Dear mods

"The Transporter" (transporter) 09/21/2014 at 19:46 • Filed to: None

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I understand that you have a very difficult task, especially with all that's been going on elsewhere in the Gawkerverse. I understand that you have very strict rules on shit stirring to keep Oppo from de-evolving into a "I hate every Gawker blog that isn't Oppo" blog, but I must question the wisdom of silencing any and all discussion about what is going on lest it turn into shit stirring. Doing such things can actually do more harm than good. As an example, I had the link to the real Kotaku article proving that the image was faked, but now I can't post it because that discussion has passed into the Either.

I don't want Oppo to turn into a hate fest either, but if we can't even discuss basic facts about what is going on, even to dispel falsehoods, then what's the point of carrying on?

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > The Transporter 09/21/2014 at 19:52

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Yeah, this just makes me want to post those hypocrisy call outs of Jezebel you see on Reddit all the time. There is nothing wrong in questioning something you see, especially on another gawker-shpere website. The tread was full, at least from what I could see, of jokes and a few comments showing the actual article. There is nothing wrong or against the rules about that.

YSI-what can brown do for you > The Transporter 09/21/2014 at 20:06

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keep Oppo from de-evolving into a "I hate every Gawker blog that isn't Oppo" blog

That is a very good description of me. Lololol

Dusty Ventures > The Transporter 09/21/2014 at 20:06

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The post about the Kotaku article was deleted by the original poster, not by a mod. I did suggest to him that he consider removing it, but this is because the comments suggested people were looking at the image and immediately responding with outrage without reading further into the post (where OP's updates verified it as a fake) or reading the comments that contained the actual story and explanation. In other words, the OP and commenters such as yourself were doing good work to clarify the situation, but too many people were commenting without seeing that work. THAT is why I suggested removing it. For the record I agree with the importance of maintaining historical accuracy, and if the article were real I too would have raised an outraged eyebrow.

The Transporter > Dusty Ventures 09/21/2014 at 20:11

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But removing it was the wrong answer. All we had was an empty hole where a post used to be with no explanation. Unanswered questions lead to rampant speculation. A simple edit saying that it had been proven to be fake would have been enough.

area man > Dusty Ventures 09/21/2014 at 20:11

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What the hell happened today? I've been out and it seems some shit has gone down...

djmt1 > area man 09/21/2014 at 20:14

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This was posted asking whether it was legit.

Many expressed outrage immediately.

Turns out it was fake.

Taken down by the original author on advisement.

Now questions over censorship.

area man > djmt1 09/21/2014 at 20:16

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so, silliness

Crocket Bernet > area man 09/21/2014 at 20:18

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Ya what the fuck, I go into the hot tub then take a shower and all of a sudden all hell has broken loose.

bob and john > The Transporter 09/21/2014 at 20:29

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I was the one that wrote and deleted it.

Dusty ventures pretty much summed it up. it was getting a bit....intense. So I took it down.

And in doing so, I appear to may/may not have triggered a storm. My bad. I'm expecting a LOT of flak for this.

Dusty Ventures > The Transporter 09/21/2014 at 20:31

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An edit with a different title and the removal of the image, perhaps. The problem was people saw the image on the main Oppo page, without any of the "yeah it's bogus" updates or comments, and came in fully charged with outrage, commenting without verifying. And frankly there were quite a few of these comments popping up. Again, I left the decision on whether to delete or not with the OP, I didn't say he had to, I only suggested the consideration based on the comments that were being posted.

PatBateman > The Transporter 09/21/2014 at 20:31

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What we aren't:

I'd prefer we stick to discussions about cars and other light-hearted topics rather than discuss politics, how whatever blog/sub blog is right/wrong, and kicking up dust where none is deserved. The mods help facilitate that.

The Transporter > Dusty Ventures 09/21/2014 at 20:36

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We can chalk this whole situation up to lessons learned, but tensions are very high around here and elsewhere concerning Things and Stuff and doing the wrong thing can be like dropping a lighted match on to a pile of oily rags.

Dusty Ventures > The Transporter 09/21/2014 at 20:43

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The high tensions were why I suggested Peter consider removing it in the first place. Like he said, the comments were getting intense, even after the correct information about it being a false article was added into his post. I decided to choose leaving the hole that would stand out to those who already saw the post over leaving some version of it that might continue to bring outraged comments from those who hadn't discovered it yet. Maybe I made the right call, maybe I didn't. I will certainly consider this discussion in the future when similar issues arise.

Also, just to add in, at the time I was at work, trying to handle the situation via my Phone. This may have influenced my decision somewhat. Getting "ever vigilant Oppo mod" to integrate with the rest of life is a tough juggling act to manage sometimes.

