How I explained buying a 1000 as your first bike

"E30Joe drives a Subaru" (325joe) 09/05/2014 at 00:27 • Filed to: None

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A friend of mine wanted to buy a motorcycle and he was sending my CL ads for CBR1000's and Ducati 1098's and Yamaha R1's and keep in mind he has literally never ridden a motorcycle before that I know of (maybe he has ridden some pit/dirt bikes but that's not for sure).

I explained to him earlier that learning the basics of riding a bike like clutching and how to roll on and off the throttle was actually pretty easy and intuitive for most people so he might have gotten the thought in his head that riding any bike was easy.

After sending me all these links I said to him,

Imagine you are starving, you haven't eaten for over 24 hours. In front of you is a plate filled to the top with your favorite food, but you can only eat 1/4 of it, the rest you have to throw away. If you eat any more than 1/4 of it, you'll die. Riding a liter bike is very similar, you know that all this power and the capability for the machine to perform at a high standard is there, but you as the rider lack to ability to extract it. And you will try and try and try but you will only get maybe 25-30 percent of what is there. And sooner than later you'll bite off more than you can chew and on a 250 or a smaller bike, that's just going to result in a frustrated walk away from your wrecked bike as apposed to an ambulance ride away from your wrecked bike generally speaking.

Now I know that not everyone who starts on a bigger bike gets in to some trouble with it... But still, to someone who does not understand how a bike turns and accelerates and brakes compared to a car, a 1000 is a death wish. Even myself, who has been on a bike for awhile, could only get 75-80 maybe out of my 600 and that was when I was really pushing myself and getting to that edge of your ability where you start to scare yourself a bit. I can only imagine how razor thin that edge is to someone who has never even ridden a motorcycle before let alone on a liter bike.

I ended up explaining this to him and he was like "You just turn the bars to corner how hard can that be?" I'm pretty worried he's going to end up getting a liter bike or something similar and do something stupid despite my advice.

EDIT: Thinking about this, he probably just googled "Fastest motorcycles" and wanted one on a list, not realizing that unlike a car, most of what makes a bike fast is the rider. Given that a fast driver will make any car faster, the factor is amplified quite a bit witha bike.

For your troubles

Jacques L' Autre > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 00:29

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"You just turn the bars to corner how hard can that be?"

Take out a life insurance policy on your friend while you still can.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > Jacques L' Autre 09/05/2014 at 00:30

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I tried to explain it's not like a car where you turn the bars (steering wheel) where you want the car to go, you turn the opposite way enough to lean you far enough to turn at the angle you need but the concept seemed difficult to grasp.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 00:31

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Flipping over if he expects to turn just by turning the bars, that's how hard it will be, tarmac hard.

Roadster Man > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 00:32

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Sit him down in real life and tell him that. It's like deciding to learn how to ride horses... and you start off with a BULL instead of a pony . Sure, you sit on top of them both, but they aren't even the same animal.

Not smart.

Sam > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 00:34

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The only type of person who could ride a 1000 as a first bike is someone who truly has complete self-control. If they understand that they can't push the bike to even 20% of it's full potential, then they can get away with it.

Still too expensive to be worthwhile, though.

Jacques L' Autre > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 00:35

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I stand by my suggestion. What's keeping him from looking at R6s, or CBR600s though? Still maybe not the best options for a non-rider, but a hell of a lot less likely to leave him as a smear on the pavement. That's assuming he ever gets past third gear on his liter bike.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > Roadster Man 09/05/2014 at 00:35

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That's exactly what I'm saying. It's nothing like a car, I wouldn't worry about sitting the kid in something like a GT-R because at least it's got air bags, ABS, traction control, and he has been driving long enough to have the basic understanding of how it will handle.

Sitting his ass on a bike with no seat belts, air bags, ABS, traction control, or any thing really that would be regarded as a "safety feature" is a bad idea.

Roadster Man > Sam 09/05/2014 at 00:35

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Yeah, you'll lay it down once or twice while you're learning, and then wonder why you didn't start out with something cheap.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > Jacques L' Autre 09/05/2014 at 00:39

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He want's "The fastest" or the best he can get, even after explaining to him that I could probably lose him a few turns in with me on a 250 and him on a 1000.

I only rode a 600 this summer and I know they are plenty fast and I have a lot of time in the seat on other bikes too. I explained to him that a 600 and 1000 are pretty similar up to about 80-100 MPH depending on brand but he likes everything about 1k's I guess. I'm sure he will end up getting something more reasonable but man he is stupid sometimes. He thinks it's similar to just buying a fast car. I told him a bike is only as fast as you want it to go, but man when you have 200HP at the rear wheel on a 400 pound bike, you want it to go damn fast.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > Roadster Man 09/05/2014 at 00:43

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I have been riding a long time and I still go down every once in awhile, sometimes shit happens. I've only been down twice on the street and both times drastically changed how I rode.

