Am I the only one...

"PushToStart" (pushtostart)
08/10/2014 at 15:23 • Filed to: Ferrari California

Who thinks the last generation Ferrari California is a genuinely good looking car?

I'm not saying I particularly want one, especially over a 458, but I see articles and hear people that say how "ugly" it is... It looks a hell of a lot better than the new California T, that's for sure... (Although, admittedly, the California T is apparently an otherwise superior car.)

DISCUSSION (36)

All Motor Is Best Motor > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 15:25

I've never thought of it ugly, and truth be told it has grown on me since it came out. I think it's one of the better looking Ferraris in quite some time.

Nibby > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 15:27

Mazda levels of derp.

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 15:27

brother!

I think it looks great. Would gladly have either. Probably more so the Jaaaag however.

PushToStart > Nibby
08/10/2014 at 15:28

It's just happy to be alive.

Vi517, JDX Racing > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 15:30

I like the looks of it, but admittedly it looks pedestrian. I can't quite think of what car it resembles most, but it seems like it has design cues from every other sports car.

McChiken116 - Patrick H. > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 15:37

It falls apart for me just behind the doors

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 15:38

Certainly isn't ugly but I don't really like the design either. Not a fan of any recent ferrari's styling other than laferrari.

PushToStart > nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul
08/10/2014 at 15:38

I think I'd have the Jag as well. A little more hardcore, and a better sports car.

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 15:40

I like how the new one looks better.

This would be my perfect California:

1. Fixed hard top to save weight

2. Looks from new car

3. V8 from the 458

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 15:44

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 15:45

I'm surprised how well the first gen cars are holding their value. They're not very fast or universally loved like the 458. I just did a search and no cheap California's out there to buy in my neck of the woods

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 15:57

I actually like it better than the new one

Conan > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 16:27

My girlfriend loves them. Me? Not nearly so much.

PushToStart > Manuél Ferrari
08/10/2014 at 16:44

I like the folding metal roof, it pulls it off better than the 458 Spider if you ask me. It flows better.

The new front end is awful! The old one is 500 times better to me.

And I agree, I'd like the 458 V8, but I'd deal with the California V8 if I got one of the rare going-to-be-desired Manual transmission California's.

PushToStart > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
08/10/2014 at 16:44

same here.

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 16:50

I really like everything in front of the A pillar, but behind... Bleh!

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 17:03

Actually my ideal California would have the old front end and the new rear end. That would be sweet!

Speaking of F cars look what I just picked up. I have it for the next week while my dad is gone.

Look at the mileage. It will hit 25K soon. Surely it will catch fire soon...

PushToStart > Manuél Ferrari
08/10/2014 at 17:30

old front and new rear end, that would be good.

And nice! Is that a 430?

PushToStart > Tim (Fractal Footwork)
08/10/2014 at 17:31

huh, I quite like all of the lines down the body work, but I guess it's not for everyone

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 17:35

I guess I'm just upset over the folding hardtop, all folding hardtops for that matter; the designers never seem to get the back roof line correct (for me at least).

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 17:47

Yeah it's a first model year F430 Spider with F1. Which means it will surely implode soon!

My dad has already had to fix a problem with F1. It drove him crazy. But he thinks he got it right finally. Hopefully he is right or else I'll get stranded like he did twice...

PushToStart > Tim (Fractal Footwork)
08/10/2014 at 18:11

I agree, sometimes folding hardtops really mess the shape up, but I thought the California pulled it off really well.

PushToStart > Manuél Ferrari
08/10/2014 at 18:14

It might implode, it might explode, it'll be a surprise as to which happens!

Yeah, not surprised about the F1 problems, those early ones (355, 550/575, 612, 430, etc) apparently had some gremlins with overheating and breaking and such. Hopefully you don't get stranded, that just looks bad, lol.

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 18:20

With the top down though...

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 19:09

What's crazy is Ferrari should have had it down by the F430 since it had the last iteration of the single clutch design. Those designs are just problematic. But then again their DCT F1 in the 458 hasn't had a good track record either :/ It has fully broken and needed replacing outside of warranty for some owners.

You gotta help me decide what to buy myself. F430 or second gen Gallardo? I like Ferraris better but the Lambo is the more reliable car.

