I can't even....VERY NSFW

"JGrabowMSt" (jgrabowmst) 01/06/2015 at 14:57 • Filed to: None

4

45

Rubbers, chains and a towel.

I mean, it makes you question why you buy snow tires I guess....

ttyymmnn > JGrabowMSt 01/06/2015 at 15:01

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Step 1: take your clothes off

I'm not sure how I'll get my chains on. I don't own a bikini.

JGrabowMSt > ttyymmnn 01/06/2015 at 15:05

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Time to phone the wife!

Soloburrito > JGrabowMSt 01/06/2015 at 15:06

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I know what else I'd like to see her do with chains....

...tow something.

Xyl0c41n3 > JGrabowMSt 01/06/2015 at 15:21

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Um... Ok. More like makes me wonder why even a how-to about installing snow chains has to be sexualized. And why it has to be shared to Oppo. But, ok.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Soloburrito 01/06/2015 at 15:24

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nononononono...

...phew.

Mathias Rios > JGrabowMSt 01/06/2015 at 15:26

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pfffffft I had envisioned much worse with the VERY NSFW tag haha.

JGrabowMSt > Mathias Rios 01/06/2015 at 15:29

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I'm practicing to be a Gawker writer.

Meatcoma > JGrabowMSt 01/06/2015 at 15:34

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to watch at work or ... eh I'm watching

Meatcoma > Meatcoma 01/06/2015 at 15:36

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replay, she told me to!

ColoradoTaco > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2015 at 15:41

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You're right, it didn't need to be sexualized but you also aren't required to click to watch it either.

ColoradoTaco > JGrabowMSt 01/06/2015 at 15:43

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Never once have I had to apply chains to a normal commuter vehicle to travel to the mountains during Winter. A good set of Winter tires is very helpful but all seasons with plenty of tread works well too.

Xyl0c41n3 > ColoradoTaco 01/06/2015 at 15:43

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True, but by the same token, Oppo doesn't constantly have to be riddled with blatant sexism hidden by the thin veneer of a NSFW tag.

ColoradoTaco > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2015 at 15:45

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It's not even that bad. It was worse at a point. Just keep scrolling if you see the tag. Pretty simple.

I Do It For Miatas, NC Owner > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2015 at 15:48

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Then don't click on it?

Xyl0c41n3 > ColoradoTaco 01/06/2015 at 15:49

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Really? At which point do I have your permission to stand up against the sexism I continually see perpetuated in a community I care about and participate in? At which point is it permissible to speak up about a subset of this culture which alienates not just me but other women Oppos, and other men, as well? That the situation has been worse previously does not suddenly mean criticism is no longer necessary. And the "just don't look" mentality of "just keep scrolling" is one of the weakest arguments one can make. It's a microaggression, in fact.

Xyl0c41n3 > I Do It For Miatas, NC Owner 01/06/2015 at 15:53

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Advising to just ignore a microaggression isn't a valid argument when 1. You are never on the receiving end of that microaggression, and 2. The culture is pervasive and persistent, even after a history of criticism.

Tekamul > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2015 at 15:57

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...and, my buzz word bingo card is full.

Thanks!

ColoradoTaco > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2015 at 15:59

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Too many big words. The media led me to believe, as a man, I'm just a big dumb animal that only farts, drinks and needs my wife to tell me what to wear and do. Sorry.

ColoradoTaco > ColoradoTaco 01/06/2015 at 16:00

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See it goes both ways. It's the internet. No one cares if you're offended. Sorry I'm not sorry.

briannutter1 > JGrabowMSt 01/06/2015 at 16:03

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Sign me up for whatever she's selling!

Xyl0c41n3 > ColoradoTaco 01/06/2015 at 16:09

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If you want to insult yourself, suit yourself. I don't understand why you would, but ok.

ColoradoTaco > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2015 at 16:13

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Sarcasm is hard.

Xyl0c41n3 > ColoradoTaco 01/06/2015 at 16:13

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And also, this isn't about being offended. You're mistaken if you think it is. This is about trying to effect change in a community that is largely othering to half the population.

