Estoque: The Diesel Lamborghini That Never Was

"Road Magazine" (roadmag)
08/02/2014 at 16:26 • Filed to: Lamborghini Estoque

'Radical' and 'Lamborghini' are two words that you would be hard pressed to separate. Lamborghini has always had that unmistakable streak of audacity and an almost child-like silliness coded into its DNA, yet the 2008 Paris motor show saw a Lamborghini concept which was so radical, it called into question the very philosophies that Lamborghini adhere to.

Lamborghini's Estoque concept was conceived as a Ł150,000+ super-saloon seating four in comfort, a grand tourer that echoed the Espada but provided four doors instead of two. The real revelation from the Estoque however was that Lamborghini had also designed it to incorporate both petrol and diesel engines.

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Car manufacturers as a whole have been required for some time to keep their total CO2 outputs down, and as a result, many of the world's prestige manufacturers have had to introduce new engines to accommodate the regulations. Not all manufacturers saw this as a negative though, many new models were – and still are – spawned from the regulations and the automakers have been able to reach out to clients that they may not have had previously, which is good for the car industry in general. Lamborghini's diesel idea all stemmed from this new movement. From a development perspective the Estoque seemed to be a good idea brimming with business potential.

However, there were a couple of rather large 'but's' waiting in the wings. Would anybody with Ł150,000 to spend choose to purchase a diesel powered Lamborghini? Would anybody buy a Lamborghini saloon? It's a question that was never answered, as the Estoque was never given the green light for production, but clues as to its possible fate can be found in the current car market in the form of two luxurious saloons with contrasting fortunes.

The Maserati Quattroporte has had consistently good reviews since its launch, and seems to get stronger with each upgrade. 2013 actually saw Maserati sell 7,800 Quattroporte's. It's Maserati's strongest selling vehicle and the driving force behind their recent resurgence, but it has taken many years to get it to this point. On the other hand, the more expensive and exclusive Aston Martin Rapide has not sold particularly well. Aston Martin actually cut production of the Rapide by almost 50% after disappointing sales in 2011.

It's here we may discover a little insight into the wealthy customers mindset. Mega-flashy Rolls Royce's aside, does there come a point in the price brackets where buying a saloon is just no longer feasible? Perhaps this is why Lamborghini held back the Estoque. Not only is a diesel Lamborghini one of the biggest automotive turn-offs imaginable, Ł150,000 for a saloon is too. Starting at just under Ł80,000, Maserati have done very well from the Quattroporte, but starting at around Ł150,000, Aston Martin hasn't. This is simply because buyers view other cars as being able to do the very same job the Aston does at a far lower price.

Should we ever happen to see a Lamborghini saloon, don't expect it to sell well. Lamborghini thankfully saw the light before it was too late, and the gorgeous Estoque concept remains just that – a concept.

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DISCUSSION (80)

Cherry_man1 > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 16:34

I spy a little Huracn in the front end of it

Kaufmania: Mark Webber's Stunt Double > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 16:41

a raging bull panamera. I above of this. Its like a roller coaster ride for 4 people.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 16:48

I thought they did decide to build it...I was really hoping they would. The Rapid is awful, so is the Quattroporte. The Phantom or Ghost and Muslanne or Flying Spur aren't fast enough/nimble enough. The 6 Series GC is too small, not quite crazy enough. S-Class/7 Series/A8 are too common. FF is a hatch and perfect but sometimes you want the profile of a sedan. This would have been the perfect car, I think.

nihil > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 16:55

I still think the Estoque would have been a hit. Aston has had trouble selling the Rapide because its rear seats are practically useless - and Aston has been a joke recently.

Kinja'd!!!

Beautiful, but flawed - like its non-existent rear legroom.

Kinja'd!!!

A Bentley Flying Spur or a Porsche Panamera still sells very well, thankyouverymuch .

Kinja'd!!!

Above 500 units per year; below 8000 units per year.

Kinja'd!!!

Given that most modern Lambos are AWD, an AWD 600+ hp Estoque would have sold very, very well. Which is why it was canned really - it would have started cannibalizing into Bentley Flying Spur sales. From a Porsche-VAG perspective there was no room for the Estoque as the market was spoken for by the Panamera and the Flying Spur.

And finally, Lambo did the LM002 - nothing is too radical for it after that.

Kinja'd!!!

And, that is radical.

