Question for Oppo. Especially car sales guys or people who were or know about that stuff.

"VincentMalamute-Kim" (VincentMalamute-Kim) 08/06/2014 at 21:40 • Filed to: None

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My friend ordered a 2015 Acura MDX a few weeks ago, much like the one pictured here:

He also wanted a towing package and a few other options which he was told are all dealer installed after the car arrives. He gave them $500 for a down payment. They told him that his car arrived last week and faxed him the sales contract. He did not sign it then. He had wanted to wait until the car had arrived and the options were installed by the dealer so he could make one trip to sign the contract and drive off with the car without having to make a return trip to have his options installed. The sales guy was OK with this arrangement.

Via email he and the sales guy were trying to arrange a mutually convenient day for him to pick it up. Today the sales guy tells him that the car is no longer there. Acura had sent a trailer and picked up the car to return to the factory. Acura did not give him or the dealership a reason for taking back the car. Also, the sales guy had not had the dealer options installed during the week they had the car.

I told my friend that most likely the sales guy screwed you and sold the car to someone else who offered more money and was willing to sign the contract right then. Legally the sales guy did nothing wrong since my friend hadn't yet signed the contract. But I think that's a shitty thing to do. Unethical too. If you have to lie and make up a story (as I believe the sales guy did) that tells you that what you did was wrong.

Question 1: Does the factory ever take back a brand new car after they delivered it 1 week ago? And without giving a reason to the dealer, never mind the customer? Could the sales guy be telling the truth?

Question 2: Assuming as I do that the sales guy sold the car to someone else, is that a shitty thing to do to a paying customer? Even if what he did is legal since it wasn't Bob's car since he had not signed the contract.

scoob > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 21:44

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#AutomatchBait

#TomMcParlandBait

I don't have anything useful to say as I too, would like to know the answers.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 21:47

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I know for sure this would NEVER happen where I live, but I guess it's different from country to country. I know for sure I'd never buy anything from that dealer, I'd never buy a car without having a few hours behind the wheel.

hike > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 21:58

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Did he get the VIN of the car he was supposed to get that got "sent back"? If he did, he could, in theory, run a Carfax on it which would show the vehicle being sold. The whole thing sounds pretty sketch though.

VincentMalamute-Kim > scoob 08/06/2014 at 22:00

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ah, thanks for the hashtags. I knew there were expert dealer guys here but I don't have the time to hang out here enough to know their names off the top of my head.

Firewrx234 > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 22:03

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Ok to clear things up:

1) Not typical to go back to factory, if it did the dealer would know why (I.e. Wrecked coming off the transporter) but is possible

2) it is shitty if that happened, but like you said, no contract signed :/ technically, the dealer has the right either way. Not a good practice but they could have.

scoob > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 22:03

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Hehe I was kidding about the hashtags. They don't actually work, on Kinja but those names I mentioned are the same person. He runs this sub-blog ; maybe you can comment on one of his own articles or comments and he'll get back to you.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 08/06/2014 at 22:06

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Well, my friend did spend some time behind the wheel of the demonstrator. Obviously no time driving this car. It's for his wife so she was the one who needed to be happy driving it.

I hadn't heard of the advice to spend a few hours behind the wheel of the specific actual car that you're buying. I assume that's what you're saying? I suppose that might make sense - find out if there are any defects from the factory and have the dealer fix them before you sign the contract and hand over the money?

Yeah, I hadn't heard of this happening before. If it's something that does happen or is legit, I figured I still would have read about it on the forums from people who were disappointed at having "their" car taken back. That dealer is the only Acura dealer in the Milwaukee area. I told my friend to buy the car from the Libertyville, IL dealer, the next closest.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 22:11

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I guess this is the difference between Europe and the US. We ALWAYS get to test drive a car that's similar to what we're about to buy. We'd also get the opportunity to testdrive the car we're going to buy. As for spending a few hours behind the wheel of the ACTUAL CAR, well.. we tend to be able to do that as well.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Firewrx234 08/06/2014 at 22:12

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Wasn't wrecked or had any known obvious defects since the sales guy called my friend to tell him that his car had arrived and when could he come pick it up?

