Updates about the 2016 MX-5 Miata disappoints and gives hope simultaneously

"SlickMcRick" (slickmcrick) 09/16/2014 at 17:04 • Filed to: None

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We here love the new Miata for many reasons. It represents the purity of driving and it's finest point. We can also admit that the NC at times felt it lost its way with it's size and weight.

In comes the ND that rectifies those two complaints and takes us back to basics. Though going back in HP I'm sure was not on many peoples check list. Check out !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

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Maximum_Odyssey > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:12

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I still think they're nuts and I still think these rumors might be completely false for North America. I just can't see 130hp selling a car when the FR-S/BRZ make 200hp and anything else that is a "sports" car is pushing 300hp minimum. Weight/HP ratio be damned, 130hp will get them laughed off the continent.

PS9 > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:12

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130 is not really acceptable for what will likely be a $25-30k bracket sports car. Even a $20k stripper that's too low. I'm still hoping that this is the base motor for the international market, and not the NA one, but these reports keep coming out, and MT lends it a lot of credibility.

Mazda could have just told everyone the deal during the reveal, but I feel like they wouldn't have held back the info if it wasn't going to be controversial.

Boxer_4 > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:14

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* Edit* I just read further in the linked article. MT claims that a 2.0L will follow in a year or so. So basically, there is no change from the NB and NC, except for the fact that we will probably see the base engine in the US this time around.

The NC in Europe (and probably Japan) had a 1.8L engine standard, which produced 126 hp. We never got that engine in the US market, only the upgraded 2.0L engine with 167 hp. I wouldn't be surprised if there are two engine choices again. Whether or not we get the lower spec engine as the base model is a different story.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:14

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Dat curb weight. Now if only Honda could remember how to make a hatchback that weighs that little.

Dr_Watson > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:16

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I still don't see where people say the NC was big... It's 4 square inches bigger than 1989. For adding 20 years of safety equipment to the car while keeping it the same height and only gaining 2 inches of width and 2 inches if length is pretty good IMO.

crowmolly > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:18

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Anything less than 200hp is a joke IMO. Not enough given today's hp wars. Doesn't need to be 700+ like the Hellcat but below 200 is too low.

PS9 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 09/16/2014 at 17:22

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Today's Honda would make a 2000lb hatch and put 750lbs of batteries and electric motors somewhere in it.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:22

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Yeah I don't see the 2.0 being delayed by a year.

SlickMcRick > PS9 09/16/2014 at 17:22

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I was thinking exactly the same. There is so much more power to be had for decent cars in that range. And MPGs really?? It weighs a shade over 2200lbs. You can drop a V10 in there and it'd still be relatively efficient.

mcseanerson > PS9 09/16/2014 at 17:23

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MotorTrend, credible source.....

Textured Soy Protein > PS9 09/16/2014 at 17:23

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Both the NB and NC had a base model engine that wasn't sold in the US. Also the NA 1.6 continued to be sold outside the US after the NA 1.8 came out. So there's definitely a track record of multiple engine options with only the big one coming to the US.

SlickMcRick > Boxer_4 09/16/2014 at 17:24

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Well if they decide to use this engine for a base model what do you think the starting price should be? I'm thinking $20k

GhostZ > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:25

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And one phrase, like a ghost, sends chills down the spines of Mazda's employees:

"...BRZ Convertible... "

SlickMcRick > Maximum_Odyssey 09/16/2014 at 17:26

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Have to agree with you on that. Every family compact has more power and now so does pretty much each subcompact. Getting whooped by a Fit in drag race is embarrassing plain and simple.

Keith Moon > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:27

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I have said this before, Miata still has a base 126 BHP engine. That engine is not an option in the North American market. The 130 BHP base engine is the replacement for the current base engine, so it will most likely not be offered in the North American market. Even if it is, the 2 liter engine will have much more power than 130. So, this isn't disappointing news. 130 > 126.

SlickMcRick > Dr_Watson 09/16/2014 at 17:28

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I think the too big came from the hefty weight gains. Fortunately it didn't balloon like most other vehicles. I walked past an NC the other day and thought exactly as you did. Car is still as small as it gets.

SlickMcRick > crowmolly 09/16/2014 at 17:29

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200hp isn't necessary for this cars' mission. I do think a solid 170-180 would do though. Maybe that will be in the other engine their working on.

Keith Moon > PS9 09/16/2014 at 17:29

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The 130 BHP engine is a replacement for the current base engine producing 126 BHP. That engine is not offered in the North American market. There is nothing to worry here.