8000rpm > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 16:56

Until this moment I thought I would hate any Lamborghini sedan, but that looks... amazing. I need this.

Volvo 850 > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/02/2014 at 17:06

What's wrong with the Rapide?

EDIT: Anything other than the tiny back seat, which I guess does render it somewhat pointless.

Pdexter > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 17:15

I got a say the concept hasn't aged that well. When it was introduced years ago I thought it was among the prettiest cars around.

tobythesandwich > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/02/2014 at 17:19

The Quattroporte is far from awful. Same with the Rapide. The Rapide has a smallish backseat, but honestly it's more than you'd get in any other Aston. So who cares about that as much?

IvanaTinkle > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 17:21

This is actually the type of cars that populate Lamborghini's history as opposed to the Audis they make now. The mid-engined Miuras and Countachs were really high-end (I also realize that the Urraco, Silhouette, and Jalpa were in the lineup as well - they were what the Gallardo is now), but in addition, Lamborghini put out the Islero, Jarama, 350 GT, and 400 GT which were all grand tourers. This is as much a "Lamborghini" as any of their other cars are, even moreso if it's rear-wheel-drive.

joelja > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 17:22

panamera, m6 gran coupe, rs7, telsa s p85+, cls 63 amg mostly start over 100k USD and by the time you account for them costing more in europe and you option them out well it's a pretty big number... If volkswagen thought they could get a decent return with dilluting the brand they undoubtedly would have since they have plenty of platforms to draw from, instead from vag you'll have to settle for a Bently (or an a/s/rs7 or a panamera/s/hyrbird/diesel/4s/executive/turbo)

TommyRocker > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 17:25

it would have been the best looking car in their stable.

Reserve Parachute > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 17:31

Curious to see which diesel engine they were planning on using.

Audi had a monstrous V12 diesel in the Q7 V12 TDi that produced 490HP and 740lb/ft of torque. It would definitely suit the Estoque.

DanZman > nihil
08/02/2014 at 17:31

I agree completely... the estoque was consumed by its siblings while it was still in the womb.

thats a cool picture of the LM002, I've never seen a "wagon" version

300hp30mpgrwdfor30k > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 17:49

Ferrari owns Maseratti, right? Maybe Lambo should get their own Maseratti rather than risking their brand on ideas like this. They could do another SUV and everything. Maybe experiment with hybridization and electrics that could move their way up to Lambos too, all while making scratch selling toned down cars. I guess since VW owns them, maybe that's what Audi is to Lambo. Hmm.

RevCrowley > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 17:50

For many years the Espada was the best selling Lambo of all time. If they do it right, there's probably a market for a replacement, albeit as a 4-seater coupe. (The back seats in the Espada are totally usable by adults, BTW).

Maxaxle > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 17:56

I think the designer is trying to make our heads implode, it's so crazy.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > 300hp30mpgrwdfor30k
08/02/2014 at 18:09

I like that idea, that could work rather well I think. It's who VAG would let them take over though, the options are few and far between I think...

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > DanZman
08/02/2014 at 18:14

'Estoque - the Lamborghini diesel killed in the womb' was actually one of the titles I nearly went for. Thought it sounded a little bit too bloody for a headline though!

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 18:15

Hope you all liked the article. Thank you for the continued support, and thanks to Jalopnik for sharing!

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > tobythesandwich
08/02/2014 at 18:21

The new QP just looks (inside and out) like a plus-sized Kia. I really hate to say that but I cannot like it. I just can't. It's far too expensive for what it is as well. I just do not feel any attraction to it. The old one was at least unique and special, if a little underpowered towards the end. This one just looks like...nothingness.

The Rapide...well, before the facelift I thought it was massively ugly, and massively underpowered. Now it's a little less ugly and has about enough power...but there's still so much plastic in the interior and the electronics are so outdated that I just can't see spending anything like what they want for it. I'd rather have a Panamera any day. It sucks because I think a V12 Aston sedan could be amazing...but the Rapide just misses the mark with me.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Volvo 850
08/02/2014 at 18:22

I just can't stand the plastic and pathetic electronics inside, or the awkwardly long, thin, and tall shape. Just doesn't bring me much pleasure.

bpands > tobythesandwich
08/02/2014 at 18:34

The problem with critiquing cars that are above a certain price point is that the guys who buy them will find the most ridiculous things to complain about.