So far the internet opinion seems to supports my sense the dealer did something not nice (but not illegal).

VincentMalamute-Kim > hike 08/06/2014 at 22:12

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ooh good thought! I wonder if the VIN would be on the contract? I'll call him and see.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 08/06/2014 at 22:17

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Sure people drive demonstrators and similar cars to what they want to buy here too. I've even heard of dealers loaning demonstrators to potential customers for the weekend or even a week to test (obviously good customers and the luxury brands). But, in the US, I hadn't heard of people test driving the actual car they're buying before they hand over the cash. Maybe I don't know these things and others can inform me.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 22:20

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I think it's my lack of grasp of the English language that's causing problems here. But more often than not we DO have the oportunity to have a few hours behind the wheel of a car thats identical to the car we're about to buy.

E92M3 > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 22:21

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I think they had a customer onsite that saw it, and wanted the color and there were no others in stock.

Same thing happened to us once (With an Acura TL) except we saw the car In person, drove it, and they finally met our price the next day over the phone. When we went to pickup the car and do the paperwork they tried to swap cars on us. Told us it was getting detailed in the back, and once we were finished they pulled the same color TL around but with a grey interior instead of black. The salesman insisted it was the same exact car we drove the day before, but it really pissed me off he insulted my intelligence thinking I wouldn't A: remember what I drove the day before, and B: would accept grey instead of black. I hate grey interiors, and I would never buy a car with one. I got pretty irrate and loud. They finally ripped up the contract and agreed to get the car I wanted from another dealer at a discount from our previously negotiated price after I threatened to leave bad reviews all over the web about my experience. I will never buy a car from that place because I asked them to admit what they were doing and they inisted I was the one that was wrong. Had they owned up to it I wouldn't have been as mad. I'm sure that tactic works on some people though. Some people don't even know what color they want walking in.

JCAlan > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 22:23

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1. Never ever heard of that being done. The factory no longer owns the cars once they're in transit, the dealer does. Bought and paid for. The factory can no more come and take them away as you can, they simply don't own them. Any repairs, recalls, transit damage, etc gets done at the dealership. They never go back to the factory for any reason.

2. Yes. Although I doubt they simply sold it to a higher bidder. You don't exactly usually negotiate on an ordered unit. So finding someone willing to pay more for a car than the guy that ordered it, put money down on it already, and has been waiting for weeks or months for it to arrive is unlikely.

My guess is it got sold accidentally as an honest mistake. Something like: car came in on the guy's day off, it didn't get marked sold, someone else sold it or dealer traded it. Problem is, as soon as they lied about what happened, it is no longer an honest mistake, it's a lie. I would get my 500 bucks back and go somewhere else.

Source: An entire adult life spent in the car business

Tom McParland > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 22:42

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Ok, I really gotta check Oppo more often. To answer your questions 1) Acura could have taken the car back, but in the numerous deals I have brokered or attempted to close I have never heard of that happening. 2) It is likely that the car was sold to someone else who came into the dealership that day, very likely was willing to pay more for the car. This is not illegal but was a dick move.

VincentMalamute-Kim > E92M3 08/06/2014 at 22:46

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Your dealer really was insulting. I told my friend the same thing - it's not necessarily the mistake that pisses you off so much. It's lying or insulting you that really sends people over the edge. This happens with medical mistakes. Mistakes happen but the attitude of the doctor about the mistake (i.e. honesty) makes patients less likely to sue.

Funny it was also an Acura.

VincentMalamute-Kim > JCAlan 08/06/2014 at 22:51

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1. ah - thanks for that factoid - didn't know that.

2. When I bought my Audi, yes it was ordered with the specific options and the order was locked in - it was made for me (I signed a contract though). Acura (and the Japanese makers) are different. They don't have many options. It was a choice of AWD or FWD and 3 trim levels and a couple of tech packages. The few other options are dealer installed. So it really wasn't strictly made for my friend like the Audi was made for me and I waited months

Nevertheless I guess it is possible that it was an honest mistake

VincentMalamute-Kim > Tom McParland 08/06/2014 at 22:53

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Thanks Tom. I appreciate your response given your experience. BTW, where are you located? Or can you do your consulting/negotiating services by phone or email? I don't often buy new cars but if I do, I'd like to keep you in mind. I'm a lousy negotiator.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 08/06/2014 at 22:56

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It sounds like it's similar in Europe and the US. We do test drive similar cars, not the actual specific car usually.

