I LOVE this engine

"YSI-what can brown do for you" (ysi-what-can-brown-do-for-you) 07/15/2014 at 01:20 • Filed to: None

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If there was an engine to overthrow the Lamborghini V12, this would be it.

Sacrilege you say? NO! This is 200lbs lighter than a 2JZ.

GhostZ > YSI-what can brown do for you 07/15/2014 at 01:42

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This and the VK/VH engine have about the same rivalry and relationship as the 2JZ and RB26.

YSI-what can brown do for you > GhostZ 07/15/2014 at 01:48

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I am gonna have to side with the 1UZ on this one, but is is crazy how similar the VH41/Vh45 are to the 1UZ. The VH did some racing, the 1UZ was meant to be raced. So what to do with them but stuff them in luxury sedans. . .

GhostZ > YSI-what can brown do for you 07/15/2014 at 01:53

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What do you mean that the VH "did some racing"? It was put in more race cars than road cars arguably, when it was first made, and that's only gotten better since the VH update. It's the basis for both the Australian Touring Car engines, the Japanese Super GT engines, and the GT-R Le Mans cars, as well as a number of prototype racers.

YSI-what can brown do for you > GhostZ 07/15/2014 at 02:20

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Well it is just a saying, saying it did racing just feels awkward. . .

The 1UZ on the other hand did virtually none. It was in a Le Man car, a Daytona Prototype(although I can't find anything on that), and that is about it. It was based off IRL/CART engine designs though. It came with forged internals. OH! and 6 bolt main bearings! The 2UZ is not nearly as good, not as strong and it is heavier.

The 1UZ is smaller dimensionally and it is lighter! Although a VK56 is a good idea. . .

SPNKiX > YSI-what can brown do for you 07/15/2014 at 03:45

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I love the 1uZ. It's everything I love about well tuned, American v8s, without all the stuff I hate, like lumpy, farty idle.

I wish Toyota would do an even lighter one...

McMike > YSI-what can brown do for you 07/15/2014 at 05:31

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OK, so the 1UZ has a crossplane crank. Good to know.

GhostZ > YSI-what can brown do for you 07/15/2014 at 06:45

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The VH and VK are both forged internal 6-bolt mains with the same stroke (off by .2mm) as the 1UZ. However, the VH has a substantially larger engine block (weighed considerably more too) and much wider bore spacing to fit larger cylinder bores. For example, the bore spacing is so wide that the VK45 (4.5l with 93mm bores) has the SAME bore spacing as the VH56 (98mm bores). This means that every VK game with 1cm of extra cylinder wall than what was necessary, fitting massive cooling lines. That's one of the reasons they boost so well, and why they handle abuse in racing so well, for a street engine. They also used molybdenum components and a couple of experimental alloys, for better or worse, in many of their components.

So if the 1UZ is based on a cart engine, the VK45 is a cart engine with wider bores and much thicker/heavier blocks.

So basically, the VK and VH are like Mopar blocks, over-engineered, oversized, plenty of extra metal for boring out or sheer strength, and extremely expensive components. The 1UZ is closer to a Ford small block, with less weight and displacement and higher specific output, but less potential for massive power.

The VK56 actually isn't much better than the VK50. The VK45DE is actually the highest-performing of all of the VH/VK engines. The VK56VD is good, but that's because of the direct injection. If you put the same peak RPM, compression, and intake system that was on the VK45De, but with the 56VD's direct injection and added displacement, it would be a 470-500HP naturally aspirated street car engine, and in race trim, they already hit 650+ HP without boost. But right now, the VK56 is designed for fuel economy and low-end torque, not outright power like the VK45DE was, even though they share many components. It just so happens that the VK56 is also cheaper to get ahold of since they were put in more cars stateside.

Likewise, there's probably a lot I need to learn about the 1UZ. They ARE the only lexus/toyota engine I would want to swap into a car though.

