NPOCP: manuél 540i

"55Buick, Oversteer Scientist" (55Buick)
08/23/2014 at 16:34 • Filed to: NPOCP

So I'm going to be looking for a first car soonish, and I want to know what to look for in 1997-2003ish BMWs. Anything to be wary of?

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DISCUSSION (29)

Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa > 55Buick, Oversteer Scientist
08/23/2014 at 16:42

Having a BMW for first car is a terrible idea, those cars just make you want to misbehave.

His Stigness > 55Buick, Oversteer Scientist
08/23/2014 at 16:51

Well these cars have a few unique issues: the alternator is water cooled, and when it leaks (which it will) it will obviously fail, because water and electricity don't play nice together. It also probably fail prematurely because it will constantly be around 200 degrees, which is dumb. The valve covers on BMW's always leak. This engine has issues with VANOS (variable valve timing) which basically requires the removal of the timing chain and gears, which is something like 25 hours, and parts for that job will be very expensive. BMW says the transmission fluid is "lifetime" so only the best owners will have changed it, other people ignore it and the transmission therefore won't last as long. Same goes for the differential. Window regulators tend to go bad after 100,000 miles, and unless you do that yourself you're probably looking at around $300 per. Oh and the ignition coils go bad on these all the time, and I think they're well over $100 for the OEM ones.

So, in conclusion, unless you're a German trained techncian with a shit load of BMW specialty tools, don't buy a used BMW (or really any very used German car for that matter) as you're first car. And that advice is coming from a guy who absolutely loves German cars and bought a used German car as his first one. But I'm also a technician and specialize in these cars.

However, if you really want a German car as your first car, which you do, buy a car that's a few thousand dollars under your budget, and use those savings to fix any current issues, and the inevitable future issues. This is something almost every used German car owner does not do, and they therefore never fix their car, run it into the ground, and ruin a perfectly good car because they were stupid and didn't realize why German cars are so cheap to buy second hand.

Klaus Schmoll > His Stigness
08/23/2014 at 16:56

What do you base this wisdom on? We had 4 different E39s in the family, on still is and is approaching 200K miles. I've seen none of these issues you mentioned.

marshknute > 55Buick, Oversteer Scientist
08/23/2014 at 17:03

Anything to be wary of?

Yes. Literally everything.

If it is a mechanical or electronic component, it will almost certainly break. If it is stationary and inert like a headliner, it will fall apart regardless. That has been my experience with BMW.

I was in exactly the same boat as you for my second car, when I was debating between an E46 330 or an E39 540. I ended up going with the E46 because it was supposedly more reliable and all the E39's near me had nearly 200,000 miles. Unfortunately, EVERYTHING broke.

It originally passed its safety inspection, but in the following 7 months I had the car, the following components broke and had to be repaired: front control arm bushings, oil pan, oil gaskets, brake rotors, brake pads, brake calipers, window motor, washer fluid reservoir, washer fluid jets, heater, rear suspension coils, headliner, oxygen sensor, and gearshift.

I'm an enthusiast, too, and I understand first hand what your thought process is. But just don't do it. Cars only seem to be known for what they were when they were first released, and that image doesn't change even when it becomes run-down and unreliable 10 years down the line. The sad reality is that the once-legendary E46 and E39 have become too old and arthritic to justify their Jalop-cred. Unless you're capable of spending top tier for the absolute most expensive and well-kept 540i on the used market, you'll only live to regret it.

Cé hé sin > Klaus Schmoll
08/23/2014 at 17:08

It is Received Wisdom in America that all BMWs have endless problems and cost an absolute fortune to fix using unobtainable parts, which you need to do endlessly.

I had a 320i years ago which was neither unreliable nor expensive to repair and any parts needed were readily available but there you go.

AM3R > 55Buick, Oversteer Scientist
08/23/2014 at 17:10

Lol @ everyone saying to stay away because it's a BMW...

Get an inline 6 E39, a 528i or a 530i. The 525i is just so slow. The 6 cylinder cars are bulletproof and pretty efficient too. Not too hard to work on either.

His Stigness > Klaus Schmoll
08/23/2014 at 17:14

There are exceptions to the rule, I own an exception to the rule.

