Obscure Supercars List

"CAcoalminer" (CAcoalminer) 01/14/2015 at 12:45 • Filed to: None

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While I did think today's list was quite good, I'm surprised by the omission of the Lotec Mercedes-Benz C1000. I mean they only made one and it doesn't get much more obscure than this thing:

Also, in case anyone is wondering, it is currently for sale in Charlotte:

http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventor…

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BeaterGT > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 12:59

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The interior is so 90's and I love it. I want to see it in person.

CAcoalminer > BeaterGT 01/14/2015 at 13:06

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I just can't believe how wide this sill is:

BeaterGT > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 13:10

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Everything about it is ludicrous.

CAcoalminer > BeaterGT 01/14/2015 at 13:12

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Very true.

In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 13:12

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GEE. COALMINER COULD BUY THIS THING. MR.458 COULD RESCUE IT!!

CAcoalminer > In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you 01/14/2015 at 13:16

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Haha. I'll leave this one for the "Mr.458" that you referenced, as this vehicle isn't quite my taste. Also, I'm in the process of looking for a certain vehicle right now.

Sn210 > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 13:29

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Lotec in general was nominated, but not enough stars! If I were a big shot collector, the C1000 would be in my museum for sure. I think at one point they were asking a million for it, looks like they've come down a bit but still too high!

http://jalopnik.com/i-love-the-c10…

CAcoalminer > Sn210 01/14/2015 at 13:34

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Interesting. However, it's my understanding that the number of stars don't matter for Answers of the Day. I think it's all up to the authors of Jalopnik to pick the winners.

I guess you pay to have something truly one of a kind.

Sn210 > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 13:38

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oh really? I always though the ones with the most stars got picked and then the Jalopibros ranked them. Regardless, I say the C1000 is #11 in spirit.

CAcoalminer > Sn210 01/14/2015 at 13:54

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Unfortunately, no. I made a post about this once and a lot of people corrected me.

That's a good way of thinking about it.

macanamera > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 14:09

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And what sort of vehicle would that be, my good sir?

CAcoalminer > macanamera 01/14/2015 at 14:21

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All will be revealed in good time, my friend.

macanamera > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 14:35

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Aw, give me a hint. Country of origin??

CAcoalminer > macanamera 01/14/2015 at 14:41

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Italy.

macanamera > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 14:46

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So specifically what kind of Ferrari, haha. We both know you aren't the Lamborghini type!

My guess: a 458.

CAcoalminer > macanamera 01/14/2015 at 14:50

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I was in my younger days! You never know, I could be wanting to revisit my youth.

macanamera > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 14:55

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So a regular 458 or a Spider? I'm guessing Spider. Maybe even a Speciale.

CAcoalminer > macanamera 01/14/2015 at 15:13

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I've said too much already.

macanamera > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 15:18

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I look forward to seeing your post about your new Speciale! Cheers.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 17:49

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Hmm

I hope it's a mint condition blue 512TR

That is an impossible car to find so if you found it you should buy it

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/14/2015 at 19:27

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Thanks for the heads up. I'll be on the lookout.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 19:34

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it would be sooooo sweet

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/14/2015 at 19:40

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I don't know if this is real or not:

http://ferraricollectionforsale.com/ferrari-512.ht…

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 19:53

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wow

I know there was never an official TR spider. Michael Jackson paid to have one converted into a spider.

Not sure about the 512TR

This price is so high that it makes it seem real

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/14/2015 at 20:01

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I'd never heard of it either. I don't know what to believe because the photos seem real but the website seems sketchy.

One thought that passed my mind is that this collection surrounding it looks similar to the photos of the Sultan of Brunei's collection when he was selling a few cars.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 20:36

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you are so good at guessing:

http://carbuzz.com/news/2012/6/15…

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/14/2015 at 20:56

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It seems my memory hasn't completely left me.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 21:09

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haha no it hasn't. you have more automotive knowledge in your left pinky than brian and i have total

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/14/2015 at 21:32

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Maybe so but that's just because I'm old.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 21:38

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no

right word is driven

age alone wouldn't have led to lots of exotic car experience if you had been a bus boy your whole life

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/14/2015 at 21:45

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True.

On a side note, do you want a hint on what car I'm searching for?

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 21:56

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YES

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/14/2015 at 22:08

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599 GTO or 430 Scud. From a pure design standpoint, the 430 would be the winner no doubt. However, I absolutely love the engine in the GTO. Color wise, I'm looking for an Argento Nurburgring or Blu TDF (I might get Nero if the car is perfect). Anyway, there's nothing definitive but after driving a friend's Scud this weekend, I'm starting to get the Ferrari itch again. (My pals are trying to convince me to get an Enzo but I don't know if I want to be making that kind of financial outlay when I could get a 918 or P1 for the same money.) Anyway, we'll see what happens.

Also, it's funny that we were talking about this earlier:

http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/listing/…

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 23:24

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Haha I almost said F430 Scud for some reason as a wild guess but I had no basis for it so I didn't think it was a good guess.

