I'm starting to think I'll never own an E30

"mcseanerson" (mcseanerson) 09/08/2014 at 13:27 • Filed to: None

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Just watched the new RCR video (I'm not linking it because that would make me like the 4th person to do so.) and I'm starting to think there's no good reason for me to own one other than to say I've owned one.

I don't think there's any great experience on a track or an autocross that I could get from an E30 that I can't get from my Miata.

Another problem I have with the E30 is I think I've seen one at an autocross but I think I've seen at least a dozen E36 and they are fast. Not just M3's either, I've seen some E36 325 with no engine mods stomping on guys in M3's.

Next might be the whole rally aspect but for some reason I can't bring myself to want an e30 for rally. Not that I have anything against rwd rally cars, in fact I love rwd rally cars. To me though I just feel rally cars should be scandinavian, as long as I'm going for a Euro vibe anyways.

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Maybe I'm wrong. Am I missing out some great, big, giant point about E30 ownership Oppo?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 13:35

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I'd much rather have an E36.

You know, because I can actually comfortable fit in those, unlike the 325ix Sedan I looked at right after getting my permit.

RallyWrench > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 13:37

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Consider the E30 as a more practical Miata, and you'll get it. They're overhyped, but are really good cars, with great balance and adequate power & torque, plus they're easy to work on & sound bitchin'. The steering is nowhere near as good as the Miata's, but is nice & direct. For it's time, it was the best & remains a lot of fun for the money.

You've got a good point though, the E36 is a better car by any measure but interior quality, and is really cheap. I've owned lots of BMWs over the years, from 2002 to E21, E30, E28, and E46, and the 30 was a lot of fun. Now though, I'm looking for a cheap E36 325 to daily & hoon around in. All they need is a limited slip and it's Dial-A-Slide, all day.

mcseanerson > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 09/08/2014 at 13:39

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I actually like the E36 based on costs. I can find tons of potential E36 track rats for under 2k where any decent E30 track rat potential pops up on CL under 3k and it's gone within a day.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 13:41

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This is also very true.

And you can get an E36 M3 for stupid cheap because "It isn't as powerful as the European car so clearly it's worthless" Even though it still makes like 240 horsepower in a car that's not exactly a heavyweight.

mcseanerson > RallyWrench 09/08/2014 at 13:42

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That's the biggest problem for me is the E36. They are cheaper and faster, they just don't have the "prestige" about them that the E30 has. If you buy an E36 people assume you couldn't afford the E30 or E46 you really wanted.

mcseanerson > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 09/08/2014 at 13:43

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I'd be happy with just a regular E36, they're still plenty fast.

Your boy, BJR > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 13:49

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If you're wrong, I'm a jalop anti-christ. I fuckin' hate these cars. So much to the point that I'm pissed I'll have to scroll past it when looking at my youtube history.

mcseanerson > Your boy, BJR 09/08/2014 at 13:52

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I think one of the things that has soured me is the BuildRaceParty crew. They reek more of buildrace PARTYPARTYPARTY!!!

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 13:54

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That they are.

Tripper > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 14:32

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I have tried to buy an E30 at least 4 times, each time I'm halted by copious amounts of needed repairs or a steep price tag, and one seller who retracted his offer after he found out what he had. I've decided that an E30 is a great car to own but a difficult car to buy.

RallyWrench > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 14:38

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But if you've driven both, you know better than they do. I think the styling has a lot to do with it, as the E30 was the last sort of classically proportioned BMW, so it's got an appealing look.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 14:39

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I'm glad I came across your post. I had commented on the post with the RCR video from the opposite end of where you're sitting - I own an E30 and am considering a Miata.

First, to address your points - you're right. The E36 is certainly a better car, and much better value for money. You get a faster, more comfortable car for less money. But it is also likely to lose value or stay stagnated at best for a while longer (and except for the M3 not sure if the regular E36 models will ever be considered desirable), compared to E30s that are steadily increasing in value - this self-perpetuating cycle is of course why E30s are expensive to start with. It's a good car, but more than that it's evokes nostalgia and has an undeserved cult following....somewhat like the Miata.

Chris Harris' Miata video is relevant here - it's a GREAT car...but it's not the answer to everything and is not the single best sports car ever built -

After some very preliminary insight into Miata ownership (based on test drive of a 1.8l 96 model) these are my thoughts on the 2 cars -

E30: more practical and spacious. I've done everything from ski trips to track days in this car. I've transported 2 kayaks. Transported 5 adults in a pinch. However it has also left me stranded more than a handful of times. A lot of fun to drive, but can be a pain to maintain - I'm constantly having to replace little things here and there (or big things...ahem, engine) and it gets old (and expensive - yes, cheap er than a new european car - but still not cheap for something that is an old beater). In today's market I'd say you've missed the train and it's not worthwhile buying one given everything else you can spend that money on...save a bit more and get an E36 M3.

