Just found these...

"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228) 01/21/2015 at 10:23 • Filed to: None

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16" 8J !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! that should fit on the Jaaag in place of the 15" 6.5J ones it's got at the moment. I could really do with not spending that money, but I'm sorely tempted.

MonkeePuzzle > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 10:30

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if you are seeking someone to encourage you NOT to buy, to assist you in making the right choice, to direct you towards logic and a balance between toys and paying the electric bill...

...you've come to the wrong place

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 10:30

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You have to learn to resist the sirens' call... Says the guy who just yesterday got carried away and bought another car on Ebay.

Will the wheels even make a difference to how the Jag handles? And are you due for new tyres yet? If not, don't forget to add the cost of new rubber.

Jobjoris > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 10:35

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What ever happened with the Range Rover 3-spoke wheels?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 10:35

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Quite sharp. I like that they're a faux knock-off with removable center, gives you a clean look without the headaches, and lightweight.

Quite spendy, obviously, but the Weld wheels for my Ranchero will likely set me back $600+.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > davedave1111 01/21/2015 at 10:38

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Extra inch plus in width and a half inch less sidewall could make for quite a lot on such a heavy car, but a lot comes down to his suspension. I'd imagine the difference *will* be noticeable.

davedave1111 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/21/2015 at 10:39

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Well, I was wondering. It's quite a big change, but I didn't think the Jag was sporty enough that you'd notice much.

davedave1111 > Jobjoris 01/21/2015 at 10:40

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That's for his other Jag...

Jobjoris > davedave1111 01/21/2015 at 10:42

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I'm losing it...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > davedave1111 01/21/2015 at 10:43

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He'll probably eat a set of LSD clutches faster, that's certain. I don't know about front grip, but as cushioned as the rear is, the passive steer will probably make for never losing grip again. It's hard enough to break loose with ordinary tires.
All this is assuming, of course, that he doesn't go for a stiffness upgrade and build a slapdash corner carver out of it, which various lunatics have done. There are sorts who've set up XJ-S and other model racing leagues...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Jobjoris 01/21/2015 at 10:46

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Or he is. Either or.

davedave1111 > Jobjoris 01/21/2015 at 10:47

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How many people round here have two Jags? :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Jobjoris 01/21/2015 at 10:56

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Dave's right, they're for my other Jag :) unfortunately they're the wrong PCD. 5 x 6.5 rather than 5 x 4.75. I've been looking for spacers that adapt between the two, but I haven't been able to find any as yet :S

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/21/2015 at 10:59

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Ouch, that's not cheap :S what wheels are you looking at?

I'll check clearances when I get home and all that. They should stick out 14mm on the inside and 24mm on the outside which I'm not sure is ok on a '40.

I might see how much I can sell my existing 7J 15" Fondmetals for and use that money to make an offer :)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 11:04

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I'm looking at Weld Draglites like these, but in a 5-lug. Looking to paint the web (leaving the rim gloss metal), and to put my Ford dogdish hubcap in the center. These go new for ~$200 per, but can be cheaper used, or if I buy the JEGS alternative with single pattern (cast, not welded).

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 11:07

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Here's a roundbody Falcon on Draglites of a slightly more aggressive sort than I'd get. I of course can't sell my existing 13" four-lug steelies for much of anything...

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/21/2015 at 11:10

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Another car! Which one did you get?

I've just been due for new tyres, so I'm already rolling on fresh rubber. Less than ideal, but will up the price that I can sell my existing wheels for if I do get them (or take the tyres off, sell them separately and then sell the rims).

Probably negligible effect on handling and ride, but they would certainly look sweet :)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 11:13

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I wondered about that - I guess it's the modern Rangies that use a 4.75. I've seen Series wheels on Rangie hubs fit, so when you were talking three-spokes on 4.75, I thought to myself "that can't be right... can it?"

I do know there are people who make custom hubs for Jag rears, but that's the rear only, and they'd likely not have a 6" center option anyway.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 11:20

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"Another car!"