SlickMcRick > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 09/16/2014 at 17:30

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Don't remind me. Had an EG hatch... Oh how I need another in my life. Car was so fun.

mcseanerson > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:30

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Seriously people are spoiled. My first car was a Nissan Pulsar and it weighed around 2200 lbs and made about 90-ish horsepower from a 1.6 with a 3 speed automatic. I LOVED THAT CAR. It was a hoot to hoon in. If you can't have fun with little horsepower in a light car you're not doing it right.

Honda CRX, super desirable right? It is fwd and makes less horsepower than this is rumored in any of it's trims. You don't need a ton of power and if they offer a bigger motor as a higher trim who cares about the base motor anyways.

Vin > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:31

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Mazda isn't selling an 130-hp Miata in the States, period.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:32

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The NC does 0-60 in ~6.5 seconds. Would they really let the new one (even in base trim) be slower than the old one?

SlickMcRick > PS9 09/16/2014 at 17:34

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That CR-Z had soo much potential. With a car as light at it is it doesn't need that hybrid crap to weigh it down just to get sub par mileage. That car would've been perfect with the stock civic and Si motor. Would have flown off the showroom floor.

PS9 > Keith Moon 09/16/2014 at 17:34

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If that's the case, why not just say that during the reveal? "This RHD model comes with the international 1.3L, but the NA LHD model will get [insert whatever they're going to put under the hood here]." It's not like they don't already know; the lead time on new cars is counted in years, not months weeks or days. Was there just not enough time to fit it in with Duran Duran?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 09/16/2014 at 17:36

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You... make a very good point.

Keith Moon > PS9 09/16/2014 at 17:39

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Hmmm, they didn't exactly "say" anything about the engine. The MotorTrend article says :

U.S. specs are yet to be announced, but...

I guess that shows that this spec isn't for the US, or that if it is offered, it will not be the only option. They still offer the 126 BHP engine. They don't mention that in the US because there is no need to talk about it here. That's the problem with leaked JDM specs ;)

crowmolly > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:41

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I understand completely what role it's supposed to fill, but I have hard time believing that that's the best they can do.

Pinkslip > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:45

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US spec will be 2.0L from CX-5 tuned to 165HP. Mark my words.

Dr_Watson > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:45

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somehow they also managed to meet side impact standards while keeping the belt line low enough to still comfortably rest an elbow on the door sill. Thats unheard of in modern cars.

The NC gets a raw deal. It only put on ~200lbs and gained enough power that the 2015 car has a better pwr:wt ratio than the 1989. So it's a pinch heavier but it's still faster. And making it lighter while adding in all the new safety gear would have required exotic for 2006 materials and pushed the price into the bracket where it stop being affordable fun.

My only complaints with my 2011 is that even the sport suspension is too soft. I had to upgrade the tires to 215s to stop the front from washing out. The clutch is a typical Mazda rubber band of vague. And the PRHT is trackday:no.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:48

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I had an EF. she was my baby

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 17:49

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it even looks good. not first or second gen CRX good, but good none the less.

Textured Soy Protein > crowmolly 09/16/2014 at 17:54

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You have to remember that the car only weighs 2250 lbs. It doesn't need a ton of power to be quick.

For comparison's sake, let's look at the Lotus Elise when it came with the 190 hp Toyota I4. It weighed 1979 lbs for a power-to-weight ratio of 10.4 lb/hp, and ran a 1/4 mile in 13.5 seconds . Which is right about the threshold of what I consider a legitimately quick car.

A hypothetical 200 hp ND Miata weighing 2250 lbs is not too far off the old Elise at 11.3 lb/hp, and it'd probably still be doing a sub-14 second 1/4 mile.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > PS9 09/16/2014 at 17:56

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They would also try to make it look edgy and cool, and spaceshipy, and not at all like the smooth, clean and understated cars, they mad in the late 80s and early nineties. You know those ones that have a HUGE hardcore cult fallowing, the ones that make people scream VTAK YO!, and get MY VTEC GOES BWAAAAHHHHHH tattooed on their arm. Honda is trying so had to make their cars "cool" they forgot they all ready were.

I actually had this sticker on my GSR.

Boxer_4 > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 18:00

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$19,999 seems more realistic.

VR1 > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 18:29

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Honestly, I highly doubt the new version will make less then 160-170hp.

SlickMcRick > mcseanerson 09/16/2014 at 18:50

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I understand where you're coming from. This is pretty much a spitting image of my first car.

1990 Escort GT. Everything manual except the seatbelts and side mirrors.

crowmolly > Textured Soy Protein 09/16/2014 at 18:55

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Right, but taking into account weight the difference between 190hp and 167 hp will be noticeable.

I'm not saying it needs to be 400hp, just that given what other cars make nowadays it seems light.

If we put enthusiast and race driving aside, how do you figure 167 hp will be in a car that weighs 2550 lbs with two adults?

