Project Car Hell: Saab 9-3 Aero Edition; Help Needed From Jalops

"Raphmoe" (raphmoe) 09/30/2014 at 15:53 • Filed to: project car hell, saab, saab aero, turbo, readers rides, project cars, dots

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Good afternoon Jalops, my Uncle needs your help with his Saab.

My Uncle (on my Mother's side) had a really nice Honda that was paid off, but was way, way too beige for him. Because of this, he traded it in and purchased an amazing Saab 9-3 Aero; with a proper Turbo setup (much boost). His Saab started displaying misfire issues about 2 months back. The coils on this car are notorious for failing, so he replaced all the coils and plugs and the issue disappeared ... temporarily. After the maintenance and before the issue re-appeared he flashed the ECU with a better, more eager boosting tune: JZW Stage 1 which was sooo much fun. He boosted around hard for a few weeks on it and the car was properly quick. He was planning on keeping the car forever and adding a DP/MP/Exhaust, intercooler, injectors and 20t soon and then, the issue came back worse. He replaced the coils with non el cheapo coils and the mid-to-high rpm misfire went away, but the idle and low-throttle rpm misfire remained. He tried everything to find it, but couldn't, so He took it to a shop. It only has 50k miles on it, so the problem had to be simple, right?

...wrong.

Cylinders 1-5 have and hold 170 psi.

Cylinder 6 has 70 psi and leaks down to 0.

A used 30k mile engine is $2k plus labor.

A rebuild will likely cost just as much.

It is leaking in to the crank case. Not a valve issue. :/

Air-fuel mix blowing into the crankcase is bad because the fuel will mix with the oil, thin it out and then wash off oil off all surfaces. I don't know about you, but a seized engine isn't as easy to fix as one with blown rings.

The Car is paid off. To get a car of equal comfort and enjoyment would cost as much as just getting the engine replaced.

I think engine is the way to go. :/ right? A new engine would be killer in that car.

Labor on an engine swap is ~$1250, and the engine itself is $2100. So for $3400 all in, he'll have an engine that has a 1-year warranty. Better than he has now?!

Cylinder #6 has broken ring lands. The damage was contained to the piston, so there is no cylinder damage or head damage. Completely fixable, right?

...yeah, about that.

The pistons are almost $600 each. On top of that, there are only 4 of them in the entire world. FOUR. All four are in Sweden, and they would take 3-weeks to be shipped here. Adding in the additional cost of the rings, bearings, thermostat and any other undiscovered costs, it's well above $4k to rebuild JUST cylinder 6.

OR he could spend ~$4k and replace the engine with a low-mileage example. Gee, that's a hard decision. So, today he is calling around and trying to bargain on the price for a low-mileage engine. He already found a 42k mile engine with a 1-year warranty, but also saw an 11k mile engine on Car-Part. We shall see. What do you think Jalops? Please help.

Meatcoma > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 16:07

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Labor will probably be another 500 if they have to swap items off of the old engine to the new. Additional costs cost additionally.

Raphmoe > Meatcoma 09/30/2014 at 16:08

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yea, verily.

Swapping engines is probably best, though. Right?

Kate's Dirty Sister > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 16:09

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That's a very Saab story

Har Har herr

Meatcoma > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 16:17

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Make sure he's not paying a 'locator service' to find him an engine.

Although he does know how easy or hard his engine has had it, and the fact it hasn't been in a flood or some other catastrophe. It's a risk either way.

Raphmoe > Kate's Dirty Sister 09/30/2014 at 16:22

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what should he do? we need help from oppo :(

swansong, rockin' the wagons > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 16:34

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He must be spikejnz on SaabCentral 'ey? I subscribed to his thread on SC , eager to see the outcome of the problem. Frankly, it has me a bit concerned since I'm a similar situation. Got a 9-3 Aero, bought JZW's stage 1 tune with the same group buy as your uncle. First few weeks on stock plugs and coils, ran great, with a very occasional stumble at high load/boost. Recently changed the plugs per JZW's recommendation, stumble is now more pronounced than before. I suspect coils, and will be changing them soon.

It just scares me a bit that he's got cylinder damage. Really hope that the tune didn't grenade the engine, and honestly this is the first possible issue I've seen from JZW's tunes. They seem to be VERY stout engines, capable of handling 400 hp/500 tq on stock internals.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 16:35

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bmw N20 swap. just as powerful and it sounds like a Diesel

Raphmoe > Kate's Dirty Sister 09/30/2014 at 16:41

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with a turbo?

Raphmoe > swansong, rockin' the wagons 09/30/2014 at 16:41

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My uncle doesn't know how to use the internet, that is why I am posting to oppo asking jalops for their help.

swansong, rockin' the wagons > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 16:50

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I take it he doesn't have any kind of aftermarket warranty on it? Is the factory warranty a possibility due to low mileage? I made sure to get one when I bought my Aero, mostly to due concerns over the XWD, but I believe I'd be covered if something like this happened to me.

