I just won a debate with my mother.....

"Matthew Phillips" (flatsidewaysfl) 09/09/2014 at 23:12 • Filed to: purchase, firstpurchase, mx5, escape

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So, being a student still living at home, and the younger child My parent's still have a say on some of the things I do, such as vehicles.

If any of you have been following my post recently I haven't had the best of luck with my car in the past month, and recently I've decided at the option of saving a grand and some and financing a car up to four grand over the next three years.

Earlier this week I came to my parent's with motorcycle, Dad said yes, mom said no, end of discussion. At 21 years old this is frustrating, but I am getting free food and until I get a new vehicle,lodging soooo.

earlier today I narrowed down my fantasy's to two vehicles.

1. Ford Escape

2. Mazda Miata (1st gen)

My Mom's main concern is safety, we all agreed that the Miata compared to my other choice probably isn't going to win any awards, but I brought up it's not a Motorcycle and then things went into my favor.

My reasons for these two are this.

If I buy a utility vehicle, I don't want it to be too heavy, I'm not hauling constructions goods, but I want some ruggedness and an even balance of passenger and cargo room, the second is brand loyalty. I am a Ford man for life, I can't run from it, the men on my namesake side have been driving Ford or GM for close to 100 years now and my Great-grandfather and my father picked Ford. The passenger room is what kicked the B4000 and Ranger off my list, I have friends and family that I like to drive around with, in relative comfort. (plus Ford owned Mazda for awhile so it's in the family)

The second is driving dynamics, I enjoyed driving my Taurus, but there are things a RWD car (my explorer) does better than my Taurus did, I felt more confident in some areas of Nova with RWD then I did with FWD.

The third is fuel consumption. The Escape is still a modern CUV and one of my good friends has a Mazda Tribute, she averages more combined than my Explorer and Taurus ever did, with almost more space than both cars combined, with the carlike feel of my Taurus and the Stance of the explorer it brings me home a bit. The Miata and Civic Si were firm competitors at this point on the car side

the fourth was maintenance. I really don't want to do an operation on another FWD car as long as I live, the Taurus taught me that and this is why the Civic got kicked out, I know it's like a modern day Vw beetle in terms of maintenance, but with the explorer I found things easier to do when the engine is facing the correct position.

Cost, I mentioned an E30 a few days ago..... Miata and Escape win on cost in maintenance and parts alone. I don't even want to know what my insurance would look like

So in the end My mom allowed the Miata as a contender, but only if I install a Rollcage....and she made a comment on how there's space for only me... Which I don't mind because MX5!!!

Oppo Oppinions

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:19

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Back when my mom was worried that my car didn't have ABS or airbags, I just told her I wasn't gonna crash anyways. Believe it or not, that did it :p

Your boy, BJR > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:19

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The answer is always…..

Seriously. Single greatest vehicle I've ever owned. I can't suggest it enough. And i went into it looking at CL for immediate replacement. But shit dude, this thing does every last thing i ask it to do better than i expect it to.

Sam > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:21

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Tell your mom that I got t-boned by a Rav4 in my Miata and am here typing to you. I didn't even break any bones, just got a small (about an inch long) but deep gouge on my arm. And a full rollcage is a really, really bad idea on a street car. You'll bash your head on the bars and it won't be pretty. You just need a rollbar which attaches to the sides of the car (where the seatbelts attach). That'll protect you in a side impact a bit and if you somehow manage to flip the thing.

Matthew Phillips > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 09/09/2014 at 23:22

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Funny thing is my mom brought up a Hybrid, then I told her the Prii and insights I found in my price range had upwards of 200-300k (no lie) at this point I just need a car.

Matthew Phillips > Sam 09/09/2014 at 23:23

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Noted,

The Transporter > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:23

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Disregard mothers, acquire Miatas, install roll bars.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:24

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Dayum. My 18 years old car doesn't even have 100 thousand miles yet...

Matthew Phillips > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 09/09/2014 at 23:26

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lol do you drive.... My taurus had 175(or 275 I dunno) on it when I sold it and the Explorer died at 327k

98 explorer, 94 Taurus

Cherry_man1 > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:26

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2010 SHO not an option? Or mustang

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:28

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I don't drive a lot, nope. There aren't many places to go in my area, and brazilian roads are too chaotic for "spirited drives", plus I'm a slave to college for most of my day, so... yeah.

