10 Reasons The E60 535i Is Better Than The M5

"Mike Kopstain" (mikekopstain)
07/21/2014 at 11:49 • Filed to: bmw, e60, m5

In recent years BMW has somewhat muddied the water with respect to M cars. First they started making their standard cars available with option packages that made them appear nearly identical to their M equivalent. Then they started releasing M cars that bear the M badge but aren't M cars like the M235 but by and large the true M version of any car has always represented a marked improvement in performance over even the best standard version of the same car. The E60 M5 is no exception. So then my suggestion that the 535 is a better all around car might seem like sacrilege but indeed for most people a tuned (and that part is key) 535 is the better car for a myriad of reasons.

Before we get into the hows and whys let me first put out some of the fire raging in the bellies of M5 owners the world over: your car is absolutely awesome and I say this as a previous owner of a 2006. The S85 V10 M5 was probably the last true 4 door supercar made. Nobody has a bigger appreciation for the sound of the wailing V10 or the instantaneous engagement of the next cog from the often criticized SMG transmission. Then there's the sheer madness of pressing the M button while accelerating just to feel the difference between 400hp and 507. Yes, the V10 M5 is a monster and given BMW's recent direction I think it's safe to say it will go down as the best M5 in history but unless you're road racing on the weekends and driving home from the track there's a better car out there. As a previous owner of an M5 I approach this as someone that's had both cars and has an appreciation for both, not as someone trying to justify their choice of the "inferior" car. So then why is the 535 better?

1. It is insanely, stupidly powerful - In stock trim the 535 is a pretty fun car. It's twin turbo 3 liter inline 6 puts out 300 horsepower at the crank or so BMW says. Much like all BMW turbo mills the 535 tends to be under-rated from the factory and generally puts down nearly it's crank rated horsepower number to the wheels. That was fast enough to make the 550i virtually obsolete. In fact, the 550i was 200lbs heavier up front which made it noticeably nose-heavy, got worse gas mileage and came in at a $10,000 premium over an equally equipped 535, all that for a car that was marginally faster. So the 535 right out of the wrapper is a pretty stout car. Now let's add onto that a tune to get the boost up. Suddenly you find yourself with a 400hp car. Hey that's fast! Yes, yes it is.

It gets better. Let's add an intake to that and a few gallons of e85. Now you find yourself with a car that has a hair over 400 horsepower at the wheels or about 450 - 470hp at the crank and similar amounts of torque. This kind of power is obnoxious and it's in a car that doesn't suffer from the bloat of newer BMWs. In fact the 535 weighs around 3700lbs depending on how you option it. To put that in perspective, it's only about 100 lbs heavier than the equivalent 335. For some more perspective consider that at this point you're working with about 30 less wheel horsepower than an M5 in P500 mode (507hp) and over 100 more ft/lbs of torque.

2. It's a faster street car - Torque is what moves cars. Torque is the reason Audi's new 4.0T A8 picked up a mere 50hp over it's predecessor yet chopped a full 1.5 seconds off it's quarter mile time. Turbo cars have a lot of torque and they generally have it over a much broader portion of their powerband. Now to be fair, the M5 has an amazingly flat torque curve for a naturally aspirated engine but at 380 ft/lbs of torque it comes up about 120 ft/lbs shy of a tuned 535 with an E85 mix which is sitting just a tick over 500. That is a butt load of torque available almost instantaneously in a car that's nearly 300lbs lighter due to it's lighter drivetrain. What this translates to in real life is a car that's faster than the M5 in just about any stoplight to stoplight encounter and pretty much any matchup other than a high speed roll race and even then, you need to be going really fast to see the M5's diminished straight line advantage over the forcefed 535.

3. It's one of the best handling sedans ever made - This one probably requires the least selling. The E60 5 series has long been heralded as one of the best handling sedans ever, regardless of trim. The M5 takes things to a level of insanity that's best exploited on the track but a sport package 535 is no slouch. Take for instance the active suspension which gives you all the benefits of thick sway bars without any of the downsides. It accomplishes this by putting a hydraulic coupling in the middle of each sway bar. During normal driving the sway bars are effectively de-coupled and as a result you don't get the hopping over bumps or the rough ride generally associated with large bars but the moment you start slinging it through the turns the hydraulic coupler pre-loads the sway bar, effectively pushing against the forces acting on the outer side of the car. This results in a car that has almost no discernible body roll in a turn.

Demonstration of BMW's active suspension.

