go with the CR-V. Even when not hauling kids around, it can be especially handy.

My parents have one, and with the back seats folded (completely flat FTW), I fit a full-sized deep freezer and could close the liftgate without a problem.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 11:08

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I wouldn't put TOO much into that site, It says most Milans are off the road around 100k but they are all in the green for reliability. Why would they be off the road?

They are great cars, and worth a consideration imo! I hope i don't jinx myself, but i've gone 45k + miles in 2.5 years and all I've done is brakes, oil changes, and tires.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 11:20

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You already have probably the best vehicle for your needs on that list in the Mazda5. In lieu of that, you might consider one of the boxy vehicles, such as a Kia Soul, Scion xB, or Nissan cube. They're really easy to get in and out of, and they all carry a fairly decent amount of stuff.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 11:27

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I would get the element. My uncle has one and it is okay to drive (with the 5 speed manual) but is reliable (He and his GF drive it to the southern border of Mexico and back, we live in Colorado) and has plenty of space, while being a smaller car.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > CalzoneGolem 01/23/2015 at 14:49

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How much room is there behind the rear seat? I've seen a few of them around, and I'm not sure our large jogging stroller would fit.

Interesting to note about the lower insurance. I'm not sure ours would go down much. More likely it would go up (newer, more expensive vehicle, and all).

BaconSandwich is tasty. > 505Turbeaux 01/23/2015 at 14:52

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Given how common the head gasket issues are, you'd think Subaru would do something about that... also, how much of a nightmare is it to change a head gasket on a Subaru? I imagine it involves pulling out the whole engine. I can't imagine getting in there to work between the heads and the sides of the engine bay.

The Highlander seems like it would be ok, fuel economy wise. I'll have to do a search...

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Where have all the lightweights gone? 01/23/2015 at 14:53

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I sort of suspect the Element could hold the stroller. There seems to be a pretty decent amount of room behind those rear seats. If I do manage to find one locally, I'll have to get a better look at it.

That's pretty cool about the CR-V seats folding flat. I had no idea they could do that.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! 01/23/2015 at 14:57

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I'm really quite surprised how cheaply a Mazda5 can be had.

I did do a search for Scion xBs, but there are hardly any for sale (at all!). I hadn't considered the Nissan Cube. I'll have to throw it on the list. They seem to get surprisingly good fuel economy for being a little box (which I'm certainly not against driving).

505Turbeaux > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 14:57

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you can do the gaskets with the block in place, and it is non interference so there is not much of a timing belt issue. Subaru doesnt do anything because people are still buying, they are making it through warranty, and all is well.

A very interesting thing with that is Subaru sells at the parts counter a "coolant conditioner" that when used neutralizes the coolant and saves many coolant related issues. It costs 5-8$. Why dont they install it?

Hmmmmm ($$$$$$)

BaconSandwich is tasty. > jariten1781 01/23/2015 at 14:59

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I had totally forgotten about the 6 wagon!

As for Passats: I honestly fear German engineering. Maybe it's an irrational fear, but the horror stories I've heard have completely turned me off so-called German reliability. Unless it's an early 1990's BMW, strictly for the purpose of turning into a race car. In that case, I'd be cool with that.

I'll have to see what prices are like for the current gen Focus. They certainly are a nice looking car.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/23/2015 at 15:00

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Yeah, that's the problem with surveys like that. It's next to impossible to tell how reliable a specific vehicle has without knowing the full history of it.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/23/2015 at 15:02

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Not too shabby!

jariten1781 > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 15:20

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Yeah, I had a 6 wagon for ten years. It was pretty rock solid. No transmission or engine issues. Only things that went wrong were the drivers window twice and the intake hose dry rotting. It was still on the original clutch and plugs when I got rid of in with ~120k miles and had only needed brake pads once in that time frame at ~80k.

But yeah, when getting out of it I looked at the new Focus. Like I said, they're shockingly large. They're actually taller and wider than that the gen Mazda 6 though the boot area is about a foot shorter. Probably what I would have gotten if I had a kid, but since I was interested in smaller and lighter it didn't check the boxes.

I also have a GTI now and your VW fear isn't irrational. I will say, though, of the 'way to many issues to count' that I've had (and there have been that many) none have been catastrophic/crippling. Just lots of annoyances that either require replacing parts way too early (ex: coil packs at 30k) or put it out of commission for a day or so (ex: intake manifold destroying itself for no reason at ~45k).

BaconSandwich is tasty. > 505Turbeaux 01/23/2015 at 15:26

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Interesting. I must say, I do like the idea of a non-interference engine.

What exactly does the coolant conditioner do? Keep the coolant pH balance in check?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 15:32

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And I actually meant over 140k - ha!

We bought it new in 2008, when gas prices were $4 a gallon. No one was buying them at the time, and the next year's models were starting to come out as well. We weren't planning on getting a loaded one, but the deals were so good we couldn't pass it up. Ours listed for ~$40k (Grand Touring with nav and rear DVD and AWD) and we got it for nearly $10k less than that. We have three kids and two dogs and a couple kayaks we take out from time to time, and it's been great for us. We've driven it to Colorado several times (it does great in the mountains), Florida and even Montana. Best thing is, I actually don't mind driving it. The steering is quite good for a big crossover.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 15:52

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It's a silly and suspect trick, but I do some research through craigslist.

If people are selling (or trying to sell) 175k mile cars and they say they "run fine" and don't list major repairs, but include detail like "just put on new brakes, new air filter, and new tires" I know they're paying attention to the vehicle and their car is probably just fine. So getting that exam same car at 45k miles tells me I have a looooot of life.

Yes, like I said it's tricky to judge off of random CL posts, but it gives me an idea then I see if consumer sites back it up. Gives me a basis.

CalzoneGolem > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/23/2015 at 16:14

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I don't know about jogging strollers but our big stroller fit. We stuffed 2 hay bales in the trunk. Then 2 more in the rear seat with our youngest.

We went from a 2002 Hyundai Sonata to a 2013 Kia Soul and our ins dropped $10 a month.