Longitudinal vs Transverse Engine Mounting

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 09/28/2014 at 12:55 • Filed to: Engine placement

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What are the pros and cons of each? Which looks best? Which is the more functional of the two? I think that longitudinal looks better and functions better over it's counterpart; what say you Oppo?

Examples of longitudinal:

Examples of transverse:

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 12:59

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I'm pretty sure longitudinal is better in every way.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro 09/28/2014 at 13:01

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Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 09/28/2014 at 13:01

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except production costs

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 09/28/2014 at 13:03

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SHHHH DON'T SAY THAT, then manufacturers will start catching on and make FWD cars!

....shit

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 09/28/2014 at 13:06

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haha exactly

They love FWD using transverse because no drive shaft and diff is part of the transmission. It's all very space efficient and tidy.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari 09/28/2014 at 13:07

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Rusto shhh! No one needs to know the minor cost difference..

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:09

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(They already know. That's why everything is FWD transverse I4s!)

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 09/28/2014 at 13:11

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*cries*

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari 09/28/2014 at 13:12

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Damn them! There's only one solution to this..

Vracktal > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:13

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Interestingly, transversely mounted engines are increasingly being used in small hatchbacks, but in the rear of the car and powering the rear wheels. I can dig it.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:14

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Transverse is mostly just for packaging in front wheel drive and mid rear applications.

BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:14

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But Transverse V16!

Sweet Trav > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:16

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Only tend to like transverse engines when mounted behind the drivers seat.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 09/28/2014 at 13:17

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Like the Fiero! I almost forgot about it..

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. 09/28/2014 at 13:17

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Okay that's kinda badass; I wanna see more of whatever that is.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 09/28/2014 at 13:18

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I'm guessing your engine is transverse

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Sweet Trav 09/28/2014 at 13:18

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That's the only time I'll like them.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vracktal 09/28/2014 at 13:18

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Eh, fair enough I suppose?

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:19

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what?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:21

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It depends on what you're trying to accomplish, if you need to send the power rearward, mount the engine so that the output is pointed that way. If you need to send the power straight down, it doesn't make sense to point it to the back.

BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:21

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Cizeta-Moroder V16T. Guess what the T stands for. It's two Lamborghini V8s attached in the middle, designed by the same guy who designed the Countach, Miura, and the Lancia Stratos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cizeta-Mo…

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari 09/28/2014 at 13:26

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DRIVING SIDEWAYS!!!

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:27

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Transverse mounted straight engines are easier to maintain, than longitudinally mounted. You don't need to lean over as much. Also my father's 3 series is a pain in the butt to replace spark plugs. The cabin air filter blocks cyl #6, #5 is blocked by the strut bar, and the first 3 are easier to access, but all need an extension to reach the plugs, since they're deep in the head.

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:28

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Hahahaha

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/28/2014 at 13:34

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I learned something new right now. :)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. 09/28/2014 at 13:35

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Sex.

TwoFortified > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:39

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Transverse = WWD = Honda.

No.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TwoFortified 09/28/2014 at 13:44

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I don't understand. :-/

davedave1111 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/28/2014 at 13:50

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So why no vertically mounted engines?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy 09/28/2014 at 13:51

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No, that is not completely true. Changing belts, pulleys, alternators, and anything else is a total nightmare when the suspension, wheels, frame rails, and fenders are in the way. And if you have a V shaped engine, half of your spark plugs are against the firewall.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > davedave1111 09/28/2014 at 13:52

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Oil starvation.

PS9 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:54

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World War Drive = The ignition starts global warfare.

You: Well, I'm going to work now. *Gets in WWD car*
Everyone else: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:57

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fun piece of trivia: the Ferrari 308 used a transverse engine layout. But the 288 GTO used a longitudinal layout despite being based off the 308 chassis.

JR1 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 13:57

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When the first ever road legal super car has a transverse engine I would say transverse engines are just as wonderful as longitudinal.

davedave1111 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/28/2014 at 13:57

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If you just turn an ordinary engine round, yes. But one designed to work that way?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari 09/28/2014 at 13:58

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Wonder why they switched?