Just going by some of the things I've heard come up as complaints: Aston Martins shouldn't necessarily need a crystal key fob since the cars that made Aston Martin so popular in the past didn't have them and they're still great cars, Ferraris shouldn't necessarily need a manettino switch since the road cars that Enzo made were pretty great, and Porsche 911s should not have to grow bigger with every new model since the older smaller 911s were still loved, tiny as they were. Yet, all these makes still did what they did because it's just a matter of what their clientele wants and if they want to keep their clientele, they have to give an inch somewhere. This is how the Ferrari California ended up seeing the light of day.

bpands > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 18:37

Does anyone think the Lamborghini Urus could still be in play?

Kinja'd!!!

yamanote > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/02/2014 at 18:41

Your opinion is an unpopular one, but one I wholeheartedly agree with. Been looking for a replacement for my Panamera 4S for a couple months now and the only viable choice I see is a Panamera GTS or Turbo.

5 years since the Panamera's introduction and nobody's been able to match it. It's almost hilarious, if a bit disappointing.

I could see myself in a lightly used FF, but not at the $350k+ Canadian dealers are all asking... I see plenty south of $250k down in the States. It'd be a no-brainer at that price.

Nobi > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 18:59

is it just me, or if you squint really hard at an Audi RS7, it bears a striking resemblance to this?

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > yamanote
08/02/2014 at 19:02

I know it is, but having been in/around all these cars, its just how I feel. The Aston sounds good, that's about all I can say. I'm glad someone can relate.

I feel like if I had the money I'd be in the same boat. Really, there is nothing that combines the power, speed, handling, luxury, and tech -to say nothing of build quality - that you get in a Panamera. For a bit less, I'd probably have an M5 or M6 GC, since they are even faster. But the new Turbo S should be a rocket. I like the S63 and S65...but they don't handle like the Porsche.

Wow, you guys are getting raped for FFs up there...there's a ton under 250k here, and they seem to be on their way to falling even lower by years end. Been in one of those, although haven't driven one. Very nice cars, feels every bit as well-built as a German car. And the sound is just unreal. A little down on tech, but I could live with that. That engine is the centerpiece. I'd be willing to bet that you'll be able to get into one for under 200k here soon. Too bad that's not an option for you.

The funny thing is that for 2012, FFs came with almost nothing standard, so most came with MSRPs around 400k, some even way more. People complained, and sales weren't as high as they thought, so for 2013 and later they made a bunch of stuff standard. So combined with the massive depreciation, the 2012s are insanely good deals.

Nacon > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/02/2014 at 19:11

What about Tesla Motor Model S? That's the best sedan car on the market.

Free Market Party Company > Volvo 850
08/02/2014 at 19:24

...and there you have it. If you're going to add doors, at least connect them to usable seats.

The new Lagonda concept looks much more promising.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Nacon
08/02/2014 at 19:28

It's a nice car but nowhere near as nice as the other cars I listed above.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 20:34

They should have used this... R10 tdi

Kinja'd!!!

jph > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 20:37

The Aston Martin Rapide also costs damn near twice as much, so comparing the two is not fair at all.

suss6052 > 300hp30mpgrwdfor30k
08/02/2014 at 21:07

Fiat owns both Ferrari and Maserati. Just because Fiat has aligned the Maserati product with Ferrari doesn't mean it is actually owned by Ferrari.

Same as Audi and Lamborghini being sub brands of the V.W. Group which is wholly owned by V.W.

Person Person > tobythesandwich
08/02/2014 at 22:52

People would buy an Aston sedan because it has real rear legroom. Slightly more isn't enough for the trade off you're making.

MK6GTI-now with added Miata > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/02/2014 at 23:05

I suppose that says nice things about Kia these days though.

Zach0212 > Road Magazine
08/02/2014 at 23:22

"'Radical' and 'Lamborghini' are two words that you would be hard pressed to separate."

Unless of course I was talking about the separate automakers Radical and Lamborghini

RSWhore > yamanote
08/02/2014 at 23:52

any thought about an S8 or RS7? Personally for the money I would be looking at an S8 with the f*uck*ng gorgeous Audi design interior. (Not to be a total fanboy)

fukuuuu > Road Magazine
08/03/2014 at 00:15

Get your LIMITED EDITION "Fuck You" Shirts here!

http://teespring.com/fuckyou2014

Kinja'd!!!

