A story about Porsche maintainence costs

"burglar can't heart click anything" (burglar)
08/12/2014 at 17:40 • Filed to: None

The first thing that comes to mind when people think of Porsche ownership is usually maintenance costs. While in some cases this may be very true, it's not necessarily always the case. Here's a little story I'd like to share.

It's no secret my 1984 911 STR build has been done on a budget. Projects like my !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! are a testament to that. But I'm also not opposed to spending money for the good stuff where it counts. Take my !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , for example.

In competition, I'm reaching a wall with the car. I'm having problems putting power down coming out of corners, and I'm having to drive around instability on deceleration. I'm thinking about spending the money to put a Limited Slip Differential, or LSD in the car. An LSD can be set up to lock up to a degree under both power and deceleration, which would help with both of those problems.

This will be by far the largest expenditure in the project so far. Not only is a quality LSD unit expensive, it needs to be installed, too. That's where our story begins.

On most RWD cars, the diff sits in a pumpkin in the back and is relatively easy to access. The 911, of course, has a transaxle mounted between the seats. So it's more like a fwd car in that the whole transmission needs to be removed to install an aftermarket differential. I think I can handle that part. What gets over my head quickly is the install itself. Ring and pinion setup isn't total rocket science, but it is to me. The pinion depth, gear lash, and preload on the side bearings has to be all just right or you'll have a noisy transmission and possibly wear out your R&P and bearings very quickly. That would be expensive.

Photo: PelicanParts.com

Here's an !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , which solidified that it was something that I should have done professionally.

Disclaimer: I fully understand that hourly rate for a regular mechanic is up in the $80-$100/hr range these days. I think that's fair, too. I understand that's not just hourly labor rate, but also overhead and amortization for all the specialty tools and training a mechanic needs.

I also understand that a mechanic with intimate specialized knowledge of a 30 year old classic car is darn near priceless, and well worth a higher hourly rate. I'm not looking for a $200 install here.

So I did what anyone else would do - Googled "Porsche mechanic" and blasted out a bunch of emails:

Do you guys still have the tools / procedure to install an LSD in an otherwise good condition 915 transmission? I'm thinking about picking up an aftermarket unit and looks like setting pinion depth / lash / preload is beyond my ability.

I would be bringing in just a bare transmission. I know it's hard to give a quote, but any idea of about how many hours of job time this would be? I'd like to know how many pennies I need to shake out of my ceramic pig.

Thanks,

Matt

I chose my words carefully. I wanted to present myself as knowing at least a little what I was talking about, even if all I really knew was what I read in the link above. One of my responses came from Bob at what will remain an unnamed Porsche shop:

Matt,

Yes, we could do this for you. I would budget $500 labor. I would also suggest/budget new diff carrier bearings/output bearings, a set of bolts and tabs for bolting lsd to the ring gear and possible shims. Budget for additional parts would be app $700. Let me know what you would like to do.

Bob

$500 for labor sounds more than fair to me. If I bring in a bare transmission, that translates to maybe 4 hours at $125/hr. To pull the side cover, replace the bearings, install the diff, and set the spacing seems totally reasonable. BUT CHECK OUT THAT PARTS VALUE. Wha-wha-wha?

$700? For some bearings, bolts, and shims? Ok, breathe. And behold the power of the internet. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is a pretty awesome parts website, interactive, easy to look stuff up, and good prices if the shipping sometimes is a little rough. It took me two minutes to find that the diff bearings are 32010X bearings, which are off the shelf units also used in Honda and VW cars that !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! depending on brand.

Ok, so $50 for bearings, maybe $30 for a set of ring gear bolts, and a few shim washers that can't cost more than a few dollars each. I'll even allow $100 for misc sealants or gaskets or something that might need to be in there - and that's being generous. That's $200 in parts, at the most. But $700? I had to ask:

Bob,
That's a little bit of sticker shock on parts - !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! look like they're about $50/pair, can't imagine ring gear bolts and shims being all that bad.
I know you never know until you get in there, but is that $700 estimate a worst case scenario, like if my race bores are jacked or if the pinion is out of whack?

Again, I chose my words carefully. I wanted to tip my hand that I still knew at least a little, and also give Bob an out to explain himself and/or backpedal. It's totally possible that there is something about installing a differential in a 915 that I am unaware of.

It took a few days, but today I got a response from Bob:

Matt,

I am sorry for the delay in responding. Based on our present workload, this is not a job we are able to take on.