With a handle like Laird Andy McBratlie, English isn't your first language?

Tom McParland > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 22:58

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I'm located in NJ, but I have brokered deals all over the country.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 23:00

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English is far from my first language, I'd say it's my third. Usually I'm fluent, but I'm drunk now, and that'll make things worse. My first language is Norwegian, Swedish is my second, English = third language.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 08/06/2014 at 23:01

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ha! I was thinking you were a Scot. Alcohol doesn't improve things?! You're English is very impressive for a third language. English is my first language and I have enough trouble with it.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Tom McParland 08/06/2014 at 23:03

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OK, I'll definitely keep you in mind and recommend you if anyone is buying a car. How do your fees work?

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 23:05

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I'm more fluent orally when I'm drunk, but my spelling goes straight out the window :P As for being a Scot, well.. that's the point really. My name here was a joke at first, then it sorta ended up as a persona.

Tom McParland > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 23:31

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Here is an explanation I send to potential customers.

I have 3 packages: Package 1 ($149) I do a personalized vehicle evaluation to match the best car to your needs, budget, and lifestyle. I then locate the best picks and give you the appropriate market value. Package 2 ($299) would mean you would get me as a consultant I will provide a full personalized vehicle evaluation that analyzes your needs, wants, budget and lifestyle to narrow down the selection of vehicles. Then I would essentially teach you the tricks on how to contact the dealers and negotiate the best deal. Package 3 ($499) you get the full vehicle evaluation in Package 2 but I do all the negotiation work saving you the time and hassle.

Of course all of the packages can apply to used, new, or lease vehicles.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Tom McParland 08/06/2014 at 23:41

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Your packages don't quite fit my situation. I'm a car guy so I know what car I would want/need for my budget, lifestyle etc. I know how to find appropriate market value. I also know the tricks and negotiating tactics to use with dealers.

My need is that I'm a lousy negotiator. Even though I know the appropriate tactics. Would you have an option where all I would want is for you to negotiate the deal for me?

Tom McParland > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/06/2014 at 23:46

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We can probably work something out when the time comes. :)

VincentMalamute-Kim > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/07/2014 at 08:58

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He does have the VIN. I bet the car is being shipped to another dealer and then prepped and then sold to the new customer. Do you know how long a sale would show up on Carfax?

spanfucker retire bitch > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/07/2014 at 09:30

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Did he at least get his down payment back? Whether it got taken back by Acura (doubtful) or it was sold, he should get his 500 bucks back.

spanfucker retire bitch > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/07/2014 at 09:31

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I was able to take the exact car I was planning on purchasing home for the weekend - and I hadn't even asked if I could. It was just straight up offered to me.

Then again, it wasn't a custom ordered luxury car, it was just a mid-range Mazda3.

TheCraigy > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/07/2014 at 17:39

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Yeah the dealer sold his car to someone else. Or "Acura" did a dealer trade and another dealer sold it to someone else. It's surprising that they ordered him a car without a contract, but I suppose a deposit is good enough. Seems like he should just order another one?

Somewhat related, I drove a new loaner MDX the other day while getting my wife's MDX serviced. As expected it was really nice, but I felt much lower, more like I was driving a tallish car and less like a truck. I guess some people like that, but I want some height on my SUV.

VincentMalamute-Kim > TheCraigy 08/07/2014 at 18:48

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I haven't driven the MDX. I like the lower heights - easy to get in and out of. I wouldn't buy an SUV, no need for one, minivans have more room, utility for me. I'd buy an SUV if I had to tow.

VincentMalamute-Kim > spanfucker retire bitch 08/07/2014 at 19:15

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That is nice. I wish more dealers actually had their customers welfare in mind.