Scary__goongala! > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:28

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Im 20, a college student, no marks at all on driving record. And I live at home when not at school. Also the youngest child but the only one still living at home. I bought a NA Miata in July. Basic insurance on it is cheaper than what it was on my 83' MB 300TD. I have the benefit of also being in the Army so my parents really have nothing to help pay for besides random odds and ends. You have to decide want vs. need. My parents have an extra car so I used that for getting my stuff to school, then I went home again to get the Miata. Since you are not buying a brand new car, whatever you buy isnt going to be the safest thing on the road. And I firmly believe the best safety feature is a good driver. Also Miata owners still debate if rollbars are actually beneficial for road cars.

Matthew Phillips > Cherry_man1 09/09/2014 at 23:29

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I..... don't want to pay more than 4k for my first car that I Finance. Plus my insurance is at a comfortable level. I can afford a Mustang... I'm waiting until I can afford a nice 64 block top or 68 fastback to ecoboost and call it a day.

The next and last Taurus I ever aquire will be a 93 SHO.. and not as a DD

JGrabowMSt > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:31

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Why not wagon?

-cheap insurance, fun to drive, people stay away from you, you can haul friends anywhere.

If you look at an Escape, check for rust. We already saw the fate of a rusty Escape just a short while ago.

Miatas simply dont do anything for me. Is that wrong? They have plenty of upsides, but Im not sure I would be interested much in one as a DD. Id want something a little more. What about a 944, or other coupe, you know with a top, for silly things like driving in the rain, chassis stiffness, and comfort in cold weather?

I think for your budget, there are better things than both the Escape and Miata. If youre buying a used car, look for cars know for resilience against rust, and structural integrity. I think a smaller pickup would be great, and more useful than a Miata as a DD, while being as utilitarian as an Escape. Maybe what you really need is a Brat.

Yes, Ive found your solution. Get a Brat. Seats 4, four wheel drive for the winters, EXTREMELY easy and cheap to work on, TONS of fun for both driver and passengers, cargo space, and fuel economy thats rodiculously good.

Youre welcome.

Matthew Phillips > Scary__goongala! 09/09/2014 at 23:34

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Do you use USAA ? I love them. (my dad retired army last year, both my grandads were marines)

At this point none of us in the household have a vehicle until next month when they buy one. we all kinda do things to help out since my dad is using the G.I. to support five adults and go to school for a certification. that why this is a debate at all.

I want something for me while I can get it.

Scary__goongala! > The Transporter 09/09/2014 at 23:34

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CAN I GET AN AMENNNNNN

Cherry_man1 > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:36

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go gran Torino trust me. And I also feel ya

Matthew Phillips > JGrabowMSt 09/09/2014 at 23:38

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Yes and no, I've seen some really good examples of the Escape and have had hands on to make me consider a purchase.

I drove a taurus.... willingly... anything is better than that ;)

I was looking at Subaru wagons, but I'm not familiar with them, and with my tight budget I'm sticking with a familiar brand with tons of support until I make twice as much as I am now, then I can afford to explore a little more.

Scary__goongala! > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:42

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Yes I do. I never bothered cross shopping because I figured they were the best bet. Their pricing seems to be good and the customer service is excellent. I've had no problems with them at all. You should be able to get it from them because of your dad. I'd say go for the Miata. Not just because its a Miata but because as you said its something for you. Buy it while you can. Thats part of why I bought mine. My next car will be fun as well, but not as one directional as a Miata.

Matthew Phillips > Cherry_man1 09/09/2014 at 23:42

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Funny story about a Gran-T

I accidently locked my keys in the Taurus last summer, and my friend and I were stuck with the spares in a drawer at home. he was sporting mementos of the GT his family junked (family dispute)and he had the keys with him, they... looked awfully familiar, so we tried it out and we were back on the road.

68 Torino sedan, 94 Taurus sedan..... The torino.... was a loss the both of us mourn to this day.

Matthew Phillips > Scary__goongala! 09/09/2014 at 23:44

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my rate for the Taurus was $68 a Month compared to Geico and the others wanting me to shell $250 per month...

The explorer sits pretty with $84 per month.

Scary__goongala! > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:47

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jeez, yeah being a male under 25 doesn't help haha. Even if your record is clean.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Sam 09/09/2014 at 23:49

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Holy balls. How fast was the other guy going? Got any pictures of the Miata? Trying to sell my dad on the idea of a Miata.

JGrabowMSt > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:50

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The Brat is not a wagon, it's a Ute with two rear facing seats in the bed. It has a very small 4cyl boxer that you can pull out alone without a hoist, and it's extremely basic and simple to work on. Spare tire is under the hood as well. I've seen a couple extremely well done cars that are incredible.