I find it interesting to see how many men have chimed in here to either tell me, basically, "get over it," or to bro-fist each other with stars and commiserating comments. Also note, you and another have resorted to either self deprecating comments or snide remarks aimed at me. Where in any of these comments have I treated any of y'all with similar disrespect?

Xyl0c41n3 > ColoradoTaco 01/06/2015 at 16:14

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Nope. Sarcasm is weak.

ColoradoTaco > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2015 at 16:24

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YOU chose to click it. YOU chose to type a comment in which you sound offended. All when YOU can choose to click things that interest you and not click those items that don't. You want to effect change and have no NSFW posts? Start bitching to the people that run Gawker because having seen this road road before, the ones that post NSFW posts on Oppo will continue to do so because they can. So yes, get over it and keep scrolling if you don't like the post.

Xyl0c41n3 > ColoradoTaco 01/06/2015 at 16:40

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Do you realize how backwards it is to put the onus of ignoring sexism on the women Opponauts who are on the receiving end of it?

"...because having seen this road road (sic) before, the ones that (sic) post NSFW posts on Oppo will continue to do so because they can."

Exactly. Oppo is a user moderated forum. As such, moderators have previously stated that users can and should call out shit, as long as it's done respectfully. Oppo also has a standing policy against sexism, among other things (like racism). "The ones that post NSFW posts..." will continue to do so as long as there is tacit approval to do so, both through lack of consistent moderation and lack of user voices speaking out against it. Hi, nice to meet you. I'm Xyl0. I'm an author here. I'm speaking out against it.

I Do It For Miatas, NC Owner > ColoradoTaco 01/06/2015 at 16:41

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ColoradoTaco > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2015 at 16:53

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So, do you complain about nudity in movies or do you sit there and stew then call up and rant to the director/actor/producer after watching the whole thing? Unless that's you in the video you're not on the receiving end of any exploitation or sexism. Honestly, she isn't either as she probably got paid to do it. I rarely ever see any nsfw posts here anymore. It used to be a 100 pic post a few times a day. Now, we have people complaining about a fucking bikini. Get over yourself and get over it. You're not some special little cupcake that we need to cater to.

Respond if you want but I'm done with this.

Xyl0c41n3 > ColoradoTaco 01/06/2015 at 17:02

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Your words speak volumes. Yes, actually, I do offer criticisms of the portrayal of women (and minorities) in pop culture such as movies. But that isn't complaining, it's critique. And no, I don't have to be the woman in that video for that video to be sexist, or to be the subject of sexism. That's not how it works. But I think this debate may have elevated your blood pressure slightly because you've become increasingly hostile and insulting, so I suppose it's a good thing you're finally walking away. I'll remind you I haven't remotely treated you in kind. Maybe you should examine that for a bit. Have a nice day, Quattro, sincerely.

yamahog > ColoradoTaco 01/06/2015 at 17:40

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Is anyone here saying that's ok and posting shit to that effect on a daily basis? No? Just checking.

yamahog > I Do It For Miatas, NC Owner 01/06/2015 at 17:52

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No, don't clap. Those are the laziest arguments in the book (it's a very old book too) and it's pretty tiresome to see the same ignorant crap over and over.

wantafuncar > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2015 at 18:42

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I'm an author here. I'm speaking out against it.

Without taking a position on the main issue, to me the real problem is that you aren't "speaking out against it," you're engaging in a petty comment war on a website.

If you want to speak out against it, take other action: author a post about it (as you reminded us, you are an author), contact leadership, attempt to start a movement, etc.... engaging in a comment war does nothing.

Edit - I meant that to go for both sides here. Just like she doesn't have to click, you don't have to comment.

Xyl0c41n3 > wantafuncar 01/06/2015 at 19:10

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Thank you for your comment, wantafuncar . (Seriously, no snark).

I'd like to address some of the things you've suggested. I actually have contacted Oppo leadership (mods) about this issue before. It's an ongoing conversation they've had many times before, one started long before I came to Oppo. Part of that conversation has included encouragement from mods to engage in civil conversation when we, the users, see problems appear. I'm taking their advice to heart and doing what they have encouraged multiple times in the past. While I, personally, have not (yet) authored a stand-alone post in regards to sexism on Oppo, other users and mods have, even as recently as this autumn.