In addition to that the sport suspension gets you a stiffer, lower suspension and wider tires as well as seats with side bolstering aggressive enough to keep you in check but kind enough to retract when the door is open for easy entry/ exit. Stick some good rubber on there and you have a street car that far matches or exceeds the abilities of just about any other modern performance sedan. I can't think of a car I've driven that is easier to drive or more predictable than the E60 5 series. There are cars that make great drivers look just ok and cars that make ok drivers look great. The E60 is the latter and you won't care because you'll be having too much fun. The fact that this is a 4 door sedan is really irrelevant. The E60 isn't only an amazing handling sedan; it's an amazing handling car . The M5 takes those abilities to a level of insanity best exploited at the track and indeed if your plan is to regularly subject your car to sustained road racing the M5 is by far the better car.

4. It gets better gas mileage - In P400 mode (400hp) the M5 will net you about 12 miles per gallon in the city and 18 on the highway, assuming reasonable driving of course. The 535 in it's 400hp tune will result in 18 mpg in the city and 28 on the highway, again assuming reasonable driving. This is especially important when you consider the E60's painfully small gas tank. You're lucky to get 200 miles out of a tank of gas with the M5.

5. It runs on corn - Let's say you happen to be close to a gas station that serves up E85 on it's menu and let's also say that you're the type of person that's looking for an additional 40 - 60hp. Toss in a few gallons of E85, set the tuner to auto-tune and there you have it. This takes you from the standard 400hp tune to roughly 450hp (depending on how much drivetrain loss you think there is). Here's a 535 putting down over 400 horsepower and nearly 430 ft/lbs of torque to the wheels on an intake, a tune and E85. All told, that's an investment of $600 above and beyond your purchase price of the car.

6. It's more reliable - There's a few terms you learn when owning an M5: SMG and VANOS. You learn these terms because these items will fail or experience some kind of issue. It's not an if kind of thing, rather a when (at least in the case of SMG) . And when they do fail your wallet will be thousands of dollars lighter. See, the M5 uses a rather unique transmission setup in that it's a full manual transmission with a traditional clutch only without a clutch pedal because you're slow and you're going to ruin the experience with your slow shifts and BMW doesn't want you ruining the experience. So every time you tell the car to go up or down a cog the computer tells a complicated hydraulic system to release the clutch, switch the gear and then re-engage the clutch and it does this in 60 milliseconds. To put that in perspective, semi-auto Ferrari boxes of the same vintage did it in 100ms.

At the heart of this system is a pump that maintains hydraulic pressure. This pump fails and when it fails you lose the ability to shift gears. Your car will inform you that you're about to be $4000 poorer by displaying a red gear cog on the driver information display, affectionately referred to as the Red Cog of Death. Then there's the clutch which costs $4000 - $5000 $2600 when replacement is required and though it can last upwards of 100,000 miles, many fail well before that, especially when driven in congested areas where the SMG system tends to ride the clutch. All of the sudden you're wishing you had that clutch pedal.

So then what about the 535? On stock turbos it's pretty much bullet proof. The most popular tuner (Burger Tuning's JB4) will default to stock boost levels if it experiences an over-boost situation and in my years of lurking on the forums I've yet to see mention of someone blowing their engine. The car isn't without it's problems though. Fuel injectors are a common failure point though not hard to replace. Carbon buildup is another easily remedied problem inherent to direct injection engines and the N54 is no exception here. Others might tell you the turbo 6 engines are notorious for failures of the high pressure fuel pump and the turbos. While it's true that early versions of the high pressure fuel pump were prone to failure, BMW has since released a revised pump with much improved reliability and they increased the warranty on the stock pump to 125,000 miles, regardless of your current warranty status. Turbos generally don't fail but the waste gates do rattle. BMW has also addressed this and again extended the warranty to cover existing cars. 83,000 miles of coverage there.

Other than that, the only consistently failing component is going to be rear tires.

7. It's cheaper to maintain - If you're daily driving your super-sedan and you're in a congested area like me (Los Angeles) you're going to eat through clutches more often on the M5 and when you do they're going to cost you about $4,000 to replace. Your rotors are going to cost you $400… each . These are the major differences but the small stuff adds up too. Differential fluid changes, spark plugs (10 of them), SMG service, the premium you pay to have someone that actually knows enough about the car to service it and basically everything that comes with owning an exotic 10 cylinder car. A lot of M5 owners get tricked by the low cost of entry (low $20,000's for a 2006 w/ higher miles) and then quickly discover that the car might cost them more to own than it did to buy.

