Why nobody talks about AMG?

"RotaryLover" (rotarylover) 07/17/2014 at 21:33 • Filed to: amg

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Every time someone searches for a sporty luxury car, all I hear about is, BMW this, M that, get a G35 or a Audi S"X" and yadayadayada. AMG almost never gets mentioned. Why exactly?

Because it's not reliable?

- Apparently, as long as you don't get ones with force induction, you're safe. Exactly like BMWs.

Because they don't have a manual (newer models)?

- That's a point...but did you try the auto on it before saying that?

Because they are expensive?

- Look at the prices on kijiji/craigslist. They are going dowwwwnnnnn. And are cheaper to get than BMWs with the same performance and year. It might be a little more expensive maintenance wise...but just a bit and it seems quite DIY friendly.

Because no LSD?

- For example, the c55 AMG doesn't come equiped with an LSD but has something else.

"To compensate for a lack of a true LSD, Mercedes relies on the ASR (electronic traction control system) and ESP in the C55. By braking any drive wheel which is slipping, it simulates a true LSD by making the open differential send more power to the drive wheel with more traction. It's a "reactive" system, meaning that the wheel has to slip before the car will brake that wheel, but it works pretty well in almost any situation on normal roads." - PC Valkyrie from the MB world forum.

So what are the other reasons why AMG never gets mentioned?

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:36

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In Soviet Russia, AMG mentions you.

Brian Silvestro > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:37

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Aren't they all unreliable? EL_ULY constantly tells me that hand-built engines are easily the least reliable engines ever.

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:37

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Too expensive.

DanZman > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:39

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I think its because people(myself included) tend to think of AMG's as muscle cars, cruisers, or GTs. They just arent thought of in the same way.

RotaryLover > Brian Silvestro 07/17/2014 at 21:40

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I heard that non forced induction version are actually reliable.

DanZman > Brian Silvestro 07/17/2014 at 21:41

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This is true even with the LS7/LS9's in the Vette. I'm not sure about the LSA in the CTS-V tho

RotaryLover > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 07/17/2014 at 21:42

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Just a little bit.

RotaryLover > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 07/17/2014 at 21:43

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Kinja ate my title!

RotaryLover > DanZman 07/17/2014 at 21:44

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Interesting way to put it. I never thought I'd like a GT car.

Brian Silvestro > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:44

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Well he is a master engine technician. I'll see if I can find him and ask him to weigh in.

Isn't there an AMG Tech on oppo? (AMG Tech is literally his username)

He'll probably have some good stories to tell.

RotaryLover > Brian Silvestro 07/17/2014 at 21:48

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He did comment on one of my posts with the c55 amg videos. He might chime in...

ly2v8-Brian > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:49

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Personally I don't like the looks of the previous cars. Otherwise yes I would look into it.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:49

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Every single person I've ever heard from, known, talked to, or read about has said that long term, an AMG Mercedes is the least reliable, most expensive to maintain car ever conceived. You buy an 8 year old AMG for 20% of the original price, then spend as much as you paid for the car over the next couple years keeping it running, and much of the time will be spent in the shop.

That being said, I hear them recommended plenty, and would recommend one myself, so long as the person knows what they are getting into.

Crocket Bernet > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:49

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Because muscle car.

Brian Silvestro > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:50

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BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:51

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I think it most has to do with the disconnect from the road that most MBs are built with. They may be faster, but ultimately you're paying more for what could easily be considered less of a drivers car.

lone_liberal > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:52

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If I was in the market I probably wouldn't even think of them as AMG=ungodly expensive in my mind even if that's not really true in reality.

Shankems > Crocket Bernet 07/17/2014 at 21:54

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German muscle for sure. In a category way above any G, S, or, M vehicle.

AthomSfere > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:55

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In all honesty, they are nothing that I want besides badass engines.

No manual, that is a deal breaker - period. And it isn't performance, I am well aware that current flappy paddles can crush my best shift times, and have better accuracy but I want that extra connection with the car.