You also said I should attempt to start a movement. What, exactly, do you think my measured comments in this thread have been? No movement moves by leaps and bounds, they all occur one step at a time. And like I've stated above and elsewhere in this post, my actions have been informed largely based on suggestions of appropriate action/discussion/response previously mentioned by mods in other iterations of this ongoing oppo-wide discussion.

Finally, one last comment. You called this a petty comment war. I've been polite and respectful to Quattro throughout this conversation. He can't exactly say the same. But he's not the only person who has responded with similar vitriol whenever I or other women speak up about sexism on Oppo. Aside from the snide pejoratives with which Quattro has addressed me today, I can distinctly recall another woman Oppo who was called "a cancer on Oppo" in another thread/post. So, who, again, has stooped to pettiness?

Justino6969 > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2015 at 21:58

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Disclaimer: This comment isn't directed to you, but to this whole conversation in general.

Sexism: Sexism or gender discrimination is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender.

This video is a woman in a bikini putting on tire chains. How is this sexist? It's an instructional video that attracts people who are attracted to women. No one is treating a man any better or paying a man any more money or anything. Something I don't understand is why human sexuality is always construed as sexism. Men like naked women. Women like naked men. Pictures and videos of naked women are not sexist. It's just appealing to a specific audience, just like stance appeals to a specific audience, and crocheting appeals to others.

Xyl0c41n3 > Justino6969 01/06/2015 at 22:12

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It's not directed at me yet you felt the need to leave a comment that ostensibly defines "sexism" (erroneously, by the way) to one of two women on this thread, and the most vocal one at that? It's not directed at me yet you've posed the question of "how is this sexist?" to one of only two commenters (women) on this thread who have asserted this is sexist?

And some of your examples of how none of this is sexist is because there's no glass ceiling involved in this post, or because stance and crocheting? (As an aside— I prefer knitting. And welding. Not at the same time, obviously).

Ok. Right. Have a nice night.

Justino6969 > Xyl0c41n3 01/06/2015 at 22:18

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I replied to the first comment in the thread. I saw people agreeing that this was sexist and disagreeing that this was sexist. I don't know who is a man or who is a woman in this thread. I merely voiced my opinion, just as you have.

https://www.bing.com/search?setmkt=…

It's not sexist because there's no discrimination going on. That's my opinion. What do you define as sexist that makes this post sexist? Please tell me how a woman is being treated worse than a man in this article.

JGrabowMSt > ColoradoTaco 01/06/2015 at 23:25

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Oddly enough, I have a set of brand new all-seasons, and since my car is in the shop getting other work, I got in touch with them and asked about whether I could really trust them in rather poor northeast winter weather compared to say a snow tire, and my shop essentially said all-seasons are crap in snow. My tires may be new, but the tread just isn't correct for snow.

All things considered, the snow tires will last more than one winter and are certainly cheaper than an accident.

But I have zero direct experience with chains other than being a school bus that had to break them out once that I remember.

That's about how effective I would be with chains.

DrJohannVegas > Justino6969 01/07/2015 at 00:08

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Justin, since you saw fit to post an internet search, I will assume you took the time to read it before you linked it. If you clicked on the first link (the Merriam-Webster one), you'll see that the second definition of sexism is:

"behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sex…

So, yea, I think this one applies. Thanks for the link!

DrJohannVegas > Tekamul 01/07/2015 at 00:14

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Congrats! Please collect your new fedora prize at the front desk.

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > ColoradoTaco 01/07/2015 at 00:16

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Hi, I'm DancesWithRotors, a fairly-longtime author here, and I've gotta stand with the FlowerGirl on this one. We, as a group, haven't been the best about being inclusive to women, or keeping the scantily-clad, appeal to the baser instincts posts out, and we can be better. We /are/ improving, yeah, but until it sinks in that we're driving away people who SHARE our interest in cars, the wailing and gnashing of teeth will continue.

