Whither Scion?

"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
01/05/2015 at 18:19 • Filed to: None

Watching Clarkson test the Toyota GT86 (again) and musing - here in US America, the very same car wears a Scion badge. It's an !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , whatever that is. So, what do you think? Would Toyota sell fewer cars if it was badged as a Toyota? Would !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! suffer under a Toyota badge? Why does Scion even exist?

What say you Oppo?

DISCUSSION (17)

Sn210 > Steve in Manhattan
01/05/2015 at 18:22

I bet they'd sell more with a toyota badge

TheHondaBro > Steve in Manhattan
01/05/2015 at 18:25

Scion is useless, in my opinion. The brand should just be scrapped and Toyota should sell them as Toyotas.

I'm sort of hoping Scion is Toyota's Merkur.

Rico > Steve in Manhattan
01/05/2015 at 18:28

This was a completely missed opportunity for Toyota to show the world they can make interesting, driver focused vehicles again. The running joke is Toyota only knows how to make beige and executed every person who worked on the Supra.

Michael Maguire > Sn210
01/05/2015 at 18:29

I completely agree with this! Toyota carries a really solid name for a lot of people. I wonder how many people have no clue what a scion is and won't look at their cars because of it...

Sn210 > Michael Maguire
01/05/2015 at 18:32

if toyota really wants to get rid of their association with beige, slapping a scion badge on one of their few interesting cars isn't going to help.

Dusty Ventures > Steve in Manhattan
01/05/2015 at 18:36

It's definitely time to murder Scion and re-absorb their cars into the Toyota fold.

Steve in Manhattan > Rico
01/05/2015 at 18:41

If they bring the Supra back, will it be the Scion Supra here in US America? That sounds stupid.

Rico > Michael Maguire
01/05/2015 at 18:43

Personally I would not buy a Scion anything, I just don't agree with what the brand stands for. If I had to get an FRS over a BRZ I would remove everything that said Scion and replace with Toyota badges, hell I would even wite-out the word Scion in the manual.

Rico > Steve in Manhattan
01/05/2015 at 18:45

Probably! Because Scion stands for "hip" and "cool" which translates to me as corny and douchey.

Steve in Manhattan > Steve in Manhattan
01/05/2015 at 18:48

I understand Lexus - in 1989 no one wanted to pay 40 grand for a Toyota. Well, no American. Same thing with the Phaeton. But the Scion range isn't expensive sedans or coupes - it's inexpensive.

JasonStern911 > Steve in Manhattan
01/06/2015 at 00:43

Agreed. Hyundai's top of the line models would be much better off not bringing back memories of 80's death traps powered by budget Mitsubishi motors.

Steve in Manhattan > JasonStern911
01/06/2015 at 00:51

That could be a breakthrough for them. The Genesis (twins?) should sell more than they do, so perhaps a different nameplate. If a Buick has better dynamics, and better features, than a Lexus or an Infiniti, it should sell. Hyundai isn't a luxury brand, however. That means upmarket is a hard climb.

And what about the reverse? Very few rich people wanted a Maybach. I think mostly hotels bought them, because that's where I see them here. Tart up an S-Class like a Maybach, and I'll pay good money for it with a Mercedes badge and the star on the hood. I don't need Maybach. Whatever that is.

JasonStern911 > Steve in Manhattan
01/06/2015 at 23:55

The luxury market is fickle. I'll never understand people paying a premium for something like a Jaguar that has been historically known for questionable reliability. Even under warranty, who wants to spend their time at the dealer's service repair shop?

But I'm not one to ask, as I have gotten so used to my 996 that nearly every vehicle I drive going around a corner at 20+ MPH feels like it has so much body roll that it could tip any second. And the concept of a computer-controlled air suspension scares me, as I know that no matter how badly I try, I would never be able to find a coil spring and strut combo that I feel comfortable with.

Plus I am fine with GM-tier interiors. Anyone staring at the side airbag cover instead of the road ahead while driving should have their license revoked. That said, I do respect a comfortable yet supportive seat.

A friend I met in Vegas sold his Mercedes to buy a Hyundai Equus. I was impressed. It definitely did not give off a Hyundai vibe. I was not impressed enough to justify $60k, but I'd say that for any car that is not a low production future classic that is likely to appreciate. With the right name for a new brand and a proper advertising campaign, I have no doubt that Hyundai could encroach on Cadillac and completely surpass Lincoln.

As for Lexus/Acura/Infiniti, that would depend on the build quality which remains to be seen long-term. It was only a decade ago that people fell in love with the Hyundai Tiburon, claiming it was the spiritual successor to the Toyota Celica, only to suffer so many build quality issues that every positive design feature Hyundai made improvements on was overlooked by the fact that nobody wants to spend $15k+ on a car to have to deal with multiple major repairs done under warranty.

Steve in Manhattan > JasonStern911
01/07/2015 at 00:11

Ford taught Jaguar how to build a wiring harness. At this point, they're as much of a crapshoot as pretty much any other marque. And I'd say Lexus has already proven itself long term. There are many tales of LS400s crossing the 300K mark with only regular maintenance. Guy called in to Car Talk once - 350K on LS400 and had never changed the plugs or wires. Wow.

JasonStern911 > Steve in Manhattan
01/07/2015 at 00:29

It may be model specific, but it's not a crap shoot. I looked into the Lincoln LS, which was just a budget Jaguar S-Type. Jaguar motor, Jaguar transmission, etc. A ton of shared components. And every review I could find was horrific due to bad design choices like plastic and rubber cooling components that become brittle and fail, but were unfortunately not designed in small components so that the failing pieces could be replaced as opposed to the entire unit.

As for the Lexus, I have no doubt that the owner hasn't changed the plugs in 350k miles. The mechanic and/or previous owners on the other hand... :)

But jokes aside, they're solid cars. I have to question that the motors can get 400k+ with scheduled maintenance, but the wear components - plugs, wires, belts, etc. - They are the same components used by other manufactures, and Toyota doesn't build them in-house. Toyota doesn't have a better spark plug or a better wire. They have solid engine designs, excellent manufacturing facilities, and a high level of both product and quality assurance.

Steve in Manhattan > JasonStern911
01/07/2015 at 00:32

Rented a Lincoln LS once, and I kinda liked it. Butt-cooler seats and lots of leather. But of course I had it for 4 days, not 4 years.

JasonStern911 > Steve in Manhattan
01/07/2015 at 00:46

It seemed like the perfect value car in the luxury class. Who owns a Lincoln? Someone else's Grandpa. Not yours, but someone you know. And that guy tells stories about Plymouths and Mercurys from when they had soul and weren't rebadged Chevy's and Ford's. Not that rebadging is wrong when done well. But if the Lincoln LS had the 4.6L modular motor, I'd likely own one. Instead, Ford took a struggling brand in Lincoln and put unreliable parts from another struggling brand in Jaguar and made a car that a premium demographic didn't want. I honestly think that one of the underrated reasons why people still respect a Cadillac but are shocked to hear that Lincoln still exists, if it even does, is because Cadillac parts have always been Chevy cheap. There's no slide of hand as far as what you're buying and who can service it. And that's a shame because the body of the LS has aged gracefully. And while, according to journalists, it never exhibited the "driver's experience" that an era appropriate E46 did, it posted a better skidpad and could have been a better car now if I could go to the junkyard and find all of the common parts I would need to fix it myself.