The 535 is going to require semi-frequent carbon removal from the intake as well as spark plugs. If you get the manual transmission you'll be dealing with clutch replacement costs as well but this really isn't a car that you want to get a manual in. The Sport Automatic Transmission is amazing and you won't be bleeding off boost between shifts.

8. It's cheap to buy - Take for instance this !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! or this other !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , both with the necessary sport package and both with reasonable miles. If you want to get into a 2008 M5 you're looking at a premium of about $10,000. The hard part here is finding a nicely optioned 535. While the M5's are all pretty much optioned to the gils, the 535 was technically the mid-level 5 series and thus they are harder to find with all the bells and whistles. They are out there though and you won't pay much more for a loaded one than you would for a stripped one so hold out.

9. It has an awesome secret transmission - Tick the box for the sport package and you're half way there. Tick another box for the sport automatic transmission and you've gained entry to one of the best automatic transmissions out there. In auto mode the 6 speed ZF gear box is buttery soft but kick the shifter over to the left and press the sport button and you're dealing with an entirely different beast. Upshifts are firm and instantaneous, downshifts are preceded by a blip of the throttle and you have full control over the gear you're in. Want to bounce off the rev limiter in 2nd? Go nuts! I came from a 550i with the 6 speed manual gear box and want for nothing with the auto. I never find myself missing the manual transmission. Pro Tip: SAT/ Sport Auto Transmission is only available in rear wheel drive versions of the car with the sport package and is identified by the presence of a "Sport" button directly beneath the gear shifter as well as a shorter, stubbier shifter.

10. The tuner is the coolest thing ever - Most tuners are dumb. You plug them into the OBD II port, upload a flash and drive the car. What happens happens. Burger Tuning's JB4 tuner is not dumb. It installs between the vehicle's harness and computer and is left in the car. You control it through the steering wheel buttons and interact with the instrument cluster which becomes your menu system. Almost every aspect of the tuner is controllable through the steering wheel controls but that's not all. Here are a few other things.

It reads your codes and displays them through your instrument cluster

Change tunes on the fly. Go from your 93 octane tune to your race fuel tune to your E85 tune all on the fly. There's even a valet tune that disables the turbos and limits RPM.

It auto tunes itself. Throw some e85 in the tank, stick it in map 5 and go for a few wide open throttle 3rd gear pulls. The tuner will constantly determine what the maximum amount of boost is that it can safely run so if you couldn't get to a gas station with E85 for this fill-up don't worry. The tuner will detect this and knock you back down to safe boost levels. Seriously, how cool is that? Answer: really, really fucking cool.

Shift Lights! Set your desired RPM and your turn signal indicators will light up when you hit it, telling you to shift.

It's safe! When you start the car it will remain at stock boost levels until the oil temperature reaches 160 degrees. Go too far above boost targets and it reverts you back to stock boost levels. I can't remember seeing a stock turbo car with an engine failure and you can go far on the stock turbos.

There's a slew of other stuff but you get the point. The JB4 tuner is what makes this car a contender.

Is it always the better car? No. The S85 M5 is probably the closest you can get to driving a 4 door super car and for the prices it commands used it is a tremendous value so long as you're realistic about the cost of ownership. If you're the type of person that finds themselves taking their daily driver on a race track on a regular basis the M5 is the better car. In fact, in just about everything beyond flat out acceleration the M5 is indeed the better car. It's just that the standard E60 is such a great car to begin with that you need to consider that you might be paying tens of thousands of dollars more for a car who's abilities you'll never fully exploit.

So which is the best one to buy? Unlike the M5, the 535 can be had in many flavors. Sport and non-sport packages, a wagon, xDrive, M-Sport, etc. From a driver's perspective the best version of the car is the rear wheel drive sedan with the sport package and sport automatic transmission. Xdrive (all wheel drive) versions of the car don't get the sport suspension even if you have the sport package and drive entirely too soft. Likewise with the non-sport package rear wheel drive cars which are also too soft for really spirited driving. If you're also looking for the M5 look make sure you get an M-Sport model which gives you larger wheels, M5 style front and rear bumpers and side skirts.

Mike Kopstain is an entrepreneur, owner of a performance auto parts company for front wheel drive 3800 powered GM vehicles and serial purchaser of used luxury cars. He's also a narcissist who writes because he likes to read his own words. That's sick isn't it? Yeah, that's sick.

DISCUSSION (100)

Manuél Ferrari > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 11:52

But bespoke V10 though...