Miata: I want one within the next few months. Narrowed down to wanting a 94+ NA model - newer, fewer miles, and a few more creature comforts and power with little sacrifice (I think?). Steering and gear lever is miles better than the E30. The gearbox on the E30 is probably the single weakest part of that car - it is a rubbery annoying mushpit and generally plagued by the annoying getrag rattles. That NA gear shift I tested yesterday was so sweet in comparison. Steering was excellent (compared to the E30) too, as was balance and the way the car transitioned its weight. Super fun car - and appears to be much cheaper to run and maintain, if I'm not mistaken? I think it's a great time to buy...there are still a few decent ones available on the market and prices are ready to start skyrocketing I think.

A question, if I may - how do you find the practicality and comfort? This will certainly be a toy/weekend car - so I'm not expecting to commute or do family vacations in it. But taking a weekend trip (with the +1) with a few hours drive would be nice. I'm concerned about luggage space - that trunk is very shallow and tiny , esp with that spare tire in there. Solution = trunk mounted luggage rack? Also, I obviously haven't driven one for long periods of time - does it get unpleasant after an hour or two of highway driving?

I'd honestly say avoid the E30 at this point - save an extra grand or two and grab a clean E36 M3 before they start getting super desirable again. Any other points to consider about a Miata from your ownership experience would be appreciated.

mcseanerson > RallyWrench 09/08/2014 at 14:39

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I do like the look of it but a lot of other cars possess a similar look including several other BMWs.

RallyWrench > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 14:46

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Which is why I sold the E30 at the time & kept my E28 (since stupidly sold) & 2002 :)

TurnDownForWatt > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 14:54

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You're about 10-15 years late on the E30 bandwagon.

They're a fun, well designed tossable sports sedan, and from the mid/late nineties to the early 2000s, they were inexpensive compared to the E36. Now, they've been run into the ground by flatbills and baggypants gen-y kids and good ones are back to being a 5-7k car. For that money you can get a nice e36, and for a little more an e36 M3 - at that point there's no comparison.

TurnDownForWatt > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 14:55

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What "prestige" does an E30 have exactly?

This is coming from someone who's owned one for over 20 years, unless it's an e30 M3, most of them look like rode-to-hell shitheaps.

With that regard, what prestige does a 3 series have at all? These are entry level yuppie cars and lease cruisers.

mcseanerson > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/08/2014 at 14:56

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I absolutely love Mazda gearshifts, they are heavenly and the biggest reason I still drive manual. The clutch feel on the other hand leaves a bit to be desired. Taking two people in a Miata shouldn't be too difficult. The trunk is odd shaped (with the spare in) but is actually substantial for a vehicle this size. I would rock a luggage rack if I was considering the same usage you are. I bought mine from an ad off Miata.net in DC and drove it rt50 (the same one covered on the recent smoking tire video) back to Ohio. The biggest problem for me is I was driving like I was rushing and I'm a big guy and I had to stop after a few hours to stretch my body. In a car with a back seat I would have just parked for a bit and reclined the seat for a quick cat nap.

TurnDownForWatt > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 14:56

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Bill Caswell is a fractious queen and a fucking drama-filled train wreck. Follow his facebook and gawk at his disastrous life.

mcseanerson > TurnDownForWatt 09/08/2014 at 15:02

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That's the point of the quotes. Some people think they're better than others.

mcseanerson > TurnDownForWatt 09/08/2014 at 15:03

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I did for a bit and became disillusioned very quickly.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 15:27

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The only point is to say "I own an E30!"

If you were smart, you'd be looking at an E36 or non-M E46. Those can be had much cheaper, and are still very capable cars.

I'm still considering one to trackify.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > mcseanerson 09/08/2014 at 17:26

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Yeah, you hear a lot about Honda gear shifts but not Mazda never gets the credit they deserve for their shifters.I guess the clutch is super light and hence a bit vague? I certainly needed a little effort figuring out the miata clutch during the test drive, but I had also stepped right out of my weird Subaru clutch made of glass.

mcseanerson > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/08/2014 at 17:28

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I don't know about the one you drove but my Miata and my previous car, a 2004 Mazda 3, had such vague clutches. I never feel the engagement point. I tried out a FiST and I was like "Oh, that's a clutch engagement point."

mfennell > mcseanerson 09/09/2014 at 09:18

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My wife has what sometimes seems to be the only un-fucked-with E30 on the planet. A 123k mile red/black 318is she has owned for 16 years. Completely stock save for a Jim Conforti chip. I drove it to work yesterday for the first time in a long while and had two thoughts: 1) "I forgot how slow this is" and; 2) "I forgot how fun this is". It really is one of those cars where the whole is more than the sum of its parts.

mcseanerson > mfennell 09/09/2014 at 10:40

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I'm sure they're fine cars but I don't think they're worth the price people are wanting for decent ones now.