Nacon > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/03/2014 at 02:31

What you mean it's not nice as your list of cars? It doesn't fart all the time! :P

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Nacon
08/03/2014 at 02:53

Well, I quite like the sound an engine makes, a BMW V12 is about as far away from "farting" as you can get.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > MK6GTI-now with added Miata
08/03/2014 at 02:58

That's true. Kia makes great cars now.

yamanote > RSWhore
08/03/2014 at 03:47

Floaty understeering pigs, unfortunately. I had high hopes for the RS7 but it handles nothing like a Panamera. The body roll on that thing is nuts.

The interior is indeed nice, but if I were going for a floaty sedan I think the new S-Class would be my choice. I like Audis- had an R8 V10- but the whole line about how it's the best Audi because it handles nothing like an Audi rings true in my mind.

yamanote > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/03/2014 at 04:21

I was dead set on a Rapide before I was convinced to take a drive in a Panamera- ordered a new 4S right then and there. No space in the back, slow transmission, floaty handling. It did sound great, but was not enough to make up for its other deficiencies.

An M6 GranCoupe has crossed my mind several times but I cannot justify the 160k+ price tag a loaded one would run, for a gussied up 5 series. I have a CLS63 over in Hong Kong- perfectly fine car for the road conditions there (primarily stop and go traffic, lol), but you can tell it's 'just' an E class underneath. It doesn't feel as bespoke or special as the Porsche does.

That's the problem with the M/AMG/RS models IMO... they're just 'normal' sedans with some sporty bits bolted on. The Panamera on the other hand was designed to be a sport sedan from the ground up. That's why a base V6 costs as much as a V8 powered equivalent from BMW/Mercedes- it's an expensive chassis with an 'inexpensive' engine bolted in.

Many have argued with me that I don't need my four door to handle that well, after all, I already have a supercar in the garage. But when I'm spending this kind of $ on a car, why should I compromise when I don't have to?

I was recently in the Bay Area and took a look at a few used FFs. They did mention it would be possible to get one into Canada if I so desired (which, curiously, would not be possible with their 458s)- and when comparing the price tags to Canadian market examples, even after import duties, it would be huge savings. But for now, I'm more inclined to pick up a Panamera Turbo and replace the R8 with a 458...

Funny you mention the options on the '13 FFs. The particular FF I was looking at was a very early build 2013- and therefore was missing all of the features that were supposed to be standard on 2013s! No auto-dimming mirrors, no full heated/memory electric seats, cruise control ('pit speed limiter'), etc.

Nacon > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/03/2014 at 06:59

I know some people are picky about how it sounds, but you know what... farting is still farting and that's bad. :P

At least it's not a Ferrari. The worst of them all...

Pitchblende > Road Magazine
08/03/2014 at 07:00

Its like they have taken a Porsche Panamera and nearly been successful in making it pretty, or at least passable.

frances_ity > Road Magazine
08/03/2014 at 07:41

last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My neighbour's sister has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out.

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frances_ity > Road Magazine
08/03/2014 at 08:54

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frances_ity > Road Magazine
08/03/2014 at 09:48

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Tani Vickson > Road Magazine
08/03/2014 at 09:56

Aw man, this totally could have had Audi's V12 TDI from the Q7 in it. A 6.0l turbodiesel pushing almost 500 horsepower, probably more if they'd let Lambo loose on it.

Sinngh > Road Magazine
08/03/2014 at 10:18

By the way, in case you want to see it in the flesh, they've put it (surprise!) in the Lamborghini museum at their headquarters in Sant'Agata. Lots of cars from the company's history are not on display, sadly, but this one is. The interesting bit is that you don't recognise it as a 4-door at first glance. It really is as sleek as a shark.

ReaperChief > 300hp30mpgrwdfor30k
08/03/2014 at 10:48

The Maserati for Lambo are Bentley and Porsche..

AJF34074923 > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/03/2014 at 10:49

It's funny that you criticize the looks of the QP (sorry, but no one would ever mistake one for a Kia), and the updated Rapide (again, sorry but I think it looks worse than the previous model. That big gaping mouth looks like a Mazda 3) and yet you would choose what is arguably one of the ugliest cars on the road today.

frances_ity > Road Magazine
08/03/2014 at 10:54

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JohnPlayerSpecial > yamanote
08/03/2014 at 10:54

Mercedes S63 AMG perhaps?