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/28/2014 at 14:01

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I'm aware of that, but for the average driveway mechanic, a transverse inline 4 is easier to do work on, not everyone wants to do a belt change.

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 14:01

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maybe because it was necessary to handle the extra power

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > davedave1111 09/28/2014 at 14:01

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You could do it with a boxer twin, but the there is the issue of making a transmission work.

Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 14:03

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Transverse, its what dougs fieroarri uses. therefore longitudinal is better.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy 09/28/2014 at 14:04

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Serpentine belts are something that every one should be able to do, especially with the 100,000 mile spark plugs now.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man 09/28/2014 at 14:05

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Logical :)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari 09/28/2014 at 14:06

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I just realized something else...

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > JR1 09/28/2014 at 14:06

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This I cannot argue.

Axial > Manuél Ferrari 09/28/2014 at 14:07

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Transverse+FWD is only cheaper because economies of scale make it so. Longitudinal and RWD is mechanically simpler, and thus cheaper if you take economies of scale out of the equation.

FWD is popular mostly because it saves space inside the cabin, allowing them to advertise "MOAR LEGROOM!"

davedave1111 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/28/2014 at 14:08

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Why only a boxer twin? Not following your line of thought there.

JR1 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 14:11

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Any argument that could be made would be invalid.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > davedave1111 09/28/2014 at 14:16

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A V-Twin would also work, that's what they use in Riding Mowers. But you want something that's not going to be tall, otherwise oil won't be able to lubricate the crank.

davedave1111 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/28/2014 at 14:20

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"otherwise oil won't be able to lubricate the crank"

Why not? Obviously not if you just turn a standard engine on end, but is there any reason it's impossible to design a lubrication system for the purpose?

I was wondering if it's not to do with packaging, rather than technical limitations. It would require a higher bonnet line for longer (taller) engines, but that's something that's become mandatory recently for safety reasons.

Spoon II > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 14:25

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It's mostly a packaging issue I believe, to save space and make fwd configurations (I could be mistaken)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 14:28

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Depends entirely on the application. For FWD you'd want transverse as with a longitudinal engine you either have a lot of weight sitting way over the front of the front axle (most Audis), or you have to put the engine facing the other way which creates a lot of length in the chassis.

For RWD the only real option is longitudinal. I can't think of a single car that turns the drive through 90 degrees for a RWD car.

For a mid-engined car it's really about packaging. Longitudinal creates a lot more length in the car (again) which is fine for a big car like an Aventador, but in a dinky little X1/9 would kill the proportions and lengthen the wheelbase so it's less eager and toss able in the corners. Not sure on that one, but leaning towards transverse.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > davedave1111 09/28/2014 at 14:34

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You need to have oil in the crank for starting and running, you could run a dry sump set-up, but it might need to prime the motor before it runs. Because gravity would pull all of the oil from the top and just pool up in the bottom. So you want to keep it as flat as possible, not to mention the car's COG.

A radial motor would be too large, unless you make a small radial. A single rotor motor would work, but good luck getting any useable power from it.

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 09/28/2014 at 14:47

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Transverse as fuck yo

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Spoon II 09/28/2014 at 14:49

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Sounds about right.

Baeromez > Brian Silvestro 09/28/2014 at 14:53

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All but one

Brian Silvestro > Baeromez 09/28/2014 at 14:55

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VALID POINT

davedave1111 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/28/2014 at 14:57

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Yeah, I was thinking dry sump, or something similar. I wonder if there are problems lubricating the cylinders, but then radials have had non-vertical cylinders.

When you said radial, did you mean Wankel rotary? Or were you actually thinking of a proper radial with a vertical crankshaft? That would be an oddity :)

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > davedave1111 09/28/2014 at 15:03

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Actually a radial

Manuél Ferrari > Axial 09/28/2014 at 15:34

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Doesn't it also help with CAFE a little? Isn't FWD + transverse efficient because no driveline loss?

