Americans help me out with Mustang engines

"Rosco" (60SLAMBUG) 07/22/2014 at 22:41 • Filed to: None

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Now I live in Australia and car manufacturing is dead here, it killed itself (ducks for cover). On the plus side it means we are getting the 2015 mustang. I'm actually genuinely interested in this as a car.

Specifically i'm interested in the ecoboost. Now I know its semi-sacrilegious not to get the v8 but I like the new tech and the improved fuel efficiency etc.

But here is my question...why a 2.3l 4 banger? It doesn't make sense to me. I just read the article on Jalopnik about the new truck (F-150?) and that comes with a 2.7 v6 and a 3.5 v6 ecoboost. For me both of these engines seem far more sensible for the mustang.

Can anyone help me out with why they weren't used? Or does anyone know about interchangeability?

Cheers.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 22:42

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Probably some non-US model bs. I think the US version has the 3.5. Of course I can't remember what it has at the time of typing.
*edit* We get the 2.3 also. I don't know, might be for a lighter weight compared to the other two?

daender > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 22:44

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The V6-turbo would invade the V8's territory in terms price and power so Ford didn't want their top-dog being challenged. The I-4 traces it roots to the 80/90s Ford SVO Mustang which had a turbocharged four-banger. The I-4 makes more power than the V6, weighs less and, theoretically, should return better gas economy.

Rosco > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 07/22/2014 at 22:45

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USA gets a 3.5 v6 NON ecoboost 300hp 280ft/lb. 2.3 ecoboost is 310hp 320ft/lb. Even the numbers are stupidly similar.

vdub_nut: scooter snob > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 22:46

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My guess? Because they can slap in a v8, call it a GT, and charge a boatload more, but they'd never be able to sell the (probably as expensive, manufacturing wise, though maybe more because MUH TERBOZ) v6TT for as much, because MURKA (...STRAYA?)

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 22:46

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I knew we get the 3.5 I just couldn't remember if it was ecoboost or not.

Brian, The Life of > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 22:46

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I'm going which "weight balance." With the numbers the 2.3EB puts down, the potential for a truly epic track car/canyon carver is great. Because IRS. TBH, I'd be torn between the EB and the Coyote.

Rosco > daender 07/22/2014 at 22:48

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true i suppose but i cant help thinking that the 2.3 will be near its limit where as the larger ecoboosts will have much more tuning potential. For me the mustang (as an outsider) appears to be Americas tuning car of choice (excluding ricers). The idea of the mustang with the bigger engine and ford supported mods (similar to mountune in the u.k.) seems more sensible.

Rosco > vdub_nut: scooter snob 07/22/2014 at 22:52

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Its strange, all the manufacturers are going to turbos for their halo models (AMG etc). I suppose it makes sense america wise but I honestly think the v6tt would sell better everywhere else.

ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 22:53

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2.3 ecoboost

Rosco > Brian, The Life of 07/22/2014 at 23:00

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ecoboost v6 = 449lbs coyote v8 = 444lbs

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:04

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The 2.3 was originally found in the Mustang II's and Pinto's. A whole boatload of rally victories were won with the OG 2.3L Lima. And the F-150 motors are meant for truck duty and would suck in the Mustang without modifications like the 5.0L is different from the Mustang vs the F-150.

Brian, The Life of > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:05

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I was referring to the 2.3L EcoBoost. That's an I4. Haven't found the weight, though.

trmoore09 > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:07

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I think because the 2.3l I4 puts out slightly more power than the v6, but gets better fuel mileage. It is also a throw back to the old 2.3 SVO fox body mustang. The ecoboost 4 cyl is more of a alternative for the v6, not the v8. the ecoboost v6s in the trucks are replacements/alternatives for the v8.

Rosco > Brian, The Life of 07/22/2014 at 23:08

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yeh, i couldnt find it either but then i though surely the stang cant be balanced solely for the I4....if the gt is the halo then surely it would have good weight balance. The 2.0 I4 is 328lbs

CRider > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:09

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You're making this more complicated than it needs to be. When you buy a Mustang, you go to your Ford dealer and order a GT with a manual, the track pack and the Recaro seats. Pick your color and other options if you wish. Congratulations, you've got a Mustang.

Brian, The Life of > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:16

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Less weight up front helps rotation and reduces corner push in late braking. I would not be surprised in the 2.3EB beats the Coyote on highly technical tracks.

Rosco > CRider 07/22/2014 at 23:19

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I'm Hearing you but i would like to add our fuel costs 140% as much as yours (0.97 usd/L in America vs 1.37 usd/L in Aus). Add that to our expected retail of the gt vs the ecoboost ($56,000USD vs $42,000USD) and the ecoboost starts to make more sense.

Rosco > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 07/22/2014 at 23:21

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if we are going with rally bred motors give me a 1.6 BDA......and a new escort to put it in :D

Have car, will drive (now has a motorcycle too) > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:22

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I suspect it mostly comes down to fuel economy, though marketing and customer desires no doubt play a part too. The 2.3L EcoBoost can provide sufficient performance to both be quick enough for a "sports" car and sit below the V8, all whilst using less fuel than the current V6. An EcoBoost V6 would be too similar in specs to the V8. If Mustang customers didn't care how many cylinders their GT had, no doubt the V8 would be dead and replaced with an EcoBoost V6, but the fact is that they do. Only customers willing to consider a non-V8 Mustang will buy an EcoBoost, and for those customers the 2.3L turbo I4 is the right engine.

I am also in Australia, and also looking forward to finally getting the Mustang here. For me, the EcoBoost would be the sweet spot - more than adequate power in a sweet performance oriented engine without the weight and fuel consumption of the V8.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:23

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Hey, maybe they'll give you guys the Falcon's turbo I6!