JohnPlayerSpecial > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/03/2014 at 10:57

I agree; I have had the chance to drive a P85 Perfornance recently and the interior is not quite up to the same standard as the W222 S Class or Panamera.

yamanote > JohnPlayerSpecial
08/03/2014 at 11:17

If I were looking for a luxury car, I'd be all over the S-Class. The quality rivals the some of the nicest cars I've been in (Mulsannes and Phantoms come to mind) at a fraction of the price... but it simply isn't as fun to drive as the Porsche.

I see the AMGs as a luxury sedan with a big engine, and the Porsche as a sports car with two extra seats. The end result - 'sporty luxury car' - is similar in concept, but in reality very very different.

yamanote > JohnPlayerSpecial
08/03/2014 at 11:18

The Tesla does have me intrigued, but as you say the interior quality isn't up to par. I noticed they recently added an extended leather option to the configurator, I wonder if that would improve things any?

pyzamo213 > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/03/2014 at 12:36

I'm sorry sir, but I have to disagree. Rapide is gorgeous piece of car and quatroporte is one of most thrilling saloons on the market. Especially 1st gen. because Ferrari engine and open exhaust!! I think there is very small market for expensive saloons, of course, but saloon Lambo would be unbelievably thrilling.

3TS > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/03/2014 at 14:10

Well they are building a Lagonda (magazine impression from the mules)

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > pyzamo213
08/03/2014 at 14:57

First gen QP I totally agree with you on...I love those cars and would love to have one someday. The new one however to me is entirely average in appearance...and incredibly expensive. I'd take an S63, M6 GC, or S63 over a new QP any day.

I know I'm in the minority with the Rapide...but I just can't get over how long, skinny, and thin it looks. It's way too tall and narrow. And it looks like a stretched DB9 with the ass of a Vantage. I like the S more, the front is at least bold and aggressive. I wouldn't actually mind one if they were dirt cheap...but that appalling tech package is just too much. The nav system is borderline useless, and the plastic...I just can't do it. I was so excited for the Lagonda to come back...until I saw it was basically going to be a special project for a few sultans and that's it.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > JohnPlayerSpecial
08/03/2014 at 14:59

Yeah, most definitely. Also, I far prefer the sound of an engine, and a top speed over 120+, and the ability to refuel in minutes. I don't live in the city so charging would be a challenge.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > AJF34074923
08/03/2014 at 14:59

Well, that's the thing about opinions...they're all different.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > yamanote
08/03/2014 at 15:14

Spot on, couldn't have said it better myself. The Panamera seems to be the best all-around car there is. I do quite like the M5/M6, but the Porsche really is in another class. It's got the luxury of an S-Class with about the tech of the BMWs which is more than enough. And that chassis is magic. You said it perfectly...it's designed ground-up to be a 4 door sports car. And I agree with your other point as well...why compromise. If you're going to have 4 doors and 4 passengers, why not have the best. If you can have a sedan that out-handles many sports cars, why not do it.

458 + Panamera Turbo is about perfect, sounds like a very well-rounded garage. Can't really do too much better than that. Both are arguably the best in their respective segments, and both have been reliable and are easy to drive every day if you had to.

That's pretty strange to see a '13 like that, it's always funny to me to see "transition" cars like that. Maybe in 50 years it'll be worth something :p. It's hard to believe how much they asked for those things without all that standard...quite a lot of guts to ask 350k for a car equipped like a Civic LX. That's the one thing that the Panamera has over the FF...it's just a far more modern and luxurious car. The leather in the FF is nice...but the electronics are a bit lacking. Of course, the sound and acceleration will make you forget all that...

yellowdatsun > Road Magazine
08/03/2014 at 15:18

WAY better looking than both the Panamera and Quatroporte. But it seems a lot of those who are able to afford them, have more money than taste anyways.

GilmorefuySys > Road Magazine
08/03/2014 at 16:35

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EmmettuksOuu > Road Magazine
08/03/2014 at 18:19

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tobythesandwich > bpands
08/03/2014 at 19:04

It's not so much the people who buy them that will find the ridiculous things to complain about. it's the people who often can't afford them.