I wish you had got the GTO two years ago. Prices have gone up a LOT in a very short amount of time.

Scud is the better value because it hasn't rocketed up in price, yet.

GTO has the better engine, Scud is lighter and looks better (IMO).

Enzo would actually be a smart buy IMO. It's so rare and seems to be going up in price. The LaFerrari scares some people because of the hybrid driving potentially having issues down the road. Plus it costs more anyways (at least I think it's hard to get one now without spending more than an Enzo).

I had seen that blue 512TR before. If it wasn't on its second engine I would have bought it!

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/14/2015 at 23:37

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Very interesting things to keep in mind.

The only problem I have with the new models is that they sound a bit synthesized and their styling doesn't wow me.

I found that interesting as well. Usually, if the engine has a catastrophic failure, the owner will rebuild it instead of replacing it because they want to keep their car numbers matching. Also, the explanation is fishy.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 23:40

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The sound does seem a bit synthesized on the new models. Even the new V10 Lambo sounds off.

How much garage space do you have? If you have the space then you could probably get an Scud and another car for less than the GTO. You could get a Scud and a Manuél Spider, or a Scud and an F355 coupe or spider, or a Manuél Gallardo, or all sorts of other fun stuff.

Yeah that explanation sounded fishy to me as well. Anyone who knows even a little about exotics knows that it's better to repair the engine to keep the numbers matching.

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/14/2015 at 23:47

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Well, the garage in Dallas is fairly packed but I have 4 spaces in the Telluride winter house. Also, we're in the process of building another house on the ranch outside of Austin which will have 2 garage spaces and a separate barn that is 4,800 sq. ft. In short, space isn't an issue.

Indeed.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/14/2015 at 23:50

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omg dat barn could fit extra cars!!

i forgot to ask:

what's more important right now - enjoyment or how well the car will hold/gain value?

is one more important than the other, or are both equally important?

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/14/2015 at 23:54

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Yes, that is the intent. The wife is starting to get tired of being in the city and would like to move out to our ranch permanently. I've only agreed to build a house there for now because being in Dallas allows us to be close to the kids and grandkids. We'll see what happens with that.

Enjoyment for sure. I've never bought a car because I perceived it as an opportunity to make money. I mean don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to drive a car and not lose or make money on it but I could honestly care less. Life is to short to worry about such things.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/15/2015 at 00:08

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the ranch will be awesome!

if enjoyment is your primary concern then i think the easy way to decide is think about whether you care about track performance more or street enjoyment more

a Scud or GTO would be awesome on track

but a Manuél F430 spider would be super fun on street

and a regular 599 F1 (or 6MT if you can find it) would be very fun on street too

the smell and feel of the Italian leather is just amazing. you don't get that with the track focused cars. i'm sure your wife would enjoy riding in the leather clad cars more. i read on FChat that a Scud owner's wife calls his Scud a "tin can" and likes his other Ferrari that has leather and some sound deadening a lot more

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/15/2015 at 00:14

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Well, I'm about to fall asleep my friend so I will bid you a goodnight. I'll write up a thorough response for you tomorrow and maybe even share our building in progress photos.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/15/2015 at 00:18

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Sounds good my friend. I'm still working. Need to stop now so I can get dinner and get to bed by the same local time you're going to bed now

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 15:15

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I'm fairly set on getting the stripped out models because I have more refined and comfortable cars.

That's actually not necessarily true as Scuderias and GTOs could be ordered with leather interiors. Also, the wife doesn't mind stripped out cars, it's the convertibles that bother her because of her hair.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 15:20

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Oh yeah I forgot your collection of mid engine cars is much larger than mine :)

I forgot you could get the Scuds and GTOs with leather because most of the used ones don't have it.

Haha that's a great point. Most women would rather have a stripped out coupe than a spider with leather because most do not like their hair being messed up!

There is a blue on dark tan 2009 599 GTB F1 for sale right now. So pretty. If I had money to burn I would buy it just for the hell of it even though I prefer the gated shifter.

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 15:34

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I'm sure you'll far surpass me in the no too distant future.

Yup:

Yes, she is quite laid back on most things but her hair is not one of them. Haha

Interesting. Is it TDF?

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 15:43

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Yes it's TDF. So pretty!

Those seats. So nice!

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 15:48

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My favorite Ferrari blue.

Indeed. I've considered replacing a 430 Scud's seats with these (I'd reupholster them to match the interior):

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 16:47

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Good idea!

You can always keep the original seats in case you later sell it

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 16:52

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Exactly.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 16:55

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I didn't know until just now that the 599 GTO is actually faster around some tracks than the Enzo is?

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 17:04

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It's definitely crazy to think about but I guess that's what advancements in technology get you.