I want a car that begs "flog me" and Mercedes, as nice as they are... They just say "Protection from everything like deer, other drivers and road/ engine noise".

Styling: My favorite Mercs are out of production

And while this is purely subjective, their best looking semi-affordable cars are more eh, some meh and not much wowzah!

Of course for $200k things get better

But for that money, there are way too many cars that perform and look so much better:

Basically, I like them... But they are never the best choice and I have no real emotional connection with them.

Oh, and German cars are unreliable! Lease and then move on.

RotaryLover > ly2v8-Brian 07/17/2014 at 21:56

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Me neither. It started to go well with the c55 and upwards.

ly2v8-Brian > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 21:57

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yes

RotaryLover > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 07/17/2014 at 21:59

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Shit...I might change names again lol.

Vicente Esteve > Brian Silvestro 07/17/2014 at 22:44

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If I put a hand built engine plaque in a Corolla will it break down?

Brian Silvestro > Vicente Esteve 07/17/2014 at 22:47

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Probably.

FrankAtlanta > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 22:48

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Many have said it well. I had an AMG and it was utterly unreliable and ungodly expensive to fix. Upsides: great GT car as noted - unbelievable for eating-up the miles in comfort But…it was not a not a driver's car and I made the mistake of keeping it past the warranty...

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 22:52

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Never fear, AMGtech is here!

That was cheesy. Yes they are more expensive to maintain. But that is because there is more going on. If maintained properly they will easily out last any BMW M.

No, they do not all feel as disconnected as normal Mercedes. Some feel better than m3's. AMG is less track killer than all around performer, unlike is rivals.

Yes, forced induction will cost more to own, but I wouldn't say they anywhere near as unreliable as even an Audi 2.7t or 1.8t or BMW twin turbo straight six.

They are much more diy friendly than their competitors if you have some confidence.

Overall, AMG engines are fantastic, most their issues will pop up during the warranty period, if they make it that long they will last practically forever if properl maintained. If they don't make it that long, warranty will cover it and you should have nothing to worry about.

I work with two techs who recently converted from BMW, both of them are always saying that they would much rather own an AMG than an M, for overall fun/practicality and reliability. Everyone I know who owns Audi S/RS sell well before 100k. I have multiple customers who have done little more than prescribed maintenance on their 200k+ mile AMG's.

You can get them with a limited slip.

I think the SLS looks better than half of the Italian exotica available.

I would be more worried about electronics failures than mechanical, provided the car is maintained properly. Maintenance is key. That means do everything and don't skimp on parts. No quickie lube. No $2 parts store oil filter. Some of the engines have to be drained from multiple locations for an oil change, make sure you or whoever does your work knows what they are doing. I have a CLK Black customer who interviewed me for half an hour before allowing me to service his car.

Any more questions? I would be happy to answer.

Your boy, BJR > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 22:53

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I don't want my luxury having any attachment to plebes.

Vicente Esteve > Brian Silvestro 07/17/2014 at 23:02

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+

=

RotaryLover > Your boy, BJR 07/17/2014 at 23:10

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lol!

Dsscats > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 23:15

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Rotary...uh...C55AMG...uh...E46M3Lover!

offroadkarter > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 23:16

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I would much rather have an AMG over an infiniti

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/found-on-the-e…

RotaryLover > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/17/2014 at 23:18

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I feel much better now! What is your take on the c55? Any other MB models with great feel that I should look at the same price range? (under 18k)

RotaryLover > offroadkarter 07/17/2014 at 23:21

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Oh, that's neat!

RotaryLover > Dsscats 07/17/2014 at 23:23

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There's something that I don't like about BMW M3s...and I just hate the crowd that goes with bimmers, thanks for my friends.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 23:27

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Love it. Stupid reliable. My trainer, who works directly for AMG here in the US, owns one. He could drive anything. Also excellent is the c208, c209, w210 55's. Personally I'm looking for a decent c36/c43 or w210 e55. But the steering can feel a bit loose/fidgety on w202's. But there are tricks and fixes for that, unfortunately most people assume it's normal.

offroadkarter > RotaryLover 07/17/2014 at 23:32

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I really wish I had a reason to buy one of those, I already have a supercharged comfy couch car.