The Transporter > PatBateman 09/21/2014 at 20:44

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Like I said, I don't think we should be starting any ridiculous war of words with any other part of the Gawkerverse, but there are things that are going on elsewhere that are causing a lot of tension and sometimes it feels good to vent and commiserate with other people. We're a fairly levelheaded bunch around here and some off topic things can be discussed here that can't be discussed elsewhere without crap boiling out of control.

DasWauto > The Transporter 09/21/2014 at 20:49

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This discussion is a valid one, subjects such as these should be discussed freely. The problem is that anytime the topic of other Gawker blogs/articles comes up (admittedly Jezebel is often the issue) the comments always turn into a pile of pointless hate on a blog/article that simply doesn't appeal to the majority of people who frequent Jalopnik/Oppo. This is simply not productive.

Gawker's other sites cater to audiences with different perspectives, interests and opinions than ours; why it is that these must be derided on when they don't align with our views, I don't know.

If such discussions could be held in a civil manner instead turning into hating on the blog of choice they wouldn't be a problem. As it is though such devolution is inevitable and therefor simply not worth having, counterproductive, even, as it alienates those on Oppo to whom such articles/blogs do appeal.

If we want Oppo to be open and inclusive to all then, unfortunately, the best course of action seems to be to discourage these subjects in the first place.

That's the reasoning behind the rule that exists on this subject.

Thoughts?

DasWauto > DasWauto 09/21/2014 at 20:49

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Oh and annoyingly, if such discussions were tolerated their presence/supporting comments would give off the vibe of acceptance and those posts and the alienation would proliferate. Again, counterproductive.

yamahog > Dusty Ventures 09/21/2014 at 20:51

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In the meantime, this shit is still going on:

DasWauto > yamahog 09/21/2014 at 21:00

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Dismiss and ignore him. If he continues to harass you (without you replying), let a mod know.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > yamahog 09/21/2014 at 21:02

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"Wretched feminist," because wanting gender equality is a horrible, horrible trait to have.

Duh.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > DasWauto 09/21/2014 at 21:02

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But I still don't want to discourage them in the first place. That defeats the purpose of our beautiful blog.

The Transporter > DasWauto 09/21/2014 at 21:03

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I understand what is trying to be done, but whenever questions are raised more discussion, not less, is needed. Nature abhors a vacuum and in the absence of actual information, speculation will rush in to fill the void.

What this whole situation proved is that there are some things brewing underneath the surface that are going to get discussed no matter how hard some people might not want this to happen. The only thing that needs to be decided is do we have this discussion in a controlled environment while most people are still relatively calm or do we have it with an emotional shit fit where everybody gets banned?

DasWauto > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 09/21/2014 at 21:05

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Nor do I but with the direction such discussions always take, what other choice do we have? Police and pick out bad apples every time they come up?

Quite frankly, ain't nobody got time fo' dat.

Dusty Ventures > yamahog 09/21/2014 at 21:42

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Noted. Hopefully sorted

DasWauto > The Transporter 09/21/2014 at 21:44

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I would love to be able to trust everyone to be able to have such discussion in a reasonable manner but is that realistically possible? Doubt here is well founded.

We can encourage calm discussion but can we keep people from jumping to extremes and getting themselves but-hurt in the process? Suggestions welcome.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > DasWauto 09/21/2014 at 21:48

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Ideally, that should be our direction

DasWauto > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 09/21/2014 at 22:35

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I agree. We shouldn't shy away from and hide these discussions. Can we encourage people to police the discussions in their own posts? There will always be those who must skew to extreme end of opinions/discussions, what happens when they chime in or make their own posts about these things? I don't like double standards so they too should be able to have their opinions but shouldn't go around badgering those who disagree.

Sweet Trav > yamahog 09/22/2014 at 00:11

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Sorry for this, I tried bringing attention to this guy earlier, don't think a mod was on.

yamahog > Sweet Trav 09/22/2014 at 00:26

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No worries, I think it's been handled.

Sweet Trav > yamahog 09/22/2014 at 00:28

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Not that you need looking our for or anything

yamahog > Sweet Trav 09/22/2014 at 00:38

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:)

Not a fun night over such a petty thing. And unrelated, another woman asked me about joining oppo and I told her my feeling was to wait a bit :/

Sweet Trav > yamahog 09/22/2014 at 00:49

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It's shit like that which sends me into a realm of pissed off which can normally only happen when I am literally kicked in the balls.

It bothers me so much that oppo ISNT a safe place for all to be welcomed in. I respect and appreciate your strength through all this, seriously.