THank you for the inquiry,

Bob

BWAHAHAHAHA! Nice try Bob.

I don't want to be a cynical person. I really don't. But I can't help but feel that Bob is one of those people who preys on the uninformed. I could be wrong. But I doubt it. I'm sure that there have been many, many Porsche owners who simply take an estimate like that and accept it as "well, it's a Porsche, it should be expensive to maintain." Maybe even that's how such a reputation develops.

What Bob doesn't understand is that he is bad for the legacy of the car. How many people brought their pride and joy 911 in for a little work and got an artificially high estimate? And how many people sold their cars right after that thinking they cost too much? Shame on you Bob, and all the Bobs like you out there.

I browsed 911 ads for years before buying my car. One of the sales points that comes up often is something along the lines of "Over $7000 is receipts for recent maintenance!" The numbers on those totals often seemed a little high to me, almost regardless of what was done. Maybe now I understand why.

Since you're probably a little upset after reading this (I know I am after typing it) here's a puppy to help calm you down.

Slightly edited from my original version at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

DISCUSSION (12)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > burglar can't heart click anything
08/12/2014 at 18:09

Oh how I love the 915. A challenging trans to drive to the uneducated newbie Porsche driver(ME!). Had I not driven one before this I would have said "go get the hydraulic G50 trans and LSD, because it's better!", but no. The 915 is a tried and true transmission, with a history in racing, hindered and pushed to it's limits only by the ever increasing displacements of the 911s of that era. But a very fun and unique-shifting trans non the less.

I love the stereotypical mantra of German cars to; It's a Porsche, BMW, or something, it must be expensive! Not really, but it depends on what work is being done. Having a good relationship with you, your mechanic(s) and your car is very crucial when you need something done.

This article doesn't upset me at all because I hear this stuff all the time haha! Nice read though, that's for sure. :)

BTW, year of car please? :)

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > burglar can't heart click anything
08/12/2014 at 18:10

Where's my puppy? I WAS PROMISED A PUPPY!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback
08/12/2014 at 18:15

Kinja's acting up today, something about those Gawker gifs going crazy and burner accounts and stuff.

burglar can't heart click anything > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback
08/12/2014 at 18:19

Kinja is amazing! Fixed, maybe?

burglar can't heart click anything > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/12/2014 at 18:20

1984. 1st year of Motronic, 1st year of the 3.2L.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > burglar can't heart click anything
08/12/2014 at 18:59

3.2L is an awesome motor. How does Motronic compare to the CIS of the earlier cars?

burglar can't heart click anything > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/12/2014 at 19:15

Don't know. It just seems to work, where cis people seem to be rebuilding warm up regulators and stuff often.

Plus you can chip it.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
08/12/2014 at 20:32

I know, I was making a funny.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > burglar can't heart click anything
08/12/2014 at 22:58

I always fear that I will turn into a "bob" like in your story. But I don't think that will happen, my prices are expensive but they're not artificially inflated. Just today quoted job X at 3 hours because book time. Finished it in 15 minutes because experience and special tools. Charged 15 minutes.

burglar can't heart click anything > AMGtech - now with more recalls!
08/12/2014 at 23:14

Good guy tech.

I diy most things. My rule of thumb is take however long I expect it will take, multiply by two, then add two hours.

If I had to work by book times I would be fired halfway through day 1.

Again, a good, honest, knowledgeable tech is worth any price. A crook like Bob gives others a bad name.

1337HPMustang > burglar can't heart click anything
08/13/2014 at 11:08

First off, your purple car is ace. I grew up playing NFS Porsche and I'm pretty sure I had a 3.2 just like yours for the longest time because those cars (especially the 930) really are the most beautiful 911s ever made.

Second, I feel for you over the fact you have to rely on specialized porsche mechanics but to be honest I don't think those "analog" 80s cars need them. If I were you, I'd give a run of the mill, though competent, mechanic a chance at the tranny swap. What could be so different from a fwd car ;P

burglar can't heart click anything > 1337HPMustang
08/13/2014 at 11:13

Thanks! A 911 was a longtime dream of mine. I got really lucky to jump in when I did, with the way prices have gone I could not do it today.

It's not the transmission swap that scares me - I plan on pulling it out myself. My concern is the setting of the gear lash and bearing preload. While I'm sure a regular transmission shop could do it at $100/hr, I'd rather just pay $125/hr for an expert on that particular trans to do it. Seems worth it.