But common problems are called "common problems" because they're common. That doesn't mean every single one will have those issues, but it is pretty likely. Like the valve covers. I've seen BMW's without leaking valve covers before, but most of them leak.

It's just better to be safe than sorry. When I started looking for an E46 M3 I researched what the common problems are, and when I looked at one I found a few of those common problems. I didn't find everyone, but I will watch out for them.

Klaus Schmoll > 55Buick, Oversteer Scientist
08/23/2014 at 17:49

Don't let His Stigness put you off. He's a Merc driver so mayber there's a little bias there?

Anyway, we've had 4 different E39 in the family. My Mum still drives a 2002 530d manual wagon which is approaching 200k miles. The engines and drivetrains (in manual cars, we never had an auto) are pretty bulletproof and will run forever. Just a few days ago, I read an article about a car that had 620K miles on the clock, and was still running fine.

One problem that is clearly visible are the headlights, they tend to get water into them, the covers become blind over time and the projectors can start wobbling. OEM parts cost an arm and a leg (€1000 for a pair). The base of the rerview mirrors is made from some coated metal that tends to blister after the years. Not really a problem just looks nasty.

Test out all the electric motors! The one that moves the driver's seat forward and backwards in my mom's car is still working but sounds like it's on it's last leg. The wiper on the rear window was only working when it wanted to, but the dealer fixed that. The LCD displays tend to get black spots, and the liquid in the self-dimming mirror tends to leak. Again, something you CAN live with, just looks a bit weird. We never had the issue with the windows that Stigness mentioned. That's a common problem on MK IV Golfs.

These things tend to eat brakes. A lot! Pads and discs need replacing slightly more often than on other cars. Also, a little steering wheel wobble under hard braking is quite common as the discs tend to wear out unevenly. Once an injector failed. Easy to spot, engine runs like shit. I remember having to bring my car and the jumper cables over to start them up, but that was only on the earlier models, and was caused by the "Standheizung" (a system that uses a little heater to warm up the engine and then the whole car, can be triggered by a clock or a remote, nice factory option in colder climates). As with all high mileage cars suspension bushings wear out and get a little play. European safety inspections hav a zero tolerance policy on that so on the 620K car I mentioned earlier these had to be done 3-4 times in it's lifetime.

All in all, there are better choices for a first car, but there also are worse. It's a luxury car, and there is no such thing a cheap luxury. You will pay either way. Buy newer and pay the price, or buy when depreciation hits rock bottom and you will pay through maintenance. Unfortunately a lot of these "cheap" luxury cars end up with second, third and fourth owners who could barely afford them, but did want to look the part. Imagine what their maintenance budget was! Exactly. Zero. Those cars get worn out in record time, and once they realise that they ahve bitten off more than they can chew, get flogged off to an unsuspecting victim. Try to find a one owner car with perfect service histors that was driven by a dentist's wife or something.

With E39s I'd recommend a later car after the facelift, not only do they look better, but also did BMW have enough time to kill a few niggles here and there.

I love E39s, to me they are the pinnacle of the 5 series, yet I drive a Honda. For good reason. I have a solid promotion and pay raise coming soon, so this might change. But for now, the Honda is a good car.

Ask yourself, what do you want from a first car? Show-off potential and bragging rights or trouble-free motoring.

Klaus Schmoll > His Stigness
08/23/2014 at 17:53

You have an autotragic 230 c-class with a large AMG badge on the windshield which you like to call a sports car. When did that become an E39? And the window motor issue? That's MK 4 golf territory. So my guess was that you were throwing ALL German cars in one bin. That's why I asked.

Klaus Schmoll > Cé hé sin
08/23/2014 at 17:56

That's why I asked him. My guess is that he was just giving him a medley a forum rants (and from different German cars for that matter.) Read my reply to 55Buick. I thought that giving him actual insight might be better than just some "internet wisdom".

His Stigness > Klaus Schmoll
08/23/2014 at 18:06

No the problems I told him were ones I've seen as an ASE CERTIFIED MASTER TECHNICIAN. There are probably a lot more issues rattled off in the forums, and I even forgot a few that I've seen on pretty much every E39 I've driven or worked on, like the instrument cluster lcd and the headlights.