Hey, I only have two now. I'm not as bad as you yet :)

I 'won' the auction for that Camry I posted the other day. Not sure if it was a terrific or terrible idea. It ought to be reasonably rapid, economical, quite comfortable, ridiculously reliable, and the insurance is less than the annual tax bill. Low miles, pretty much mint apart from this:

I'm a little surprised to find out how much I like the looks, too.

It's not stunning, but it's very smart.

I think I need something to drive around in while I fix the BMW properly, so this seems to fit the bill.

"Probably negligible effect on handling and ride, but they would certainly look sweet :)"

Well, maybe I'm stingy, but 25% of the car's purchase price might be a bit much for rims - or at least a bit lower down your list of priorities.

I guess what I should have said wrt the wheels is 'how's the Spit coming along?' ;)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/21/2015 at 11:50

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Neat :) 'sharp' is a perfect descriptor. Not bad at all :)

Good point about priorities. I've got a lots of expenditure coming on the spitfire so I should do that :)

Vis-a-vis the Spitfire, I've just ordered a shit-ton of rear suspension components. Alloy wishbones, vertical links, alloy diff casing, hubs and brackets. I've already got radius arms, leaf spring, shocks, CV axles and polybushes so all that's left is the torsen LSD and some bearings then I've got the whole rear suspension together.

While they're en-route I've ordered some cool hole-cutters * and swage dimple tools so I can cut holes in the extremities of the chassis to lighten the weight. Then I'm going to stitch-weld it (or seam-weld) for a tad extra strength and then send it off to the chassis treatment people :)

Then it's front suspension, the last few bits of the engine, then bodywork then interior :)

*I haven't watched this video with audio, apologies if it's offensively patronising as many of these how-to's are...

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/21/2015 at 11:53

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Yeah it's TD5 Rangies onwards that use 4.75, and Disco 2s as well. Anything earlier is 5 x 6.5 like Defenders and Classic Ranges.

You can find spacers that go from 6.5 to 4.75 so people can fit blingy 18" wheels to their Defenders, but none going the other way :S

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 11:54

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Holy mother of god. I'm going to be the bad influence and say BUY THEM NAO

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/21/2015 at 11:55

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Oooh now that will look very pretty. Are you going to have drag-style skinny fronts and meaty rears, or a more balanced setup?

What colour will you paint the web?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 11:58

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Time to turn machinist, I'd wager. With a turning down of the outer perimeter of the drive flanges, it'd be possible to seat studs in an adapter *past the edge* without adding any depth needed on the wheel.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 11:59

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How much weight are you saving at the rear end? Sounds like a lot.

And punching holes in the chassis is really going some...

"Then it's front suspension, the last few bits of the engine, then bodywork then interior "

Practically finished already ;)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/21/2015 at 11:59

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I really really like them. If only they'd come up when I was looking for new tyres...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 12:01

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I'll either go with a black web or a body color one - leaning body color. It'll depend somewhat on what body color ends up being. Slightly more balanced than a drag setup, but still probably fatter in back. I test-fit the 215/70 R15 that I've got as a spare for my Benz in the rear wheel wells, and I can squeeze about an inch of width past that, so I shall - no need to tub it out enormously, just clean up and possibly reshape the existing wells a touch.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/21/2015 at 12:07

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I like the idea of body colour with hubcaps in the middle. Kind of old Mercedes-esque with their body-coloured hubcaps :)

I can't wait til it's done :) it's going to be a hell of a car.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 12:11

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I haven't quite decided on tires - possibly a 1" to 2" whitewall.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/21/2015 at 12:17

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Nice idea :) I did wonder about buying the 6.5>4.75 spacers and spin them around, machining out any odd bits. If they weren't £500 I'd have done that already :)

I've got a lathe actually, we just need to get it working :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/21/2015 at 12:18

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Probably closer to 'practically 40% done' if I'm honest ;)

I'll save about 16kg all told over a standard rotoflex setup, and about a 30% reduction in unsprung weight which is quite a hefty saving :)

I'll be punching holes in the parts of the chassis (and body) not used for structural purposes. Like the little bar that runs across the front and holds the grille and valences. The main chassis rails will stay intact :)

DrScientist > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 12:29

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i'd say jump on these. finding a nice, sporty set of 16 inch wheels with the correct jag bolt pattern and offsets is a complete chore.