Also, this engine is a version of GM's high feature engine . Saab handled the turbocharging so it may very likely have beefed up internals, necessitating bespoke pistons and other parts. Still, perhaps there are some GM parts that are identical and easier to find ( four in the existence? That's crazy!)

Either way, sounds like he'll probably have to bite the bullet on a new engine...

TotallyThatStupid > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 16:59

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What about aftermarket pistons (if he wants to go the rebuild route)?

Maybe call JE Pistons ?

Kate's Dirty Sister > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 17:04

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there's already one but he could add a few others, even an electric SC, I heard these things are awesome.

Raphmoe > TotallyThatStupid 09/30/2014 at 17:22

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That could be a good option, I will let him know.

Raphmoe > swansong, rockin' the wagons 09/30/2014 at 17:23

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no, he has no warranty. He is a real true jalop who likes to do work on the cars himself; besides the cost, he could easier rebuild the engine himself I think.

Cebu > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 17:40

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LS-1 swap.

LS-1 swap ALL THE THINGS.

crowmolly > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 17:53

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For what it's worth, JE will build custom pistons to his specifications. I've had it done before. But their lead time might not be workable for his schedule. You can also try Diamond.

If that doesn't work then I think a low mile used engine might be his best bet.

Does he plan on running the tune again in the future? If so, does he run a wideband A/F gauge? Reason I ask is because a friend of mine has a 9-3 Aero that had a basic mail order Hirsch tune (not sure which one) and even though it was supposed to be "safe" the A/F numbers on the dyno were way too dangerous and he ended up pulling the tune back out. Granted "aftermarket tune" can mean anything, but just something to think about I guess. I'd hate to see the replacement engine get damaged as well.

Raphmoe > Cebu 09/30/2014 at 17:55

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yessssssss

Nibbles > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 18:35

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JE makes Saab pistons. Go with JE

I'm going with JE for my Saab too

Nibbles > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 18:36

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Where are you located? I can ask my Saab club (president owns a Saab shop) if anyone's got parts laying around

Raphmoe > Nibbles 09/30/2014 at 21:12

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do you have a link to these pistons? thanks for the help

Raphmoe > Meatcoma 09/30/2014 at 22:33

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how much is a locator service fee usually? his engine has been well maintained; regular oil changes and always revving to redline through the gears and achieving maximum boost to let the engine breathe properly.

Nibbles > Raphmoe 09/30/2014 at 23:04

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like TTS said above, they do custom jobs. Call em up (link in TTS's post) and see if they have any profiles on hand. They may already have piston profiles from a different order, or given some basic specs they can spin up new sets easily. They are the number one piston producer when it comes to classic Saabs, I can only imagine they're still as good with newer ones.

Meatcoma > Raphmoe 10/01/2014 at 08:12

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If he's looking up used engines online there is like a 50/50 chance he's using a locator service. Some of those sites advertising used engines don't even have the engine, like 95% of their site leads you to believe they do, but they don't. If he's buying a rebuilt one he should be ok. Just make sure he looks over the site thoroughly. Hell, I'd even call them to see if they have the engine there on their property rather than just locating one in BFE.

Raphmoe > Meatcoma 10/01/2014 at 08:22

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oh wow that is really good to know it sounds like some shady people deal with "used engines".

he is located in San Francisco and since i am living in Manhattan we only talk on the phone once in a while and am trying to help him out as a fellow jalop.

Meatcoma > Raphmoe 10/01/2014 at 08:34

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I recently swapped in a used engine and ended up buying it off ebay from a scrapyard because I knew what kind of shape it would be in when I got it and what I would have to do. Those sites advertising 1 yr- 5yr warrantees normally are locators, require you to swap out a lot of stuff for the warranty and they usually do not cover anything attached to the engine, only the internals. Make sure he reads the fine print.

Raphmoe > Meatcoma 10/01/2014 at 08:40

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do you know off hand which sites are more so "locators" as opposed to suppliers?

What was your build; did you have a write up on it anywhere?

Meatcoma > Raphmoe 10/01/2014 at 08:43

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It was just a 2.5l 4cyl ford engine. Nah it was pretty much unplug, unbolt, pull out, swap external parts(coils, plugs, wires, sensors), change timing belt, thermostat, flush/drain fluids left over in engine and then drop it in, connect it all and it worked without giving me any problems.

Meatcoma > Raphmoe 10/01/2014 at 08:52

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There are more, but autopartsfair.com is a locator. There are a ton of links that direct you to the same sites. If you get to the same site from multiple links, it is probably a locator service. Like:

http://www.theautochannel.com/ directs you to autopartsfair

http://www.autoguide.net/ directs you to autopartsfair

Those sites are locators, They are normally buying an engine for about half what you pay and keeping the other half. Getting them to warranty the engine (from what I've read in reviews etc.) is normally a pita. Do your research.

I paid about half what a locator service wanted for an engine 575 with shipping. Everywhere else wanted right at 1k. Not a bad haul for just setting it up. 425 just for getting with the seller and having it shipped to the buyer? I could do that all day. 2 or 3 of those a day is pretty lucrative.