Kanaric > SlickMcRick 09/16/2014 at 19:47

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If this base engine is the same as the FRS "base" engine (ie. not a base engine but the ONLY choice) this car is really only going to sell to hairdressers then.

The Toyota MRS made more hp.

Kanaric > Textured Soy Protein 09/16/2014 at 19:48

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It doesn't matter. 2250lbs 130hp and 1.5l torque it will be slower than the NA miata.

Kanaric > mcseanerson 09/16/2014 at 19:49

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Come on. That was the 1980s when underpowered cars were the norm. This is 2014.

Also a 90hp Pulsar is making no try at being a sports car.

Kanaric > Maximum_Odyssey 09/16/2014 at 19:51

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I can't see this either. If this car's only choice is this 1.5 then this is a monumental fail. The Toyota MRS would be a faster car. At least then a 2ZZ is a bolt in for that. Toyota would have a better car by just selling that again.

This is like pure Japanese malaise right here. They wouldn't consider such an engine for the MX5 in the 90s.

Textured Soy Protein > crowmolly 09/16/2014 at 19:58

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We have no idea what the step up motor will be at this point. But it's not like the Miata has ever been particularly quick in a straight line. Really as long as it's about as quick as a Toyobaru nobody's going to complain.

Textured Soy Protein > Kanaric 09/16/2014 at 20:00

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And...that's why there's going to be a larger motor than the 1.5 liter.

Kanaric > Textured Soy Protein 09/16/2014 at 20:03

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Evidence for this claim? All I see is 1.5l in the car. MX-5 not having engine choices. it's competitors like the FRS not having any choices, etc.

350Z or 370z, MX5, MRS, FRS, RX8 etc. All single engine choice. There was a turbo Miata for 1 or 2 years, sure, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

I've been waiting for the people who said that the FRS WILL have a turbo to be proven right still.

mcseanerson > Kanaric 09/16/2014 at 20:22

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You have no idea. It was basically Nissan's Integra based on the Sentra. It was very sporty and a blast on the backroads.

Kanaric > mcseanerson 09/16/2014 at 20:24

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Back then a Swift GTI and AW11 was considered to be fun cars when here they had like 110-120hp around. They were not bad.

Textured Soy Protein > Kanaric 09/16/2014 at 20:52

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Except for the first few years of the NA, the Miata has always had two engine choices. Just not in the US.

The NA 1.8 replaced the original 1.6 in the US in '94, but in other parts of the world Mazda continued selling the 1.6 as the base model . The NB offered the same 1.6 and 1.8 liter motors , with the US getting only the 1.8. The NC had both 1.8 and 2.0 liter motors , again with the US only getting the larger portion.

This article , which Motor Tend is perhaps referencing without attribution, mentions that the 1.5 liter on the ND will be the base model.

As expected, however, there will be a larger 2.0-litre SKYACTIV engine, but our information is it will follow the launch of the initial 1.5-litre MX-5 by up to a year.

The Motor Trend article linked to in this post, also says:

As expected, however, there will be a larger 2.0-liter SKYACTIV engine, but our information is it will follow the launch of the initial 1.5-liter MX-5 by up to a year.

Which, you know, is word-for-word copy of the Motoring.com.au article, except for saying liter instead of litre.

crowmolly > Textured Soy Protein 09/16/2014 at 21:13

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A Miata has never been considered a straight line performer, I was speaking about general driving. And aren't there a lot of complaints about the Toyobarus having too little power?

I just really hope they step it up a bit. Doesn't have to be a ton as that probably has too much cost implications.

Textured Soy Protein > crowmolly 09/16/2014 at 21:30

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Oh, I'm all for more power. I had an NB for 4 years and it was super fun, especially with some suspension and brake mods that I did. But the power was never more than adequate. Since then I've had a Mazdaspeed 6 and a 135is. Power is good.

And yes, the Toyobaru at 200 hp and 2750 lbs is thought of as underpowered. Which is all about context. Because tons of fondly-remembered 90s and early-00s performance cars had similar specs. But now, yeah, the Toyobaru is a bit underpowered.

Compared to the Toyobaru, another Japanese sports car known for its low center of gravity and great handling is the FD RX-7, which clocks in at 255 hp and 2850 lbs. In stock form, they're still reasonably quick. Not going to set the world on fire but the wide powerband (from a high redline + twin turbos) and short gearing put a stock FD in the high 13s in the 1/4.

Now let's say for the sake of argument that Mazda puts a 200 hp motor in the Miata. Just hypothetically. Who knows if they actually will. But that'd be the same basic power as the Toyobaru, in a car that weighs 500 lbs less. It might not be as quick as the FD but it'd be damn sure quicker than the Toyobaru.