i'm pretty sure these wheels (or something like them) were found on the lister appearance package on some XJS's. the standard XJS's had the 15 inch lattice wheels from about 89-92, for which decent tires are currently a pain to find or expensive. they made 16 inch lattices for a few cars but they're near impossible to find. then they moved up to 16 inch 5 spoke wheels, which are a bit sporty, but probably not right for your car.

the difference between these and the standard lattices are that lug nut cover. where the standards have the nuts exposed.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/21/2015 at 15:37

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Purdy :) I like the 1" whitewalls myself, although you'd have to offer them up to the car to see whether it needs a bit more visual punch in the wheel-wells .

What colour are you thinking for the body?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > DrScientist 01/21/2015 at 15:47

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Tell me about it with the 15 inchers having pain in the arse tyres. I've just sourced a set of 4 :S

I'm not a fan of the 5-spoke ones. They're cool wheels, but don't really suit the character of the car.

I might offer him £300 and see if he takes it. They are very, very cool wheels :)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 15:59

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One option is Arcadian Blue with a Wimbledon White side relief:

The earlier period colors close to those are also an option:

Although, the other major alternative would be to paint it in early '60s park service colors and logo - either single tone hunter green with yellow markings or a hunter green with side relief in yellow or white.

It was originally this color.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/21/2015 at 17:15

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"I'll save about 16kg all told over a standard rotoflex setup, and about a 30% reduction in unsprung weight which is quite a hefty saving :)"

Heh, my mindset comes from mountain bikes, where I'm used to the idea that you never save as much as you think you will, but we're talking grams, not kilos. I've never quite got a feel for car-part weights.

"I'll be punching holes in the parts of the chassis (and body) not used for structural purposes."

Body? Are you going to give it egg-trays in the rear wings, EB110 style?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/22/2015 at 05:54

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Yeah, I've come to that conclusion as well. There's so many little bits that you don't account for weight-wise that anything you do is probably a best-case scenario. I've already found that some of the alloy parts aren't quite as light as the manufacturer suggested. Only in the order of a couple of hundred grams, but it all adds up.

Actually, I wonder if polishing the surface of the alloy parts would help regain a couple of those grams (apparently polishing cast parts helps strength as well as it creates a more uniform surface and takes out little weak spots where crack can appear). Would be pretty much negligible, but add up a lot of negligible losses and you've got a tangible one right?

Hah, I hadn't thought of EB110-style vents :) I was thinking more along the lines of punching holes in the inner wings and the various bits of bracketry that hold the dash in place. Those sorts of things :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/22/2015 at 06:15

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Neat :) cool colour combos. I like the idea of the dark green with yellow accents, but the light blue and white would look fantastic too. What kind of style are you looking for the side relief? Something like you see on the old touring car Galaxies?

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/22/2015 at 06:49

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"I've already found that some of the alloy parts aren't quite as light as the manufacturer suggested"

Cor, what a swizz. Did you try to complain?

"Actually, I wonder if polishing the surface of the alloy parts would help regain a couple of those grams (apparently polishing cast parts helps strength as well as it creates a more uniform surface and takes out little weak spots where crack can appear)."

Yeah, in theory it removes stress risers. In practice, it's not going to make a blind bit of difference. Unless you actually want to start grinding 'unnecessary' chunks away, you're really talking something so negligible that, well, you have to draw the line somewhere. Next you'll be skimping on waxing the paintwork to save a few more grammes. Hey, worn tyres have less rotational&unsprung mass than new ones...

"I was thinking more along the lines of punching holes in the inner wings and the various bits of bracketry that hold the dash in place. "

The dash? You mean you're not replacing the interior with something made of tissue paper and feathers?

Oh, talking of lightness, that reminds me: do you know how 0.5mm ply compares to the steel in the bodywork for weight?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/22/2015 at 08:44

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Nah it's things like '2kg lighter than the cast iron original' and it's actually 1.85kg lighter so it's not worth complaining at all. That kind of difference could be made up in casting differences.