GhostZ > McMike 07/15/2014 at 06:48

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Does anyone outside of Ferrari or Lamborghini make flat plane crank engines?

McMike > GhostZ 07/15/2014 at 07:02

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I think flat plane cranks really only work with V12s and inline, 90 °, and 180° engines. Not sure about the V10 from Lamborghini (which is not any of those)

GhostZ > McMike 07/15/2014 at 07:13

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Flat planes work with any 90 degree V engine, it just has it balanced like two inline engines. The Carrera GT V10 was flat plane, I think. The Lamborghini V10 is crossplane, I think.

I can't think of a single japanese flat plane crank engine. The LFA was a 72 degree angle engine, so I assume it had to be crossplane.

McMike > GhostZ 07/15/2014 at 08:22

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I believe with a crossplane engine, the journals need to be offset by 90°.

A V6 has to have even pins at every 60°, a V10 at every 72°, which (if following my understanding above) isn't crossplane.

However, it's impossible for a five journal engine to have a flat plane.

Lambo hasn't made a V8 since the Jalpa (1981-1988) which was a crossplane 90° V8

Depending on the V angle, it gets even more complicated. If you don't run a V6 at 60° or 120° V you need to split the shared pins in order to fire evenly over the 360° of crankshaft rotation (or every 120° - 720/6) Since the pins are shared, they are evenly spaced every 60°

Same goes for a V10. If you don't run a 72° V. you have to split the pins (below) The engine below is a 90° V10 from Lambo. They split the pins to compensate for the angle of the V. Oddly enough, they stopped splitting the pins in the later engines, resulting in firing every 90-54-90-54-90-54° instead of the even 72-72-72-72° of the engine shown below.

Why they did that, I don't know. It's very Harley of them (who also has an uneven firing order)

Imirrelephant > YSI-what can brown do for you 07/15/2014 at 08:50

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I had an '05 Titan with the VK56 engine. In truck tune it was fairly torquey, but it really came alive around 3k. It felt like it wasn't meant to be a truck engine, but still did pretty good at that job. I always thought it would make a good high revving engine for a lighter car once it was retuned and opened up. It appears I wasn't the only one...

YSI-what can brown do for you > GhostZ 07/15/2014 at 18:15

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I knew the 1UZ and the VH are pretty similar. It is kind of weird really. They were both developed for racing(I know Toyota wanted to use the 1UZ in GT500 racing), so I guess they would have similarities. However, I did not know about the spacing between the cylinders, may explain why they are about 50 to 100lbs heavier than a 1UZ. I would be more certain on this, but I can't find accurate weights on the engines.

Do you know how big a VH45 is? I know the 1UZ is shorter than an LS1 but it is a few cm taller than it(not by much though).

Also, 1UZs can be had for dirt cheap! Under 1000 bucks all day long! And there is a bigger(still tiny) aftermarket for it.

Wasn't the VK56 what they used for the Aussie V8 Supercar. They destroked it to 5Ls and then smacked it into their Altima. I am not sure what they did with it, but I thought the V8 was based off the one in one of the Nissan SUVs. That's why I thought they were high performers, just cause of the V8 supercars.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Imirrelephant 07/15/2014 at 18:18

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You are not the only one indeed.

Nissan thought it was a good racing engine too!

GhostZ > YSI-what can brown do for you 07/15/2014 at 22:14

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The VH is big. It's bigger than an LS engine, since it has around the same bore spacing and a much heavier (than pushrods) DOHC layout. It's also bigger than a Coyote engine, because it has wider bore spacing than the comparable DOHC. Here's some quick stats from google, but accurate or not, gives you an idea of the size.

VH Dimensions: 890 mm(L) x 740 mm(W) x 725 mm(H).