JGrabowMSt > RotaryLover 07/18/2014 at 02:11

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I think that the cost of maintenance forces neglect. That said, the 17 year old SL600 Sport with AMG tuning (because it wasn't officially an AMG badged car, just massaged by them and then delivered to the buyer) hasn't had any major mechanical problems. Times have changed though, I suppose.

Something I notice is that unlike the other performance models you mentioned, Mercedes cars are about image. They aren't about holding their value. If a Mercedes held it's value, owners would have no reason to buy a new on in order to keep up. The older ones are going through a two way split right now. The rare and nice ones are slowly beginning to regain their value. The not so nice ones are splitting into the cheap section, for people who have accepted that they wont get much money for them, and the expensive section, for people who think their cars are worth more than they are, and refuse to accept the fact that the cars are not an investment.

Outside of some pretty specific models throughout the years, a lot of Mercedes cars simply aren't worth much. Maybe people aren't buying because the prices are too high, or maybe perceived as too low, and being confused for a potential moneypit.

My guess at least. I'm willing to buy low now, and see what happens, provided I can get insurance for it.

Brian Silvestro > Vicente Esteve 07/18/2014 at 06:55

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Seems accurate!

RotaryLover > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/19/2014 at 21:24

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What about CL55 AMGs? What is your take on them?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RotaryLover 07/19/2014 at 22:37

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Ugly as sin, but fast. Great engine. Super comfortable. But at this age is going to be expensive to own because of the suspension and electronics. I would avoid unless you find one for well under 10k, and expect to use another 3-5k within first year of ownership for maintenence and repairs. Or low mileage with lots of service records. Read through those records and make sure everything that was recommended was done, not just the bare minimum stuff. Air suspension from those years would be better/cheaper to live with than ABC, though likely still expensive.

RotaryLover > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/19/2014 at 22:47

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Sticking to the c55 then. I found this one! Probably gonna do a test drive next week.

http://lauzonvolkswagen.autohebdo.net/used-inventory…

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RotaryLover 07/19/2014 at 22:58

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Nice! Decent price. Just make sure to get a pre-purchase inspection. Also, pretty sure those are not factory wheels, so make sure they're not bent and are the correct size/dimensions. Bad wheels can ruin the whole experience of driving an awesome car.

RotaryLover > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/19/2014 at 23:15

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How do the factory ones look? Should I do the inspection at a Mercedes dealership?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RotaryLover 07/20/2014 at 01:45

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They look pretty much the same, but no fake bolts around the edge. They look like Brabus wheels to me, which would be fine if they are. But if they turn out to be some Chinese knockoff shit, I would make the dealer either drop the price or put good wheels on it. It doesn't matter to me where you do it, I would just make sure that whoever does it is familiar with the car, not just w203, but AMG's as well. Preferably someone with an SDS/Xentry system to scan it. So probably a dealer, but there are some really great independents as well. I would ask them to check the alignment as well, if it's out that can be used to negotiate. And if spark plugs haven't been done see if they can cut a deal, there are 16 of them at $15-20? each and ~3 hours labor. Make sure the transmission has been serviced at least once by now, preferably twice. They're really pretty solid though and I would love to own one. Actually I would own any C or E AMG.

RotaryLover > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/20/2014 at 23:43

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Is there anything that I need to/can check myself at the test drive or visually? Any noise that I need to put my attention into?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RotaryLover 07/21/2014 at 02:30

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Make sure everything works. Make sure you like the car. You can look at the tires, all the way to the inside of the tread. You can look for oily wetness in the engine bay and under the car. Traces of water ingress or mold in the trunk. Some indications of previous accidents are aftermarket glass (no star logo) and inconsistent panel gaps. If something sounds odd, it probably is. But cheap tires can sound like a bad wheel bearing. Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention, water pumps like to go bad sometimes, wouldn't hurt to make sure it's pulley doesn't wobble or make a bunch of noise.