I'll definitely skimp on waxing the paintwork :) that's just standard practice for me anyway, although I don't know whether that would change on a car I've put so much effort into :)

I'm throwing out some of the bits of padding and armrests and things from the interior so yeah, lightweight interior ;) the door cars will be pared down as well, and I could even plane a bit off the dash panels to halve the weight of that...

No idea how ply compares to steel, but I'd wager maybe a 3rd lighter? Similar to fibreglass...

Ask Morgan :) they seem to know their way around archaically constructed vehicles ;)

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/22/2015 at 08:58

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"No idea how ply compares to steel, but I'd wager maybe a 3rd lighter?"

That was roughly my guess as well. So, find all the flat, non-structural bits of steel on the car, cut them out, replace with ply. The boot-lid and floorpan are pretty much flat, aren't they?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/22/2015 at 09:08

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Reverse of that - light body with *lighter* relief, probably. The fun thing if I do green/yellow is that I'd be somewhat doing it in Lotus colors and none would notice.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/22/2015 at 09:14

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Yep :) you can get fibreglass bootlids for not much money, but I'm trying to keep the weight savings focused on the front end to offset the weight of the 6-cylinder. If I wanted ultimate lightness I could probably cut another 50kg out of it, but it would be mostly at the rear and knock off the distribution :S

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/22/2015 at 09:17

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Hah! That would be a real mash-up then wouldn't it? Ford Ranchero with a Jaguar IRS, Range Rover(?) engine that was originally a Rover redesign of a GM V8 with a Lotus colour scheme...

I like the idea of the white relief on light blue though. Would look excellent :)

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/22/2015 at 14:30

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50kg out of how much by now? I take it you've already gone for the fb bonnet? How about wings? Perspex screen?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/22/2015 at 14:53

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I'm not sure how legal perspex screens are on street cars :S if they're fine I might consider that :)

I'm aiming for 750kg overall (or a 30kg increase over the 4-cylinder Spit). I've already got a fibreglass bonnet which saves an excellent 16kg directly off the front, and the front wings are integral to the bonnet. Rear wings I'm leaving steel to balance things :)

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/22/2015 at 15:50

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720kg is the stock weight? I never realised they're quite that light. I guess even an extra 50kg off that doesn't make a whole world of difference.

Will it really affect the balance enough to notice, though?

http://dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehi…

That link suggests polycarb 'glass' might not be legal, but some other stuff on Google suggests it'll pass MOT and it's a bit of a gray area.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/22/2015 at 16:04

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As it's so lightweight, 50kg off one end would really affect the balance. It'd be the difference between a 55% front distribution (not bad for a FR car), and a 59% distribution (approaching some front-drivers). That's definitely going to be noticeable.

I'm sure I could get polycarb in the windows, and I've been weighing up getting fibreglass doors anyway. I'm currently sitting at 757kg with a couple more things to account for, so losing ~16kg from right in the middle of the chassis would probably be ideal :)

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/22/2015 at 16:28

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Oh right, yes. I hadn't appreciated that it's not balanced to start with, even though you've mentioned it a few times. What's a full tank of fuel going to do to the distribution? That would even it up some, I guess.

How much do the seats weigh? Can you lose much there? Other than that, I can see why you're at the drilling-holes-in-things stage.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/22/2015 at 16:41

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Should help a lot I'm thinking :) same weight, but about a foot further back. I did some maths a while back and came up with a weight transfer of ~10kg from the front to the back, but ask me now and I haven't a clue how I hit upon that number...

The seats are pretty sparse so I don't think I could lose anything there and still have them support anything. Perhaps a couple of holes drilled in the rails would help :) good idea. The little rear jump seats will be coming out, so I could probably save half a kilo or so there. I'm also weighing up whether to replace what minimal sound-deadening there was for a couple of kilos more...

It's tricky to lose weight when there's sod all to begin with :S

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/22/2015 at 16:54

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Replace sound-deadening? Did you mean remove? :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/22/2015 at 16:58

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It's already removed ready for painting, weighing up whether to put some back in afterwards :)

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/22/2015 at 16:59

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Wasn't any kind of comfort and quietness the first thing you dropped from the plan? Hell, you can always buy some earplugs.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/22/2015 at 17:40

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Good point :) you've convinced me :)