What I really want is a 458 but it's too much monies. I'll be taking on massive debt just to get an F430 or Gallardo

PushToStart > Manuél Ferrari
08/10/2014 at 19:37

Personally, I'd say the F430. The Gallardo would probably also be a decent car, but the four wheel drive system would probably get irritating as it would cause understeer when doing spirited driving.

Manual on both cars would be the best choice, in my opinion, (MMMM GATED MANUALS) but it'll obviously be more difficult to find. If you went with flappy paddles, get the Ferrari. While they both aren't going to be as good as the current gen cars (458 and Huracan), I've heard bad things about the Lambo single clutch paddle gearboxes. The Ferrari's would be all around better, although still kind of "meh" in some situations.

But on the other hand, as personal advice, I wouldn't go into massive debt to buy a (likely unreliable) super car. Having to do or pay for upkeep and maintenance would be a nightmare, just wait a bit until it's more reasonable for you. While I don't think either one of those cars will depreciate significantly from where they are now (maybe the Lamborghini will), I seriously doubt over the next several years that they'll appreciate enough that they'll become totally unobtainable. Just my 2 cents though, lol

TLDR- Ferrari, but don't financially wreck yourself.

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 19:40

I'm gonna reply from my laptop in a min. In the mean time check out my Doug-style pics I just took.

I could totally DD a Ferrari, because I don't get much when I go grocery shopping!

PushToStart > Manuél Ferrari
08/10/2014 at 19:42

lol #DougLyfe

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 20:44

All good input. I'll provide some related info that I gathered from test drives and forum searching:

1. The second gen AWD Gallardo is supposed to understeer less than the 1st gen car. Even the 2006-2008 cars are supposed to be better than the 2004-2005 cars.

2. There are some 2009-2014 cars that came RWD. Not only the Balboni, but also some regular ones. Also I've read that it's very simple and straight forward to convert the AWD car to RWD. It doesn't require modifying software.

3. I test drove a manual 2004 Gallardo and a manual 2006 F430. Very small sample size but I'll share my observations anyhow - I liked the Gallardo's manual a lot better. The clutch and shifting movement was better. The F430's entire manual experience was disappointing. But that car seems to have been abused by the owner, so it may not be a good example.

4. I have not driven an E Gear Gallardo yet. I have driven F1 a lot because my Dad has it. I know this is going to sound terrible but I kind of like F1 even more than a gated shifter. F1 is still engaging as you need to drive it like a stick for it to be smooth. And it gives you the best noises because even an expert at heal toe can't get the F430 stick to sound like the F1 car does (I checked by looking at videos on YouTube - the car just won't make the same engine noises if you manually rev match your shifts). And while I wouldn't DD an exotic I wouldn't only drive it on pleasure cruises. I would use it for real life situations on some days. F1 kind of comes in handy if you pick up a coffee or food as you can use one hand to hold your food to avoid it going all over the Daytona's.

I've read (but not verified) that E Gear in the 2nd gen Gallardo is much more reliable (and smoother) than E Gear in the 1st gen car. It's also much harder to find 2nd gen stick shift cars. I really want a spider and it's next to impossible to find a stick shift 2nd gen Gallardo spyder. I have only ever seen one - and it was $240K because it's a Spyder Performante. That's a lot of scratch for a Gallardo when you could get a 458 for that...

Also from a pure driving perspective paddles do seem better suited to these insanely fast revving modern Italian engines. It's fun to put the car in race mode and snap off violent shifts at redline. The stick was perfect in prior Italian cars as it was the best transmission you could get. But when you drive both types of F430 transmissions you really get the feeling that Ferrari spent a lot of time tuning F1 and very little time on the stick. (Ok I'll stop talking about it now as I'm going to get in trouble for not saying the gated shifter is the be all end all...).

5, Debit - you're totally right. But I have a disease. I want a modern, mid-engine, Italian exotic pronto. I just can't help myself. I need therapy... And your guess on the depreciation is probably correct - everything I've read and heard from talking to people says that common Ferraris hold their value better than common Lambos. For a Lambo to hold its value well or appreciate it needs to be rare car. The Gallardo had such a long run that even the special editions probably won't do that good. A red on tan F430 won't really lose any value at this point if you don't drive it. It will only lose value based on how many miles you put on it. And a stick shift car could one day go up in value. The Scud is already starting to appreciate a bit.