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:24

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Psh the 2.3 and the 2.0 kicked so much ass.

Rosco > Have car, will drive (now has a motorcycle too) 07/22/2014 at 23:26

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Yeh thats' where I'm sitting in relation to it. But I always want more power :D The 2.7 eco would be a really appealing engine to me and would give the larger mustang the displacement edge over other 2-2.5 litre turbos on sale i.e. Golf R, wrx evo, mps etc which all sit in a similar price bracket.

j.davism5 > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:27

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Just to be clear, the unions destroyed car manufacturing in Australia. regardless of the relevance of the product to the market place, the unions determined ridiculous pay conditions, low productivity and poor quality. Don't forget that.

Rosco > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 07/22/2014 at 23:27

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there is little better than standing in some foggy woods in Wales freezing your knackers off litening to a MK1 coming and going through the trees.

CRider > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:28

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The actual difference in fuel cost per year is actually not very big. I'd guess a couple hundred bucks more a year, if that, for the pleasure of having the V8. I'd say it's worth it. That's the point of the Mustang- having things you couldn't otherwise have. It's not cheap, but it's still cheaper than a M4.

Rosco > j.davism5 07/22/2014 at 23:28

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I agree, thats why I was ducking as I was expecting a Union led slanging match. I'm actually glad that the industry was told to get stuffed regarding more handouts.

Rosco > CRider 07/22/2014 at 23:30

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'cheaper than an m4' -true dat the m4 starts at $156,000 USD over here!

Rosco > Brian, The Life of 07/22/2014 at 23:31

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true, i am especially interested to see what the aftermarket can do with the 2.3. I guess i'm just stuck on 'there's no replacement for displacement'.

Rosco > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 07/22/2014 at 23:33

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the barra is a great engine, with minimal work (intake, injectors and retune) they can push over 500hp atw and do it reliably for 100,000+km.

although being an I6 it may be too tall for the 'stang

Brian, The Life of > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:39

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Well, stock compression in only 9.5:1 and I understand it has fairly low boost numbers. With modest tuning it's probably capable of close to 400HP/lb-ft and still be reliable.

edit: It also has forged internals

j.davism5 > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:39

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That's all you had to say! As someone that has worked for, and as contractor, still works in the australian automotive industry, I sat here and watched it explode. The unions fought to keep a rediculous increase at toyota that wasn't relevant to the output of facilities, won, and then got upset that toyota pulled up stumps. Makes me sick. I have friends that lost jobs as a result of pig headed unions that argued for a stupid wage increase and destroyed the last Australian car manufacturing jobs in the process. I agree with you on the handout front. The people of australia have money in their pockets, our government is broke.

As for why the 2.3 ecoboost? simple. GT86. expect to land a base ecoboost for under 40k. Australia is the 4th biggest market place in the world for 86. Ford knows there is a youth market waiting to finance it.

CRider > Rosco 07/22/2014 at 23:40

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That's the price you pay for living in a glorified island nation. Still, I think if you're going to buy a Mustang, do it once and do it right. Get the GT and live without regrets, and just pay the relatively small fuel premium. You're already paying for a new car and all the costs associated with that. Get the right one.

Rosco > j.davism5 07/22/2014 at 23:49

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Yeh it's a tragedy all those jobs went, but it happened, as you said, because of unsustainable business conditions. What I am excited to see is (if, and hopefully they will) where the workers retrain and end up. I'm hopeful that this leads to Australia becoming a world leader in something else.

Isn't the gt86 dead though (I had heard it was from a source at toyota). Also the mustang is a hell of alot bigger car wise. I just think that the 2.3 put it in the wrx, evo, mps golf r even amg a45 kind of area.

Rosco > Brian, The Life of 07/22/2014 at 23:51

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I was looking at the ford spec sheet and i did like the details. The potential is there to turn it into a stonker....but a 2.7 would be stonker-er.

Hopefully if its follows its cosworth bretherin (or cosworth gets onboard) it will be able to turn serious numbers.

Rosco > CRider 07/22/2014 at 23:56

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hahah one day we will tell the queen to get stuffed and be left to our own devices to drink beer and fight.

My next question is...what the towing ability of a 'stang...cos i got 1000kg of trailer and racecar to put behind it.

hah i just looked at the 2014 brochure and it says 1000lbs......thats less than my fiesta is rated to tow (1900lbs)!

Cherry_man1 > Rosco 07/23/2014 at 00:03

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Its a 3.7L V6

CRider > Rosco 07/23/2014 at 02:03

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You want to tow... with a Mustang?

j.davism5 > Rosco 07/23/2014 at 03:55

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86 is actually far from dead. there are a range of mules being tested, including a 4 door. For both lexus and toyota, there are a myriad of 2 door sport coupes on the horizon. Toyota plans on a coupe above 86, a sports car below 86, and believe it or not, FTS was built production ready. As for mustang vs... the 86 proved there is a market place for cheap rear drive coupes in Australia. Consider that it's nearest competitor is the 370Z at over 65K. 86 resale in aus is still ridiculous, and dealers still don't have stock holding. Competitors like wrx and golf are in the mix, but mustang gives australians a taste of the rear drive coupe culture that we havent had since the 90's.

j.davism5 > j.davism5 07/23/2014 at 04:16

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btw...like to know your source at toyota...I'm on the inside, and the scuttlebut/prototypes I've seen paint a less gloomy picture for the sports car ;)

Rosco > j.davism5 07/29/2014 at 00:51

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there was an international motorsport one make series being organised that I had some connections with that toyota pulled the plug on. It was suggested that it wasnt worth it as the 86 wasnt going to be around much longer