55Buick, Oversteer Scientist > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 11:56

One reason the M5 is better: POWER

Mike Kopstain > 55Buick, Oversteer Scientist
07/21/2014 at 12:02

You don't think the 500 ft/lbs of torque in a tuned 535 is enough to shred some tires? It won't sound as nice doing it 500 lbs of twist is more than enough.

Brian Silvestro > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:16

So basically,

If you want to keep your car stock, buy the M5.

And it's your okay with modifying, get the 535i.

MK6GTI-now with added Miata > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:16

Nah, I still want the V10. Sorry. It's a freaking V10.

Wishin & workin for an E39 M5 > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:18

So you're saying, if you can't get a manual e60 M5, then the best everyday option is a 535i sport model, with a tune device?

Party-vi > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:18

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Fixed that for 'ya :3

Also, the N54 has double VANOS, so I wouldn't call the S85 having VANOS a disadvantage. Also also, I've dreamed of getting a sleeper 535i with a Dinan or JB4 for a while now.

Wishin & workin for an E39 M5 > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:20

Kinja'd!!!

I like this cars looks, but I hate the F10 wheels. The 550i m-sport wheels are amazing looking:

Mike Kopstain > Party-vi
07/21/2014 at 12:21

Largely the VANOS system hasn't been an issue with the N54 though but it's a semi-regular problem with the S85, if only for the noise they tend to make.

Mike Kopstain > MK6GTI-now with added Miata
07/21/2014 at 12:22

Well you can't go wrong with it. It sounds like a diesel at startup and like a symphony at wide open throttle.

Party-vi > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:22

I've heard that noise is pretty much the only issue you'll have with VANOS. I haven't had any problems with my M54 yet but we'll see as it inches closer to 150k.

Mike Kopstain > Wishin & workin for an E39 M5
07/21/2014 at 12:23

You can actually get a manual E60 M5. BMW offered a 6 speed starting in 2007 but it largely neutered the car and the car was never designed with a manual transmission in mind.

My argument is that the best everyday option is the 535 with a tune regardless of what transmission you get in the M5.

Mike Kopstain > Brian Silvestro
07/21/2014 at 12:24

You just took a lot of paragraphs and summed them up in three sentences. Thanks for making me look long winded. Oh, and yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

twinturbobmw > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:24

But you'll need to buy an aftermarket LSD to really have some fun...

heeltoehero > Wishin & workin for an E39 M5
07/21/2014 at 12:25

They're e63 M6 wheels. These are F10 wheels.

535i

Kinja'd!!!

Less concave and more detail in the spokes.

55Buick, Oversteer Scientist > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:26

But the point of the 535 is to be more usable...if you're going to tune it for more power, why not buy an M5?

Brian Silvestro > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:27

Hehe, you did make a lot of good points, and you're reasoning is pretty on point.

I'd still buy an M5 though. From Carmax.

Wishin & workin for an E39 M5 > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:27

I am aware of the manual e60 m5's, i drool over them daily as I search all over the internet. But, without the SMG the e60 m5 becomes a very reliable car.

Mike Kopstain > Wishin & workin for an E39 M5
07/21/2014 at 12:29

But also a very different car. It was designed with the SMG in mind and in my opinion the SMG transmission makes that car. The V10 obviously assists but most of the reviews for the manual transmission version that I read were not so kind.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
07/21/2014 at 12:29

Best 535i of all time! (E12)

Mike Kopstain > 55Buick, Oversteer Scientist
07/21/2014 at 12:30

For all the reasons I stated. It's no less usable with more power. It's more reliable, gets better gas mileage, easier to work on, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to fix and has more torque than you can shake a stick at.

Wishin & workin for an E39 M5 > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:32

Having driven the SMG version (an 06 with 50k miles and a few subtle mods), it was overwhelmingly fast, so fast I had no point of reference, because it would shift and keep accelerating so quickly, and then in order to corner I had to massively apply brakes (more so than a manual anything) I would love to test out a 6 speed version.

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 12:33

MMMMMMM WANT

Mike Kopstain > twinturbobmw
07/21/2014 at 12:33

Not at all… The LSD is a nice thing to have and an obvious omission from the 535 but traction isn't an issue so long as you have decent rubber on the car. It would make powering out of turns easier but again, the e60 as a platform is so far above most sedans in this regard to begin with that I doubt your average owner would ever miss it.

Manuél Ferrari > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:34

I was thinking about something the other day - the E60 M5 might be the best sounding sedan of all time at WOT.

Can you think of a better sounding (stock) sedan?