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 15:35

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the meaning of life?

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 09/28/2014 at 15:39

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can I haz transverse ferrari 308 with supercharger please?

Poor man's 288 GTO

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/28/2014 at 15:52

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Volvo maintains that transverse is better for safety purposes, because of course they do. The theory is that when the engine is longitudinally mounted, in the event of a front end collision, that engine is pretty quickly coming back towards the fire wall and passenger compartment. With a transverse mounted engine, it'll stay away from the fire wall better than a longitudinally mounted engine when moved the same distance. I tend to believe Volvo on that, since they promote themselves as a safety company first and a car company second.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/28/2014 at 16:41

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The Toronado engineers would disagree with you.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee 09/28/2014 at 16:44

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A bad idea is still a bad idea.

Axial > Manuél Ferrari 09/28/2014 at 16:51

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There is always drive-line loss, regardless of packaging. You don't have to flip your direction of rotation by 90 degrees once you get to the wheels, so I suppose it is a little more efficient.

Mike > TwoFortified 09/28/2014 at 18:10

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Honda is bad...how? Even my lowly Civic Si is a nice little car.

TwoFortified > Mike 09/29/2014 at 18:07

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I'm a self-proclaimed Make-ist. FWD is terrible. Get off my lawn.

Mike > TwoFortified 09/29/2014 at 21:58

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Eh, I'm not an FWD fan by any means. But really, if I could just get a RWD Civic Si (or even AWD) I'd be quite happy with it. That's my only real gripe with the car.

TwoFortified > Mike 09/30/2014 at 16:04

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Mine too, and, for me, it's such a huge gripe that it's an absolute dealbreaker. I've been decrying FWD for as long as I knew what it was, but more and more cars seem to be headed to the FWD (which is lame), transverse engine (which are significantly harder to work on IMO) cars. I blame Honda, and their massive success in the mid-late 80s.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 21:11

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Did you die?

I haven't seen you on Oppo for a whole day

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 21:17

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Yes

jk just been classic car clubbing

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 21:19

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Nice. This is a valid reason!

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 21:23

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there was an F40 here, left today

neat

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 21:25

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Best integrated rear wing evah

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 21:26

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iz achtualy racecar

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 21:27

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yes

oh the old days

actual racecars sold for the road

now the government would never allow it

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 21:29

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The interior was just as beautiful as I imagined it would be (no I didn't get to sit in it)

Dat carbon tub doe

need

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 21:35

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This is one of the only turbo charged cars in the world that's turbo charged for the right reason

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 21:35

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THIS IS WHY I LIKE THE NOBLE SO MUCH

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 21:38

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I swear to god if I had the money I would buy an F40 right fucking now

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 21:49

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Same bro, same. I think they're hovering at $2M now.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 21:52

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That one I saw maybe 3-4 months ago had like no miles on it and it was $1.5M

Prices are going up daily!

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 21:53

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THOSE cars are investment cars. Hold for 10 years and you'll make millions

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 21:57

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This is why the rich get richer! It's SO easy if you have the money to start out with. Everyone knows which cars will go up the most. But raising the monies is so hard...

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 22:04

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pls gib 10 million dolars thnx

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 22:07

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*reaches into petty cash drawer*

*fedex's brian box full of cash*

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 22:17

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But it only has like 5 dollars and an I. O. U. note!

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 22:22

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"You might want to hold on to that one, it's for a Lamborghini"

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 22:23

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Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 22:27

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Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 22:29

0

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 22:31

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Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 12/23/2014 at 22:34

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00007 > JR1 02/28/2016 at 23:59

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actually transverse is better for power transfer because there is no 45 degree change in power direction . with transverse set up everything is spinning in the same direction

JR1 > 00007 02/29/2016 at 08:28

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Good point!

LPrage > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/20/2016 at 13:06

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One big drawback for the transverse mount engines which sit in the front that the left and the right drive axles have different lengths. This creates the effect known as torque steer. In high power applications this is a big no-no as the torque steer would try to steer the car to the side of the longer axle upon acceleration :)