Also everything you brought up had little to nothing to do with the clientele. Aston's keyfob maybe. But that's only because they wanted to distance themselves from reused Ford keys. Ferrari uses the manettino switch to establish a closer bond with their racing program (which they bank pretty much all their heritage on). And Porsche keeps making the 911 bigger because of ever changing safety concerns and the continually growing Boxster/Cayman.
Sure companies have to find ways to woo new buyers.... But it doesn't necessarily mean that they are making major changes like you think.

phoenixbondoob > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/03/2014 at 19:06

my classmate's aunt makes $87 every hour on the computer . She has been out of a job for eight months but last month her payment was $20613 just working on the computer for a few hours. over here....................>>> WWW.JOBSAA.COM

bpands > tobythesandwich
08/03/2014 at 22:08

Personally, I'm not as miffed about the new tech or the growth in size as other guys I've heard from; I'd happily take a current 911 C4s in white. All that I brought up are actual complaints I've heard when of the empty nesters in my neighborhood discuss opting for an exotic make.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > 3TS
08/04/2014 at 00:32

They are, but according to them only a very few all for the middle-eastern market, which means we will never see them. Also, I thought it was going to be on a new platform with perhaps some help from AMG, but it's once again another VH derivative with existing engines...which means likely a Rapide S with different body panels. Kind of disappointed.

marko1464 > Road Magazine
08/04/2014 at 00:34

Ummmm, anyone else seeing this?

Kinja'd!!!

?v=1406304831

PedroSusc5 > Road Magazine
08/04/2014 at 02:40

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PedroSusc5 > Road Magazine
08/04/2014 at 03:31

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Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > Free Market Party Company
08/04/2014 at 06:26

The new Lagonda is for the middle-east only, and is only available to customers who have been invited to buy it. Very disappointing!

Icarus8 > Road Magazine
08/04/2014 at 06:26

Without knowing anything else about the Rapide, I would never buy it just because the back seats are useless. The absolute only reason for a 4-door Aston Martin is because you want usable rear seats. You're sacrificing looks and handling just for those seats, so an adult had better be able to occupy them comfortably. Every proper full-size sedan acknowledges the obvious importance of this. At 6' 2", I'm not comfortable in the back seat of the CLS or A7 because the roofline compromises headroom, but I'm sure a man or woman of average height is fine. And everyone will be comfortable in a 7-series, an S-class, or a Bentley Flying Spur. A 2+2 may exist for insurance reasons, but a 4-door must be practical. In my opinion there's no mystery why the Rapide didn't sell.

Jonny Edge (@thejonnyedge) > marko1464
08/04/2014 at 06:28

My original plans were to mention this in the article. However, the Lagonda is for the middle eastern market only, and can only be purchased by those Aston Martin have invited to buy it.

emily_livp > Road Magazine
08/04/2014 at 07:19

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PatrickPM > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/04/2014 at 08:47

You forgot the Panamera Turbo *shudders*

Bobby Ang > Road Magazine
08/04/2014 at 12:02

I'm surprised this article never brought the Porsche Panamera into discussion. The Panamera Turbo S starts at $180,000 while the S Executive starts at $200,000. To do a proper luxury sedan, you at least need to let the guy sitting behind feels like he's sitting in a $150,000 car. The Rapide was wrong the very moment it decided the rear seats should be for adults with chopped legs; even if James May did tried his very best to squeeze in and proclaim it's very spacious while the camera shows every inch of his skin was glued to every possible surface of the Rapide's upholstery.

If the Estoque allows the boss, or the occasional mistress or the kids or whatever to sit in relative comfort, like that of the Panamera, which is similar to the 5-Series. Job's done. The Arabs and Chinese will buy it. And do a V12 turbo halo version, a V10 turbo (RS6 engine) and then lastly the V8 turbo 'Unicef poverty spec' to round up. Then finally (like how Porsche does it) launch the stupid V12 TDi to show that diesel is fucking cool, and do the necessary volume pusher, the V6 TDi when the Estoque's about halfway into its lifecycle, but ONLY in Europe to grasp whatever leftover volume. Let the Chinese and Arab burn their pockets to show this is indeed a $150-200k car, and the Europeans snapping the diesel and the Americans with the V10 turbo help amortise off the cost.

No?

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > PatrickPM
08/04/2014 at 12:15

I did, that's probably the best choice, although I'd be fine with an M5 or M6. The S63 and S65 are awesome, when I say they aren't "special" enough I'm kind of exaggerating...I think they're extremely special, but of course they aren't as special as an FF for example.

PatrickPM > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
08/04/2014 at 13:27

I know what you mean. The M5/M6 definitely seems more desirable when you think about it but they just aren't as exotic