Unfortunately some women may not be as willing to jump into this melee, I see it as everyone's job to keep oppo friendly. Fortunately you're a beacon of femininity and badassitude and hopefully your actions inspire more women, If they love cars to join in and speak up.

pauljones > yamahog 09/23/2014 at 08:58

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Hm. I'm just seeing this for the first time. I'm not usually around here on weekends, so I naturally miss a fair bit. I'll be keeping an eye on that particular commenter. It's not the first time there have been issues with his responses. Please let us know if he continues to harass you.

yamahog > pauljones 09/23/2014 at 08:59

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No worries, I think he's been booted, for that among other things.

twochevrons > yamahog 09/23/2014 at 21:31

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So, if it wasn't clear from the swarm of recommendations that I've made on your posts, I just wanted to join in with Travis on lending support, to you, and the cause of making Oppositelock a welcoming space for all.

The latent sexism and boys' club attitudes that have plagued the community lately, are, frankly, a fucking disgrace, and have had me pretty close to ragequitting on a number of occasions. Honestly, I don't think it's just women that they need to be worried about scaring off. As a guy with relatively healthy attitudes towards women and gender issues, I find the whole thing very off-putting, too. In addition to those directly victimised, I'm rather concerned about the younger and more impressionable members of the community, who, when they get quite rightly told to check themselves regarding issues of relationships and the like, end up getting 'reassured' that only the evil feminists think that, and that their juvenile, entitled attitudes are just fine. It happened to me in my teens, and it took an embarrassing amount of work by some wonderful and dedicated friends (one of whom later agreed to marry me!) to snap me out of it.

I have nothing but admiration for your ability to roll with the punches and come out swinging – you're saying the exact things that I would, if the blinding rage didn't prevent me from stringing together a coherent sentence. It truly is a beacon of hope in the darkness.

Keep fighting the good fight. But I wish that you didn't have to.

twochevrons > Sweet Trav 09/23/2014 at 21:39

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Just thought I'd say, I'm completely in the same boat as you here. I just wrote a long reply to Yamahog on the topic. TL;DR: I'm concerned, and think that the situation as of now is a disgrace. But I'm also not terribly good at responding to the internet tough guys on here, so I leave it to those more talented and level-headed than I. Kudos to you for being one of them.

Sweet Trav > twochevrons 09/23/2014 at 21:50

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Cars are cars man. They're inanimate objects. They have personalities, quirks, faults, but not genders. They should be here for anyone to enjoy, period. A community committed to cars should have the same traits: a personality, quirks and even faults, but should be inclusive of all genders, races, income levels, sexual orientations and opinions on the LS V8.

I don't want someone to be afraid of following their passion, or wanting to learn about something because the environment isn't friendly. We talk about saving the manuals and saving this hobby... if we aren't completely inclusive... aren't we asking this hobby to die?

twochevrons > Sweet Trav 09/23/2014 at 22:00

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Preach it.

I know plenty of people who are interested in cars, but put off by the attitudes of other 'enthusiasts.' I'm one of them, from time to time.

The car club that I most enjoyed being a member of was a Citroën owners' club. It had the most diverse, welcoming, and downright fun, community that I have ever known, and made a point of inclusivity. It was the only car club that I've known where nobody batted an eyelid at an out gay couple showing their wonderful DS, or a young woman with just a basic econobox. They were all enthusiasts, and they were all welcome.

Sweet Trav > twochevrons 09/23/2014 at 22:26

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Listen, I have some VERY polarizing opinions about cars. I am one to play the devils advocate when it comes to cars. I write a column called "Why your car sucks" for gods-sake. I believe at laughing yourself and being self aware. Some day I intend on writing a column called "Why MY car Sucks."

But let me tell you, if someone is passionate about their 1999 Hyundai Accent GL. That's fucking great. That means that against all odds, that person has found something to love about a car that is only a step above a Maytag Dishwasher. Its not even a "good" car, imagine what they could experience behind the wheel of a '60 Chevy Impala, or a '73 Pantera, god forbid even a Ferrari. It's our job as gearheads, petrolheads and car people to stoke that fire.

I have had the immense privilege of having some great mentors in my life, specifically dealing with cars, they all have their opinions, some as polarizing as my own, but they all appreciated my love for all things with four wheels and an engine, from the pedestrian to the exotic and they were all happy that I give a damn about car s , sure they challenged my opinions of the cars I loved, but there was always an appreciation for that passion. From what I have gathered, that is the essence of Opposite Lock.

I'm not saying it should be all horseshoes and rainbows. I hope we debate and argue bitterly over the merits of overhead camshafts vs cam in block and the benefits of roots vs centrifugal blowers. But let's check all that other shit at the door and focus on what brought us here in the first place: an unstoppable love for the automobile.