Seen at Lehigh Valley C&C

Matthew Phillips > Scary__goongala! 09/09/2014 at 23:51

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oh.... I'm squeaky clean lol... My friends hate when I drive cause I leave thirty minutes early , and drive accordingly.

I've had one parking ticket since I've been allowed to drive.

Matthew Phillips > JGrabowMSt 09/09/2014 at 23:54

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My mom would love that (I actually get my taste for the weird and quirky from her), but she would probably try and get me into an El Camino. :P

But no, I'd get a Ranger before I buy that... for practicality alone. Or a Baja :/

Steve in Manhattan > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:55

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I know it's FWD, but I had a blast with mine - perhaps you could find a cherry example that hasn't been modified within an inch of its life? V8, spacious, decent specs, and mine was dead reliable.

lone_liberal > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:57

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I daily a 2006 Mariner which is an Escape with a different grill. It's a good, if very beige, practical car. It's not fun but it drives well enough and has plenty of cargo room with the back seats down.

Matthew Phillips > Steve in Manhattan 09/09/2014 at 23:58

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After my 94 I have my mind set on a SHO from that same generation. I'm not fond of that era of ford design. Plus working on my 94 Was a pain sometimes. It got easier, but not something I would want to do if I purchase, the escape is an exception.

Scary__goongala! > Matthew Phillips 09/09/2014 at 23:59

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Another benefit to the Miata...only room for one complaining rider.

Matthew Phillips > lone_liberal 09/09/2014 at 23:59

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My friend she drives a Tribute and yea.... It's like a Focus and an Explorer made relations.... I like it though

Speaking of that I would love a pre 2014 Transit connect.... but not willing to pay over 4k at the moment.

Matthew Phillips > Scary__goongala! 09/10/2014 at 00:00

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yup, my sister at the way I'm going into turns.

lone_liberal > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 00:08

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The 3.0 V6 makes it not exactly fast but not dog slow either. I'd say adequate. In fact "adequate" pretty much sums up the car. The one thing that stands out is the sound system. The Mariner has separate tweeters in the A pillars and a sub out back which sounds pretty damn good for a stock system in a not particularly expensive car.

Matthew Phillips > lone_liberal 09/10/2014 at 00:11

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Which 3.0 ? The Taurus and Aerostar that have been through my family had the Vulcan of old... is this a newer 3.0 or a modern vulcan ?

Adequate is the right word for the Vulcan as well.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 00:13

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Those Escapes are terrible, My mom had a 04 four cyl AWD, one and it was just annoying to drive, got maybe 25mpg average, and the auto trans was one of the worst I've ever driven. . BUT you can every once and awhile find a manual trans Escape. Also I'd bet a v6 Escape isn't as bad.

another thing that bugged me about my Mom's Escape was it replaced her 03 Focus wagon, 5 speed. Which was supposed to be my first car, at least that was the plan when they bought it. They figured they'd pay it off in four years and drive it for a year payment free then sell it to me for cheap. But my Dad insisted that my Mom would be happier with AWD, and an auto trans. Because the Escape was a much more expensive vehicle, it wasn't paid of by the time I got my licence tho, which is good because it means I didn't get it as my first car.

My mother is sit a bit angry that she was forced to sell her Focus, which she says is her second favorite cars she's owned, after her Datsun 510.

JGrabowMSt > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 00:18

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What makes a Ranger more practical than a Brat? The Brat wont get stuck anywhere, and you can seat 4 and still have bed room (the rear seats do have regular 3 point belts). The brat will also get better gas mileage (flat 4 cyl), and is far more unique at the same time (T-Tops FTW!). Nothing wrong with an El Camino, but the Brat would still actually be more practical.

I've always had a soft spot for the Baja actually, I will admit. They look great in Yellow. I'd get one if I ever needed something with a rear bed. I'm perfectly happy with the wagon though, so no need really.

Matthew Phillips > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 09/10/2014 at 00:19

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.....I never saw 25 average on any of my old fords.... I live in Nova so I'm looking for either a toy (I'm allowed to buy) or a Commuter ( the default)

If the 4pot on the Escape bothered you, stay away from the old vulcan 3.0 V6's in my Taurus, my friend with the Tribute has the 4pot with auto (fwd) and she smoked the Taurus with no problems.