The thing is, people see these NSFW posts and think, "I'm not sure I want to be part of a community that puts up with that," and leave. It's also one of the reasons I can't get on Oppo at work; namely that I don't want an NSFW post to be at the top of the page as my division chief wanders over to the desk.

So, let's recap... We're keeping longtime contributors away during the day, and we're alienating a large subset of potential Opponauts who don't like being treated as objects.

I've said my piece. G'day, sir.

Tekamul > DrJohannVegas 01/07/2015 at 06:58

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Point out the moment it was sexist.

1) A woman wore a bikini

2) Someone filmed a woman in a bikini

3) Someone watched the film of a woman in a bikini

4) Someone told people he whatched a woman in a bikini

5) Someone told that person something is sexist

ColoradoTaco > JGrabowMSt 01/07/2015 at 08:43

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Well don't tell my all seasons that I just traveled 500 miles across the mountains in the middle of Winter. I have Winter tires for the S4 but I haven't done the same for the Subaru as the car was brand new and doesn't make sense to replace them until they're toast. When they are I'll get a +1 set for Summer and put snows on the stock wheels.

ColoradoTaco > DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully 01/07/2015 at 08:46

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Don't want nsfw posts to be on your screen when you boss walks by? You probably shouldn't be on the web at work anyway...

JGrabowMSt > ColoradoTaco 01/07/2015 at 08:48

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I don't doubt the ability of all-seasons. For the past 5 winters, that's what I've had, and I never had trouble. The 5spd manual Neon really had very little trouble in winter weather. I remember beginning to lose control once and actually getting stuck twice. Both times I had less than 8/32 of tread. Outside of a handful of isolated cases, I've been problem free. With temperatures dropping significantly, and having a much larger and heavier car, and needing to commute farther in worse conditions it's just a simple matter of having the best tires I can. My all-seasons could probably do it without much trouble, but this is my first winter with a big, heavy RWD car. I'd rather not risk it.

DrJohannVegas > Tekamul 01/07/2015 at 16:55

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The aim of the video was to make a how-to video "more appealing" by leveraging sex, and dominant narratives about sex appeal. This cuts both ways. It's sexist because the absurdity (in the most clinical sense of the word) of the situation is based in part on the sexualized nature of it. It's notable because of the incongruity between the act (putting snow chains on a car) and the state of the actor (a woman in a bikini). That is what makes the video "work".

So, it's sexist towards women because it needlessly sexualizes the message, making the woman's appearance the object of the video, and the "how-to" part secondary, at worst merely window dressing. The other side is that the wink-and-nod nature of this whole enterprise is also perpetuating stereotypes about men as well. "This'll get clicks, dudes love ladies in bikinis!" is a sexist message as well. I'd argue that it's less offensive, because men are the subject, rather than the object of the sexualization, but it is also sexism. The whole thing plays on social roles.

In looking down the path of this conversation, let me say one more thing: individuals can be agents in their own objectification, and can do so for many reasons. (Getting paid to be in a video is one.) I have no personal philosophical problem with it on face, as expression of agency is at the core of my value system. But, that act can have externalities. Perpetuating stereotypes, here in the form of sexism, is one of those externalities. Does the complicity of the objectified person make it "not sexist"? I think not. Does that make that person wrong? I have a harder time answering that question.

Rather than getting defensive when a claim of this nature arises (and I should note that posting search results is the most chicken-shit passive-aggressive way of having a debate on the internet), I find that it's more productive to ask questions. For instance: "Why do you think this is sexist?" (Note the contrast with "Point out the moment it was sexist." and listing options.) Will you always agree with the other person's point? Probably not. Might you learn something? Hopefully.

Opponauts come in all forms. When someone shares something with the group which plays off of difference, and does so in a way which perpetuates stereotypes, that's not cool. But, what's worse is then attacking the Oppo who stands up and says "this is bullshit." Or, you know, perpetuate stereotypes.

TL;DR: 0) Someone decided to plan a "how-to" video which was really just a woman-in-a-bikini video.

6) A bunch of people decided to "explain" sexism to a person who probably already knows what it is.

Find those on your bingo card.