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 00:47

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Make him take the MSF Ridercourse before he buys anything. It might get him to be sensible.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > Jeff-God-of-Biscuits 09/05/2014 at 00:49

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I told him that makes the insurance cheaper so he was interested, and it actually teaches you a thing or two.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 02:26

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You need to see every pebble, stick and puddle. You need to think about whether or not that huge tree on the corner has coated the road with slippery sap. You need to think about how to approach railroad tracks and potholes. You need to think about how heavy traffic is and what kinds of drivers are around you. Then get on a litre bike and you have to think twice as fast. And the way the throttle works can screw you if you aren't ready for it, hit it too hard and your inertia will be trying to throw you off the back all while your hand is gripping the throttle, unable to let go or loosen up without being thrown because of that inertia that you created by hitting the throttle too hard. A litre bike for an inexperienced rider is suicidal.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 09/05/2014 at 03:13

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I know right!? I just can't understand his line of reasoning, but he's most likely never ridden so he wouldn't know and is just making an assumption.

For instance I bet his gut instinct when coming in to a turn without enough lean angle is to hit the front brake, stand it up a bit and go slow through the turn, when in reality that'll send you right off the road and you should do the exact opposite. That's how I put my bike down the first time I had a street bike. Coming in too hot, my basic reaction was to slow down and stand up the turn instead of giving it more gas and leaning it over even further (this is where the "I'm only riding at 75% of the bikes ability when I'm giving it my 100% ability" thing comes in) I would have been perfectly fine.

It's stuff like knowing you can lean more and turn sharper by going faster which doesn't make sense to people who are accustomed to driving instead of riding. Naturally you would assume if you are moving slower, you will turn sharper, when the reality is you can only lean so far at a certain speed before you need to increase your lean angle.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 03:33

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I know exactly what you mean. To make it even worse some litre bikes are big heavy pigs. Heavy bikes are a bitch if you're not accustomed to them. Heavy bikes make going slow even more difficult. Or what if something jumps out in front of you? A noob well probably lock up the brakes and drop it, but an experienced rider may be able to hit the throttle and turn away from the obstruction. On a litre bike you well more than likely be going too fast and dropping the bike will put you in an ambulance like you were saying. Riding a bike like that has to be at least partially instinctual. Noob's don't have the experience for instinct, so they need slow bikes while they learn.

Hell, I haven't ridden in more than 5 years and I want to get a bike at some point, but I wouldn't look for anything bigger than probably 700-800 just because I'm out of practice even though I consider myself to be a well versed and at least semi-competent rider.

V8VespaStoppie > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 04:17

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So he's bi..ke curios Huh ?

Axial > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 04:51

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To make your comparison hit home a little more, the only reason buying a fast car today is "no big deal" is because of modern computers and traction/stability control.

Buying an analogue fast car from 1990 or older without knowing how to use it is another surefire way to get an ambulance ride away from the wreck...assuming you are even alive.

I really hope your friend sees the light.

yamahog > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 07:54

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LOLOLOLOL Good luck to your broseph. What do you ride? Maybe you can offer him the passenger seat and scare some sense into him.

Also, if nothing else, starting on a 250/300 is great because they hold their value so well. I actually made a profit on my old Ninja 250. They're really light and fun too, my dad owns a Triumph Trophy and an FZ09 right now and he couldn't help flying around on my Ninja while I had it.

And FWIW, my coworker has an R6 and an R1, and the R6 is his track bike. There's someone who brings out a Hayabusa and you only get to see the speed in the straightaway, the rest of the time it's like watching someone wrangle a fat dolphin.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > yamahog 09/05/2014 at 08:08

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I ride an R6, lighter than the R1 which makes me have more fun where a bike should shine, in the corners. I Should show him that even with a passenger a 600 wont even break a sweat when it comes to speed.

Tohru > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/05/2014 at 10:21

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New riders on liter-class bikes are organ donors pending delivery.

I rode dirtbikes and ATV's for over a decade before I got my first bike - an '81 Honda CB900 Custom. It was a big, heavy, air-sprung, dual-range-transmission cruiser.

My second bike was a '98 Ninja 250. What the little Ninja lacked in 0-60 acceleration or comfort, it made up for in spades with excellent handling characteristics and being fun to ride.

The Ninja 250 is kinda like the Miata of the bike world - slow and a bit uncomfortable if you're tall, but easy to flick around any corner.