You also reinforced my point to him about people buying these cars, getting their first service bill, and then ruining them.

I love German cars, I won German cars, and I WORK on German cars, I know what I'm talking about, and I speak from experience, as you do (with the E39). Don't try and discredit what I have to say to others became you're a BMW fanboy and don't like me or Mercedes.

His Stigness > Cé hé sin
08/23/2014 at 18:14

As I told Klaus, what I said was not the routine "Oh em gee German cars are horrible and sooooooo expensive to fix." But in fact was said from personal experience as I'm an ASE certified Master Technician and Volkswagen certified factory technician. Everything I mentioned was stuff I have experienced personally either from driving or working on an E39.

Collin > 55Buick, Oversteer Scientist
08/23/2014 at 18:16

I currently own a 540i with a 6MT and the M-sport pack just like you're interested in, and it's been a great car. My only recommendation is that you spend closer to $5000 and get a car with closer to 100,000 miles. Try to find a car that's owned by a professional (banker, doctor, lawyer, etc.) who has gotten all the maintenance done at a dealership and has the records for it.

Also, more maintenance work already done is better than lower miles. For example, a car with 98,000 miles and the timing chain not replaced yet may be a worse choice than a car with 125,000 miles but with the timing chain already replaced. Changing the transmission fluid is pretty easy with a cheap pump from Harbor Freight and a YouTube video to show you what to do.

Buy a car like this as your first car and then commit to doing all the maintenance and repairs yourself. It's all simple and straightforward with the help of YouTube, and it's a good excuse to start buying tools too. Before you know it, you'll have critical skills that nobody else does because you've been doing your own repairs.

Klaus Schmoll > His Stigness
08/23/2014 at 18:22

No disrespect here. I was just worried that you might be regurgitating the usual internet babble. Glad to see that you are not.

And while I may tend more to the BMW side, I have tons of respect for older Mercs. I lived close to Stuttgart for over a decade, and have been to the Mercedes Arena to see VfB Stuttgart beat my beloved guys from Bavaria Munich, just to name an example (probably a badly chosen one). Anyways, they know how to build a luxury cruiser, and still are considered the benchmark in that field.

His Stigness > Klaus Schmoll
08/23/2014 at 18:41

Trust me, I would never regurgitate the stupid bullshit off of the forums. When it comes to automotive advice I only speak from personal experience. I would never recommend a car that I wouldn't want to own, that's why I don't recommend Japanese or American crap, because they suck to drive and own.

However, I do prefer Mercedes to BMW (and Audi), but that's only because Mercedes makes cars that have qualities I like; I just prefer a car that has luxury first, and sport second. And I've only decided this after driving (I think) every single brand sold in the US.

And on my own car: the automatic does drive me nuts a lot of the time, and if I could have found a perfect example (like mine) with a manual, I would have gotten it, but you and I both know that here in the US most people don't spec a manual. At least not in luxury cars that is.

Klaus Schmoll > His Stigness
08/23/2014 at 19:00

That's the thing when you buy used: You not so much buy the car, you buy what the POs have done to it. Especially when your are on a budget, you have to pull the trigger on a good car even if it isn't the perfect match of colour/engine/trans/whatever you desire. That's what I tried to tell Buick at the end of my comment.

It's how I ended up with the Honda. It was in the general category I was looking at, and it was a one owner (elderly person) car with perfect service history and rather low mileage at a very reasonable price. It would have like another colour and the bigger engine, but hey, it's been dead on reliable. A pay rise is around the corner, so I can either do what I always do and drive it till it's dead, while saving some money, or get something nicer and sell it with little to no depreciation.

That little fucker is growing on me, so me I'll just drive it until the end and then get something fancy with the money saved. But it being what it is this might take a while...

DipodomysDeserti > Cé hé sin
08/23/2014 at 19:46

I am the current owner of a low mileage 335d. It's already broken several expensive parts, and everything for it costs much more than any of the other vehicle I've owned (3 Subarus, 2 Hondas, a scion, and a Ranger). It would have been a terrible first car. I replaced all of the engine seals, timing belt, and axles in one of my Subarus for what BMW charges for an oil change... Luckily I do my own work.