PushToStart > Manuél Ferrari
08/10/2014 at 21:00

Didn't know that bit on AWD to RWD conversion for the Lamborghini, that's very interesting. And I figured and RWD Gallardos would be considerably more expensive because of their assumed notation as some sort of Special Edition.

And I never would've guessed the Lamborghini's manual to be better than the Ferrari, what you say about factory refinement on the different transmissions might absolutely be true.

I'd say just drive several of each car with the different trans options. You're bound to find at least one you like.

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
08/10/2014 at 21:13

I've been researching this stuff for 3 years now, haha. I'm addicted to FChat and 6speedonline.

The RWD Gallardo did start out with the Balboni Edition. But then Lambo started offering it in the standard 550-2 to keep sales up since the Gallardo was so long in the tooth.

The only bummer about the Gallardo manual is that the pedals are close together. But not a big deal if you're not wearing super wide shoes. And if you are you could always take your left shoe off, haha.

Good advice - I do need to drive the 2nd gen E Gear car. I would drive the 2nd gen stick too but they're so hard to find.

I would also like to drive a Scud to experience the absolute last iteration of the single clutch F1. I heard it breaks your back, which I would find fun since I don't have back problems.

Other main differences between the cars that I've noticed:

1. The F430 has a much nicer ride than the Gallardo. But the Gallardo didn't seem as bad as people make it out to be, at least on the short test drive I went on. On that short drive the Gallardo didn't seem any worse than my base 997.2 C2 (no PASM). It may have actually seemed a little more supple than my Porsche.

2. The Gallardo has the more modern amenities. You can get one with a back up camera, which is helpful since these cars don't have great rear visibility.

3. The fit and finish on the Gallardo seems better than the F430. Ferrari didn't seem to match it until the 458.

4. The F430 feels more "special" than the Gallardo. I dunno if it's because of Audi's influence makes the Gallardo feel a bit German, or if that's just in my head. The prancing horse is a bit ingrained in my head because my old man has two of them. Also Ferraris seem a bit classier as Lambos kind of have that Jersey Shore vibe to them...

5. The F430 does seem inherently finicky. I guess that's what goes with it being 100% Italian, haha. My Dad had the F1 issue and I have yet to test drive an F430 that didn't have an issue! The local 6MT car that I test drove had an E Diff issue that the third party dealer had to have Ferrari look at after a third party Ferrari service shop failed to fix it. And when I was test driving a 4000 mile F430 F1 on Friday the car had unintended acceleration! It wasn't the floor mat, I checked. I was driving straight and let off the gas and it kept accelerating. I had to give it a lot of brake to get it to slow down. I pulled over, freaked out, and gave it back to the dealer to drive back to his place. And of course the problem went away so he didn't experience it himself. Seems like the 458 is more reliable than the F430 overall. Which is probably why it's still expensive to get a first or second year 458...

PushToStart > Manuél Ferrari
08/10/2014 at 21:37

About the uninttended acceleration, did you accidentally switch on cruise control? That might've been why, but that's pretty freaky shit...

Yeah, the Ferrari says "Look at me", but the Lamborghini stands in it's front yard, naked, with a megaphone and screams it. Subtlety isn't either of their strong suits.

And as far as comfort, I'd be very surprised if the Gallardo was significantly better or worse than the F430, I'd assume they'd both be relatively hard, it just depends on the road surface and how you're driving it. You mentioned you wanted a spider, is that just for the Lamborghini or does that apply to the Ferrari as well?

Manuél Ferrari > PushToStart
08/11/2014 at 01:38

No it couldn't have been cruise control because pressing the brakes didn't stop it! The car wanted to keep going! When I pulled over I smelled clutch.

Haha so true, the Ferrari is almost discreet compared to a Lambo!

The main reason the F430 is so much softer over poor roads than the Gallardo is the magnetic dampers. They are standard on the F439 and not an option on the Gallardo. They are standard on the R8 and finally an option on the new Lambo.

I prefer spider for both dueto the sounds. Not going to track the car. Nothing better on the road than hearing a screaming Italian engine right behind your head!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PushToStart
08/11/2014 at 12:26

Yes.

PushToStart > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/11/2014 at 12:49

Seems pretty split honestly, some like it, some don't, some like part of it.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PushToStart
08/11/2014 at 13:00

Well, I'm glad you're not alone, I guess.