MK6GTI-now with added Miata > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:35

Only problem for me would be snow. My neighbour had a black E60 M5 and the thing could barely make it out of the garage when it snowed. So the 535 would have the advantage there with xDrive.

Saracen > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:35

I liked reading this article until it mentioned some nonsense about automatic transmissions.

N51fanatic > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:37

What about HPFP failure? What about carbon buildup? What about the fact that you would still be driving an E60 either way?

Mike Kopstain > Wishin & workin for an E39 M5
07/21/2014 at 12:40

Those are actually M6 wheels. I wanted the M5 wheels and was looking at replicas but one day one of my run-flats ran flat so I hit up Craigslist to see what was available and these are what I found. They are actual M6 staggered rims with brand new rubber on them and had been taken off new and replaced . I talked the guy down to $700 for all 4.

For $700 I couldn't even get new tires. It was an amazing deal. I've fallen in love with them. The M-Sport wheels you pictured are indeed nice as well.

Mike Kopstain > N51fanatic
07/21/2014 at 12:41

Did you read the post?

Mike Kopstain > Saracen
07/21/2014 at 12:42

After seeing your screen name I can at least commend you for being consistent.

Mike Kopstain > MK6GTI-now with added Miata
07/21/2014 at 12:44

The problem with the XDrive cars is that they don't get the true sport suspension. Plus the rear wheel drive cars are fine in the snow. I drove this through a Chicago winter on summer 285mm rear rubber and the only days I couldn't drive it were the days the roads were actually covered in snow. Add a set of snow tires to it and it perfectly competent in the snow.

I view xDrive as a needless compromise on most BMW's.

Mike Kopstain > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 12:45

Maserati Quattroporte has to be right there with it. Ferrari V8.

Saracen > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:45

It's a tough job, but someone's gotta save the manuals.

Jarvis Lee Jenkins > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:45

Damn good article, this article tasted better than my Mexican breakfast. I should have bought one last year, I was fooled into getting an Infiniti M35, good car but sounds like you have found a mighty steed worthy of flogging. I am a bike guy, Ducati's and Moto Guzzi's turn me on. But reading this, makes me want to go get a 535, bad.

Manuél Ferrari > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:48

Oh yeah!!!

I always forget about that car.

Because the maintenance costs scare me even more than the E60 M5, haha

MK6GTI-now with added Miata > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:50

Maybe the issue is that they never have a snow set. Another neighbour's 650 was pretty awful in the snow too, I guess he traded it for a newer xDrive model. xDrive is pretty nice to have, my dad's has it and it's often nicer to have a car that's good in the snow to one that's just competent.

55Buick, Oversteer Scientist > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 12:56

That's true. The M5s weren't known for their reliability, were they...

daryl bowden > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 13:14

As someone who owned a 2008 535i w/ the sport package, I can tell you it was a great car. When it ran. I bought that car CPO from Pacific BMW (glendale for all you LA folks) and thank god because it had numerous issues with the high pressure fuel pump, the transmission completely failed 2 times. Along with various other small, but plentiful issues.

Eventually BMW just bought it back from me, but I actually spent as much of my ownership driver a loaner 328i as I did my 535i. Allegedly the issues with the HPFP were resolved in the 2009+ cars, but I would never buy one again.

Fuel_of_Satan > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 13:14

Some enjoy being technically faster, some enjoy the journey of getting around. Nothing wrong with either, but I'll take the V10 as well.

Manuél Ferrari > Fuel_of_Satan
07/21/2014 at 13:18

I love noise more than anything else!

I would get after market exhaust and smile like a little kid every time I go under a freeway overpass with the windows down and sunroof open

ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 13:23

I love my 535 with a tune but I don't like that it is the xDrive because I'm in the south and I don't need it. (I also don't have the sport suspension) So even though the car could be better, we can't discount it too much. It still handles like a BMW and it's still a rocket. Although I wish I could spin the tires on a whim, it's probably better for my checkbook that I can't. I don't know what I'll ever replace this car with down the road, except for the same car as a wagon, with a sport suspension, and a manual! Seriously, I think about it regularly and I don't have an answer.

Fuel_of_Satan > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 13:24

Open wide!

Manuél Ferrari > Fuel_of_Satan
07/21/2014 at 13:26

I see it!

WhatDaFunk > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 13:28

You make a compelling argument, I kinda want an E60 535i now.

Fuel_of_Satan > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 13:31

I just love these things and I can't believe they're not more common. They've been around for ages, I had a set on my Trans Am nearly 10 years ago and I was inspired by this in the first place:

Humbler! The Humbler! GTO! GTO!