If I buy another Ford I don't want the flashiest one, just the one that meets my current needs as a commuter vehicle, Miatas make sense as a City crawler as well.

lone_liberal > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 00:19

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It's the Duratec 3.0. I had a Windstar with the old 3.8 and while that old engine had plenty of torque I'd say the Duratec is the better of the two.

Matthew Phillips > JGrabowMSt 09/10/2014 at 00:21

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I can pull apart my explorer to keep the Ranger on the road.... and the Ranger has two (enclosed) jumpseats, so my passengers will be protected from the elements

Matthew Phillips > lone_liberal 09/10/2014 at 00:22

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I've heard the horror stories of the old 3.8's

never lol, I would love a duratec though.

lone_liberal > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 00:29

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Actually, my 3.8 was solid. In fact when I sold it to my nephew he had his Ford Tech BIL check it out. He was shocked that it was in the condition it was. No head gasket issues, great compression, and even the trans was solid. It may have been the one Windstar to be solid driveline wise. It still had the typical power window failure and other Windstar problems, though.

JGrabowMSt > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 00:30

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Now you're just removing the fun from it. Look how happy they are!

But there is a rear bed cap if you really wanted to spare them from the elements. Personally, I'd want to ride in the back just to make faces at other drivers.

Matthew Phillips > JGrabowMSt 09/10/2014 at 00:36

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......maybe in the future...

TheStraightSixKid > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 00:42

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I think someone likes the Subaru Brat.

TheStraightSixKid > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 00:54

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WHAT SORCERY IS THIS?

Matthew Phillips > TheStraightSixKid 09/10/2014 at 01:02

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How so ?

Sam > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 09/10/2014 at 01:17

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These are all the pics that my friend took after the crash. (My phone's camera broke because it was in my left pocket) It was an impact right in front of the driver's side door that spun me 720 degrees into a bridge support which is why the back is so folded. It was hard enough that it shifted the entire front axle to the right. The lady in the Rav4 was speeding at about 50 in a 30 zone. The light went red right before I crossed the line and she didn't plan on slowing down for the intersection.

http://imgur.com/a/70OUg - the only 4 pictures I have on hand.

Steve in Manhattan > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 02:28

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Or this?

Matthew Phillips > Steve in Manhattan 09/10/2014 at 05:07

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I thought about it, I liked them back in the day... but no

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Sam 09/10/2014 at 08:19

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Holy crap, that held up well. Glad you made it out

mcseanerson > Sam 09/10/2014 at 08:25

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I got hit by a trailblazer in mine and I'm still driving it.

Pixel > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 08:48

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If you hate working on FWD vehicles, don't buy an Escape. They are built on a FWD chassis so the engine compartment looks like this:

Cherry_man1 > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 09:04

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So the torino's tooth pattern matched the Taurus's tooth pattern?

Alex B > Your boy, BJR 09/10/2014 at 09:30

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Is it a hog on gas though?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 09:39

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Honestly, that Escape with the 3.0 V6 is a great little CUV.

It's basically a lifted Fusion, and the 1st gen fusion + 3.0 V6 is flawless. I have an 07 Milan with the 3.0 and it's been great so far (I've put almost 45k miles on it in 2 years).

Go Ford!

MIATAAAA > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 09:43

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Obviously get the Escape! Escape all the way! Who WOULDN'T want an Escape?!

Tohru > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 13:45

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So you're a master debater with your mom? Ew.

Matthew Phillips > Pixel 09/10/2014 at 17:21

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I was giving the Escape an exemption since it makes sense...

Joshua "Dr. Science" Gilbert > Alex B 09/10/2014 at 18:16

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It's the working-man's version of Acura's MDX, or the other way around. The original platform of the Pilot is shared with the YD1 MDX. You can get an a YD1 MDX if you want the 3.5 VTECH (for less than 10k, but high millage. You can get one for 2k fully loaded if you look around, no accidents.) The Pilot is equally as good, but it's body lends it some safety vulnerabilities for front-impacts. Even the '14 ratings are poor for front crash. If you find either a 2001-2006 Acura MDX or a Honda Pilot, you are buying the same car. The Pilot will undoubtedly be more utilitarian and have a smidge more cargo space. They are only bad on gas if you have bad driving habits. Both are a B-/+ on gas, honestly. I loved the YD1 MDX when our family had it. And my friend has a '05? Pilot and loves the thing. Solid platform.

Steve in Manhattan > Matthew Phillips 09/10/2014 at 19:15

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Let us know when you figure it out ...