LS1: Dimensions: 635mm (L) x 533mm (W) x 622mm (H)

1UZ Dimensions (About 700mm in all directions, probably less tall than it is wide though)

Dodge 440 Dimensions: 762mm (L) x 736 (W) x 609mm (H)

Ford DOHC Modular 4.6: 711mm (L) x 762 (W) x 762 (H)

That wide bore spacing accounts for a nearly 30% increase in size that the VK/VH has over the 1UZ. The VH is actually closer to 440/42

DOHC setups are considerably taller and wider than pushrod setups, but if you made a DOHC 440, it would be about the same size as the VH. Part of the reason for the VH's insane length is that despite being a DOHC, it's not much wider than a large V8, that's because all of the peripherals are on the front and back of the engine, adding length to it.

Any of the VK engines could have been used for the V8 supercars, the VK56 was just the one that was being produced at the time, and had the widest bore for racing. If it didn't exist, they would just use the smaller VKs and adjust the bore and stroke accordingly. Otherwise, yeah, it was based off of the existing VK (which, in turn, is based off of the VH) block. 3.9 inches is the widest the bore can go, (it has a 3.9something bore spacing) but they take to stroking very well and can reach 6+ liters no problem. So, yeah, they're big.

YSI-what can brown do for you > GhostZ 07/16/2014 at 00:35

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HOLY CRAP 890mm. That is friggin enormous. Makes it more amazing that people get S13s and S14s to carry these things. The 1UZ is much narrower for a DOHC(I read somewhere it was around 620mm, although I have also read 700mm. . . I can't find a definitive source), part of it due to the fact that one of the cams(the intake) being driven by a belt, and the exhaust cam being driven off the the intake via gear drive.

I remember hearing that the Nissan team's engine lasts 2 or 3 times longer between rebuilds. I mean for a road car based engine that is pretty friggin good. I mean I know they have to use a current production engine(probably, I am guessing, i don't actually know the rules to V8 supercars), but it worked really well in race application!

I personally want a smaller lighter engine, with about 400hp, will that happen with a 1UZ? Well there is only one way to find out. Not to mention there is an aftermarket for it, despite it being small.

GhostZ > YSI-what can brown do for you 07/16/2014 at 01:26

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going off of 250 HP @ 5600rpms at 4000cc, this means that the engine has a mean piston speed of ~3000 ft/min. With a forged assembly, new cams, and other tweaks, it should be able to run to at least 3500 ft/min for peak power, maximizing at 6600 rpm, and a volumetric efficiency somewhere in the high 90%.

Some math: So to get 400HP with 4000cc with that RPM limit, you'd need to flow ~600 CFM. This necessitates about 5lbs of boost at the intake (more at the wastegate) if you also push the peak HP RPM up to 6600, or 8psi if you keep the RPM range the same (5600).

To get 400HP without boost, you'd need to hit peak HP at around 8000 rpm with high compression and high octane fuel. This necessitates a redline of around 9000rpm, which is a mean piston speed of 5000 ft/min, which is extremely high performance race car levels.

So... uh... invest in turbos?

YSI-what can brown do for you > GhostZ 07/16/2014 at 01:41

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Well if it means anything, someone got one to rev to 9300. It makes about 512hp. I really want to have one of these engines in a car at one point. People love to supercharge these engines, and I know they around 400hp with stock internals, no problem.

Wat, you dink I ned da turboos to get bag pwr out of des engines? Oh. . . oohhhhhh

GhostZ > YSI-what can brown do for you 07/16/2014 at 04:43

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That video shows 410 HP, not 512. I'm not sure I would believe a 4000cc engine without boost could make 512 HP at only 9000rpm. 410 makes perfect sense though.

YSI-what can brown do for you > GhostZ 07/16/2014 at 10:51

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I could have swore he said 420rwhp. So about 500 at the crank. Chech the description here!

HollywoodJackson > GhostZ 09/01/2016 at 23:14

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GhostZ... You seem to be very knowledgable to what the VK45DE can do. I currently own a 2002 Q45, and I am very interested in getting the ponies up in this engine. Where can I obtain solid information to increase the performance of this engine (600+ HP NA would be great!)