Wishin & workin for an E39 M5 > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 13:36

There is a very nice set of e60 m5 wheel on nashville craigslist for $600, no tires though

Mike Kopstain > daryl bowden
07/21/2014 at 13:50

2008 is really the issue there. Only the second year for the engine and the first for the engine in the e60. High pressure pump problems were plenty back in those days. The problem was pretty much licked in 2009. I've had minimal problems with my 2010 though it only has 37,000 miles.

Manuél Ferrari > Fuel_of_Satan
07/21/2014 at 14:20

That video is awesome! "This is the way it's going to be, baby". lol

daryl bowden > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 14:48

Honestly if it were just the HPFP it would've been fine. That tranny, as awesome as it was when it worked, was just a nightmare for me.

I still think that BMW makes the best drivers cars, I just don't think they're worth it anymore. Plus, MB makes the best engines on this planet, and they've been far more reliable for me, so I choose to give them my money now (plus my '13 E550 is a total sleeper - a non-AMG with 40o+ hp AND torque at the wheels? WAY more fun than my old 535i, just doesn't corner as nicely).

ethanheisler > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 15:33

Who's to say what sounds better, but the S65 and Rapide sound pretty incredible when opened up.

Manuél Ferrari > ethanheisler
07/21/2014 at 15:35

I forgot about the Rapide! I never see them on the road.

I have the S65 so I definitely gusta it. I just get jealous sometimes when I drive by my sedan's big bro the M5. Especially if it has after market exhaust...

ethanheisler > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 15:49

It really is a silly car. The back seats are almost unusable and it's not as nice to drive as the cheaper V12 Vantage or even a Panamera Turbo S.

What year is your S65? I have an 04' S55 that gets driven maybe once a month but I'm not sure it's even worth getting rid of.

Mike Kopstain > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 15:52

Yeah the DuoSelect transmission was notorious for it's issues, just like SMG. I'm a sucker for that car though. I'm always one bad decision away from having one in my driveway.

Manuél Ferrari > ethanheisler
07/21/2014 at 15:52

I did hear the back seats aren't very usable

Oh sorry I thought you meant the S65 engine in the E9X M3. I have a 2011 E90 M3

Nice you have an S55. Would be cool to keep it until it's a classic

Mike Kopstain > Wishin & workin for an E39 M5
07/21/2014 at 15:54

Find someone with a tuned 535 or 335 with the sport package. Drive it. Enjoy. Spend the next 6 months searching for the perfect one to buy because once you do the math, you will.

Manuél Ferrari > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 15:54

Is it derived from the Ferrari F1 box?

Mike Kopstain > daryl bowden
07/21/2014 at 15:56

I feel the same way about Audi's 4.0T V8. 420hp, equal amounts of torque and a 12.6 second 1/4 mile time out of a limo? My other car is a 2007 A8 and nice as it is, it's not what you'd call fast but that's literally my only complaint with the car. With the newer higher horsepower engines Audi and Merc are putting in their "regular" cars you have more options than ever.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 15:56

Y'know, my buddy has a 2009 535i xDrive, and I've been unimpressed. It's fast in a straight line, it rides very nicely, but the steering is numb and ultimately the grip limits are not that high (he has Pilot Sports on it, so I can't entirely blame the tires for that) The ride, as you mention is too soft for "sporting" driving. The brakes feel like mush, and make the car feel heavier than it is. The trans is quick and smooth and overall very nice for an auto, but it's not as good as the new 8-speed ZF, or an honest to god manual.

It's a nice car, I won't deny that, but it's certainly not "special" Maybe I ride in an M-sport RWD version would change my tune, but for the mean time I'm very "meh" about that vintage 535i.

Mike Kopstain > Jarvis Lee Jenkins
07/21/2014 at 15:57

You can have mine! It's up for sale. I'm getting a dealer's license which will afford me the opportunity to drive what ever ridiculously over the top car I've bought from auction so I can't justify keeping the BMW. It's by far the best car I've owned though. I heart it very much.

ethanheisler > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 16:00

Ah sorry I should've picked up that when you said your cars big brother!

Mike Kopstain > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/21/2014 at 16:03

Here's a fun story… The day before I bought my 535 I went out to a local dealer and checked out an xDrive model they had. At the time I had already owned an E60 M5 and did own an E60 550 with the sport package and a 6 speed with a clutch.