On a side note, I've always wanted to put the engine, transmission, suspension, brakes, and electronics (manettino, ecu, E-diff, etc.) from the 430 Scud into an Alfa 8C. The car would finally drive as well as it looks. Also, it would actually make the car more valuable in my opinion because the components in the car currently are all subpar Maserati bits.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 17:08

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Does the 8C have a version of the F430's engine?

If so then your idea might not be that impossible. You might not even have to replace the engine. You could replace some components and tune it.

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 17:35

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Well, they're technically variants of the same engine (Tipo F136). The 430's engine is the F136 E which is a 4308 cc engine producing 483 hp and 343 lb. ft. with a redline of 8,500 rpm (the Scud and 16M use the F136 ED which is still 4308cc but produces 503 hp and 347 lb. ft.). The 8C uses the F136 YC which is a 4691 cc unit that produces 444 hp and 354 lb. ft and has a redline of 7,500 rpm. In addition, the 430's engines are dry sump while the 8C utilizes a wet sump unit.

I don't think so because of the things listed above.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 18:15

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Hmm

You could probably tune the 8C's engine to have more power than the Scud's. But it would still be wet sump.

I need a Scud

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 18:30

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Probably. However, you would have to play with the intake, timing, compression, etc. on top of changing the internals so that the engine could run at a higher rpm. I'd rather just put the new engine in and be done.

You need a 16M.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 18:36

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I need both

And Manuél F430 coupe

Need to have the whole family

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 18:41

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And then on to the 360 Challenge.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 19:12

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That ship has sailed

Time to do that was 4 years ago

So expensive now for what it is

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 19:37

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True. However, I'm actually pleasantly surprised that 16M prices have remained fairly low.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 19:46

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Me too. They haven't really gone up yet. You can still get a 16M for a lot less than a 458 Spider

I can't decide what my future cars will be. My decisions change daily. Here are the plans as of today:

1. 512TR
2. 456 6MT
3. 550
4. F430 Coupe 6MT

The regular TR would be a lot cheaper to buy.

The F430 Coupe would get the most use. Spiders are fun but rearward visibility is better in the coupe. If I had enough money in the future I could make the F430 coupe the car I drive the most and then drive the other ones when I feel like it.

I've never actually driven any of those cars other than the F430 coupe so I wouldn't know if I liked them until I drove them.

The 512TR would probably have the worst ergonomics but is cool because flat 12

The 550 is probably pretty usable

The 456 can fit small children in the back and is the last Ferrari with pop up headlights

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 19:56

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Interesting list. I'm surprised by the 456. Also, why the 550 over something like a 575?

Sounds like a good plan.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 20:03

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I blame the 456 on Brian. He loves it so much and talks about it so much that now I like it too.

There are two reasons for the 550 over the 575M:

1. All 550s are stick so much easier to find the car you want

2. I hate the 575M's headlights

But I have thought of getting a 575M and swapping out the headlights with the 550's. If that is doable then I could do that and just pop the original headlights back in if I sold the car.

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 20:14

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Uh, Brian and his weird car interest. Haha I sure he also wants you to buy a Mondial. I don't know, I just think if you wanted a more practical vehicle, then a Macan would be better but that's just me.

I agree with you on the headlights. That being said, both cars look like their headlight units are similar so a swap may be possible.

Have you ever considered a 308?

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 20:20

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Haha yeah. In the 456's case he is not alone. Half the people on Oppo are pining for it.

He does not want me to buy a Mondial. But I want a Mondial 3.2 because it's basically an open top 328. And I love the 328 but the price of the 328 has gotten out of hand.

I think the Macan will happen one day for sure. I'll buy it for the future wife.

The headlight swap seems doable to me too. The 575M's headlights look like a worse version of the C6's headlights to me. And I'm not a fan of the C6's headlights to begin with.

I'm super fussy about headlights. They are the eyes of the car to me. I really don't like the 360's headlights either.

Before buying the 997 four years ago I saw a black 308 that was in good shape for $35K. I should have bought it instead. I was comfortable with its performance for that price. Now prices are way higher. I'm just not willing to pay over $50K for a well sorted 308

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 20:31

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Really? What individuals of poor taste. Haha

True.

There you go. I support this.

I agree. Definitely not very appealing. In fact, the F430's headlights are one of my favorite features about it. I don't think some people realize how important the headlight design is to making a car look simply ok or amazing. Take the 4C for instance.

I can understand that.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 20:42

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Yeah haha a lot of people love the 456. I'm guessing you don't like the looks.

Yes the headlights are my favorite part of the F430

The Alfa 8C's headlights are some of my faves.

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 21:01

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Interesting and umm... no.

Mine as well. Uh, I'm still frustrated because that car has so much potential.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 21:10

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If we were billionaires we would buy the 8C just because it's beautiful. It wouldn't matter how it performed because we'd have so many other cars

CAcoalminer > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 21:13

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I'd probably still do the swap we talked about. Haha.

Manuél Ferrari > CAcoalminer 01/16/2015 at 21:16

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haha true

cause you'd have the money to do it so why not