His Stigness > Klaus Schmoll
08/23/2014 at 22:05

I got really lucky with my car, it only had two owners before me, and they took exceptional care. There were tons of records from even the first owner, which I love. And before I became a mechanic I took it in to the same shop where the PO went before, and they told me the whole history on it. Plus, I actually became friends with the PO so that was really cool, and he actually gave me a job when I needed one. I hope I get that lucky with my next car.

n54 & s38 > AM3R
08/25/2014 at 16:07

Avoid the E39 V8 models. Inline sixes are a better choice. Way fewer potential engine problems. Better steering too - the 6 cylinders have rack & pinion steering vs the recirculating ball steering setup found in the 540i and M5

AM3R > n54 & s38
08/25/2014 at 20:06

Only V8 E39 I want is an M5. If I'm going to be dealing with worse gas mileage and slightly higher maintenance it might as well be in an M5!

I still want a 530i.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa
08/30/2014 at 12:43

No it's not.

- BMW for first car

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > His Stigness
08/30/2014 at 12:45

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard this.

Yet there's many happy owners with very few problems. Point is, if it was maintained well, it should be fine. Is it more expensive to fix than a Camry? Of fucking course. Why don't we all just drive those then. This was easily one of the finest cars in the world when it was new, and for rather a good price. E39s really aren't that complex either, if you can turn a wrench you can figure it out.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Cé hé sin
08/30/2014 at 12:47

It's the Jalopnik Rule of BMW - every car they currently make is shit, and (x generation) ago was much better. They're all too heavy, even when they're light. They're all unreliable, even when they're bulletproof. Every part is impossible to find and will cost you your firstborn in a satanic ritual. They are impossible to fix, as BMW purposely makes sure every car they make is unrepairable. Everyone wants to pretend to want one, and then trash-talks them every chance they get.

Really gets old.

His Stigness > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/30/2014 at 15:49

As a Master Technician who specializes in these cars, I can say that these cars are no more complicated than Japanese and American cars. In fact, I'd argue they are easier to work on, if you know what you're doing and you're intelligent that is.

And I wasn't advocating buying a Camry, I would never do that, I hate those goddamn things. What I was saying was be prepared, because most older German cars are not properly maintained because people can't afford them, so the third and fourth owner suffer even more. I know from personal experience how much it costs to maintain an older German car, and if I weren't a mechanic I either couldn't afford to maintain it, or it would. Be incredibly draining. But, this is also true for other older makes as well, it's just that a Honda or Toyota can drive just fine with every rubber bushing broken, and every seal leaking, but German cars don't take kindly to lack of maintenance.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > His Stigness
08/30/2014 at 16:24

Fair points. I've had lots of friends/family with E39s, only one had a head gasket failure and that's cause it had an unbelievable number of miles on it and it was beat on by a high school kid for a few years.

You're right that German cars don't handle broken parts very well...Japanese cars and even American cars can seemingly "work" fine with half of their cumulative parts missing or broken. A German car cannot. For some reason I find that slightly intriguing.

His Stigness > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/30/2014 at 17:40

German cars are precision engineered (I love how everyone says that. That, and "over-engineered"), and it's because of those tight tolerances, they don't like it when stuff is way out of wack. Take my bosses 540 for example. It runs fine, but the CEL is on because the VANOS is absolutely perfect, but I can't tell any difference when driving it. That right there is a perfect example.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > His Stigness
08/30/2014 at 17:55

Yeah, in their minds, there is no such thing as "not perfection"...when they try to comprehend how a car works, they can't understand why you'd want it to be anything less than perfect.

His Stigness > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/30/2014 at 18:20

Yup! And it's actually because of that why I like owning German cars, and while I'll only own German made cars. The Japanese may make more reliable cars, but when something does go wrong, it will be such a pain in the ass to fix it.

When I work on German cars, I never struggle, I never swear, I never have a problem. When I work on American or Japanese cars though, that's all I do, and I hate it!

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > His Stigness
08/30/2014 at 23:44

Same here. I think I will be pretty much German for life, or at least have one in the stable.