The xDrive car drove like a completely different vehicle for all the reasons you mentioned. It leans, it's not necessarily a great handling car, steering is meh and the transmission is not available with the sport auto option which means that while it's good, it's certainly not great. The non-sport 535's also get smaller brakes which explains that complaint. The next day I gave it back to the dealer, spent $5000 over my budget and bought my 2010 M-Sport. I have no regrets.

Go out and drive an E60 5 series with the sport package and the sport automatic transmission. It doesn't even have to be a 535. A 550 would suffice. It's like driving a completely different car.

Mike Kopstain > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 16:05

God I hope not… Else you'll start seeing mint condition examples in junkyards that have been totaled out by their failing gearbox.

Manuél Ferrari > ethanheisler
07/21/2014 at 16:08

Haha no worries, I was still too vague

My E90 has the DCT. A stick shift E60 would be the perfect garage mate :)

PNW20v > MK6GTI-now with added Miata
07/21/2014 at 16:09

Sorry, I want boost. Because goddamn boost. Im the opposite of all the "OMG I NEED N/A" fanboys. I need boost.

Manuél Ferrari > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:09

tell me about it!

My dad spends all year getting the F1 in his F430 to work. He fixes it then it breaks again. And again...

Fragile_this_side_up > MK6GTI-now with added Miata
07/21/2014 at 16:11

It is all about the tires. I will take my Civic on snow tires vs your dads' xDrive any day. I have no issue saying it will accelerate quicker, brake faster, and turn better than an xDrive on all season tires.

Viperfan1 > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:12

Minimal problems on a car that's 4 years old and has less than 40k miles? It should have zero issues at all until 80k unless it's Korean(which isn't even true anymore), has an M/AMG/RS badge, or cost over $100k.

bpromersberger > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:12

I absolutely adore the V10. I was once lucky enough to see one fly by me with strait pipes, and such glory can't be illustrated. But I agree on every aspect. What do I want? An M5. What would I actually buy? a 535, especially because the wagon version is just sex.

Mike Kopstain > Viperfan1
07/21/2014 at 16:14

It's all relative. Minimal problems are spark plugs and a couple failing injectors. The spark plugs were probably fine and the issue was exposed because of my high horsepower setup. The injectors are an admittedly weak point on a lot of direct injection cars.

PumpedSump > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:14

But what's my long term reliability with a tune? Not that the V10 is the bastion of reliability though...

bpromersberger > Party-vi
07/21/2014 at 16:15

A guy down the street from me has a 535i Wagon with JB4. I was in my E39 and grew insanely jealous.

Mike Kopstain > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 16:15

I find myself sometimes fawning over the 335iS just for the DCT and sport exhaust. Then I snap back to reality and realize what I could buy given the difference in price between it and what I have.

LJ909 > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:16

So is this like saying a last gen 335i is better then a last gen M3, or a last gen 328i is better then a last gen 335i?

Ive always liked the last gen M5 and its V10, but was always off put but the high hp to low torque rating.

VivaLaManual > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:16

Can I get it with a real manual? Also, what are the tune numbers like for non-E85 fuel?

macanamera > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:16

I know you already said it but go to 1:40 and turn your sound producing devices to their maximums:

Sweet Trav > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:16

Nah, I still want the new Turbo V8

The V10 can suck it. sounds like a turd too.

macanamera > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 16:17

There isn't one. Go to 1:40 and enjoy, Rusto.

Mike Kopstain > PumpedSump
07/21/2014 at 16:18

I mentioned it in the article but I've yet to see an engine failure mentioned at all, certainly not on stock turbos. Under the turbos is a BMW inline 6 which let's face it, BMW has been making them bullet proof for basically forever.

The transmission might be a sore spot on early cars but like the high pressure fuel pump something tells me they've all since been replaced. Other than that you have an E60 which is a relatively reliable car all around if you completely ignore the 2004 - 2005 545i. :-)

G8GT364 > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:18

Havent seen you on ClubGp in a while Mike. Nice write up.

theodric > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:18

Very compelling. Pity it's so goddamn ugly, though.

Mike Kopstain > G8GT364
07/21/2014 at 16:18

Thanks!

Wishin & workin for an E39 M5 > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:19

I might do that, need to make some friends at all right now, just moved to a new city for work. But I don't even really want an e60, what I want most in the automotive world is a well sorted and not beat to hell e39 M5. I think I can handle the maintenance since I'm coming from a Land Rover, haha. The e60 sure sounded nice at WOT though.

Damasconian > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:21

Great bit of info compairng the weights of various models. Cant believe it only weighs 3700lbs! The new M3/4 is a happy meal away from that same weight.

But one topic you didn't discuss was looks. The M5 looks the part. It may not matter to some gearheads, but it matters to others.

Good write up. Well done.

Mike Kopstain > VivaLaManual
07/21/2014 at 16:21

You can though they are noticeably slower because you tend to bleed boost between shifts unless you're beating the snot out of the gearbox. A premium gas tune I believe nets you 400-ish hp at the crank, nothing to sneeze at.

Ry-bones, FiST pilot > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 16:24

I'll be in my bunk.

Built BMW Tough > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:24

Kinja'd!!!

Here's 10 reasons why it isn't.

Tatanko > MK6GTI-now with added Miata
07/21/2014 at 16:25

I have to agree. I'm crazy for high cylinder counts, especially V10s. That recent era of engines was a very short but very sweet time for me: the Carrera GT, M5/M6, S6/S8, Viper, LFA, and Gallardo/R8 were all wonderful V10-powered passenger cars of the time (and some still are).

The AMG 6.2L cars of the same time period also get special mention.

Mike Kopstain > Damasconian
07/21/2014 at 16:26

I know right!? I was shocked when I found out how light it was. And it handles like a car that doesn't even weigh that much. The difference is noticeable too. My 535 is noticeably more spry than my 550 was.

As for looking the part, you can get 90% of the way there by buying one with the M-Sport option package like mine. Add some M5/ M6 replica wheels and you're just about all the way there. If you want to get really crazy go ahead and convert it to quad exhaust like I did.

Kinja'd!!!

The exhaust cost me $200 and the diffuser is made of carbon fiber and ran just $250. Completely makes the ass end of the car.

PumpedSump > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:27

Had a '07 335i that I put a JB4 in with 3" downpipes and an intake. Was putting out ~390 hp at the wheels. Ate two coil packs in the 35,000 miles I put on it with the tune. (Purchased at ~35,000 miles, sold at 70,000 miles). Also, when I sold it, it started burning a small bit of oil on cold start ups. Loved the car, but couldn't help feeling that I significantly shortened its life with the tune and everything.

Mike Kopstain > PumpedSump
07/21/2014 at 16:28

But again, 2007. First year jitters there. And it might likely have been from the tune but it also could have just as easily been because it was a first model year car. I know that if you had the rattling waste gate issue that ate some turbos and that could result in oil consumption though this would now be covered by BMW in their 83,000 mile turbo warranty.

Mike Kopstain > Built BMW Tough
07/21/2014 at 16:29

Touche.

X-cchannel-M > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:29

I, too, have a preference for the more powerful non-M models, though the 550i would be higher on my list. They are just more effective in daily driving, especially torque-wise. Put E85 in a HPFP Bimmer? Not if I can help it...

Mike Kopstain > LJ909
07/21/2014 at 16:31

Funny you say that… I've been saying for a couple years now that I think this is the better car for most people and Jalopnik had an article a couple months ago that mentioned the worst car people and one of them was non-M owners who insist their model is better than the M equivalent. I've never felt less self-aware but I think the point stands. The 535 can be the better car for most people without taking anything away from the awesomeness that is the M5. The two are mutually exclusive.

SHO & BRZ > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:31

You didn't happen to run a Taurus SHO based performance company about a decade ago did you?

Mike Kopstain > X-cchannel-M
07/21/2014 at 16:32

I can appreciate your concern but I've got 20,000 hard miles on this setup with nary a hiccup. Bad plugs and a few bad injectors who's only symptom was a delayed cold start. That's the extent of it. The 550 was amazing and the torque was nice. That's a car I'd actually prefer with a stick.

Mike Kopstain > SHO & BRZ
07/21/2014 at 16:33

I absolutely did. Midwest SHO.

daryl bowden > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:35

Yeah, but for all the benefits of DI, it is well worth a little less reliability in terms of the injectors.

ab3 > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:36

#11 You can get a 535i wagon here in the states but not an M5 wagon

LJ909 > Mike Kopstain
07/21/2014 at 16:37

That article was exactly right too. I remember reading it. Ive encountered em myself. 335 owners seem to be more douchey and think they can out run M3's and dont get me started on the 535 owners with an M sport package. But if it was my money I would get the 535 like you did. Like you said, alot of the owners underestimate the costs and complexity of this gen of M5. V10 and complex gearbox dont mix well. I see alot of young guys my age in em and I wonder how they can afford the up keep.