Holy Shit! I had no idea LR Defenders were the cheapest LR's

"Luc - The Acadian Oppo" (luc5) 07/07/2014 at 17:06 • Filed to: None

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These are not offered in North America but they should be. These fabulous machines have a starting price of only 23,100 pounds (~$39500 usd) and knowing that cars are always a bit more expensive in europe it would probably equate to about $33000-$35000 if it were sold here. WHAT A FUCKING BARGAIN!!!!!!!!!. and all these years I thought these were really expensive(I'm talking like $70K starting price).

you could probably buy a nice LR Defender 110 for under $50K new. at that price I'd buy one today if they were offered here.

I can totally see myself driving one of these and every time I park I will say proudly "LIKE A GLOVAAA"

505Turbeaux > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 17:10

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they did that in the 90's. Then decided you couldnt have the manual in it in 97 or so, they were gone a few years later. Used they are stupid cheap in Europe

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 17:13

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Yup, they're intended for farmers and contractors. Sigh* I really miss my dads 300Tdi 90...

Viggen > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 17:17

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I would do many things to get a 90 or 110 in NA. The ones that are here are stupidly expensive and it's getting hard to find an unmolested one.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > 505Turbeaux 07/07/2014 at 17:18

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IIRC they also had issues with being allowed to continue skirting airbag and bumper rules. Still a shame.

505Turbeaux > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/07/2014 at 17:19

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oh yeah it wasnt the auto only that killed it, it was alot of what you say.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 07/07/2014 at 17:20

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This is also why people equating Land Rover with luxury always get so damn confused. Defender: not now, nor ever was intended to be anything but a poor man's truck - and to get to that price point with heavy hand assembly causes it to be Very British in terms of leaks, finish, and even reliability.

CAAD2 > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 17:21

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Airbags. Airbags are why you cant buy a new one in the US.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > 505Turbeaux 07/07/2014 at 17:23

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According to Land Rover UK's website it comes standard with a 6spd manual with a 2spd manual transfer case.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 17:24

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And diesel. Also, described in marketing as a wagon, and available in brown.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > 505Turbeaux 07/07/2014 at 17:24

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All that means is that in about two years time I'm going to fly over to England and go dumpster diving in the scrap yards. I'll find a 25 year old Defender 110 with a nice body import it as is and then rebuild it just like my dad did with his 109 when I was a kid. It will probably cost me $20k but then I'll have the Defender I want god dammit.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/07/2014 at 17:30

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Yup, I just wish they'd streamline the production and keep it a body on frame truck. I find it hard to believe that they can't match the price of a Jeep with the right corrections to the production and supply line.

HammerheadFistpunch > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/07/2014 at 17:31

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It was the airbag exemption that got em, pure and simple.

505Turbeaux > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 17:32

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yeah, this is Land Rover USA I am talking about though. You could always get a stick over there

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > CAAD2 07/07/2014 at 17:34

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Who needs airbags anyway where's your sense of adventure? The way I see it is if you know your car will kill you if you crash you will probably be more careful when you drive it.

In a way airbags give a false sense of security therefor people are more careless thinking the airbag will save them if anything goes wrong.

I would be willing to risk it and drive with no airbags if it ment I'd be cruising in a Defender

Jobjoris > 505Turbeaux 07/07/2014 at 17:34

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Not sure what your definition of 'stupid cheap' is but 16k euros (20k$) for a 6-year old Defender with 220k kilometers on it I find hardly cheap at all.

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/l…

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/07/2014 at 17:35

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oh yes the beauty of these is they ONLY come in a diesel.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > 505Turbeaux 07/07/2014 at 17:36

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oh! I never even knew they were ever offered here at all. Thanks for clearing that up.

505Turbeaux > Jobjoris 07/07/2014 at 17:36

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you can still get a clapped out 80's model for 3K Euro, you cannot touch a Defender in the US for $20K in similar shape

CRider > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 17:37

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Just buy one of these.

Jobjoris > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 17:39

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Not sure what that 23k-pound price is off, probably the 'van' commercial vehicle (2-seats). Over here in the Netherlands they are extremely pricy if bought as a 'normal' car. Mainly due to its not so overly thrifty fuel consumption.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Jobjoris 07/07/2014 at 17:39

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In Canada that would qualify for stupid cheap. People here pay as much for a 6 year old jeep wrangler rubicon with as many kms. I would take a Defender before a Jeep any day. These "true" offroaders seem to keep their value pretty well.

Roberto G. > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 17:40

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If $40K dollars for a car as comfy as an oxcart is a bargain price for you, sure you still live on your parent's pocket money... I agree they can offroad, but I drove an 88 MB for 60 km on paved country roads some 20 years ago, and I still have my kidneys misplaced because of it.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > CRider 07/07/2014 at 17:40

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Luc - The Acadian Oppo > CRider 07/07/2014 at 17:41

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Garrett Davis > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 17:48

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Don't get me wrong, I love me some Defenders, and would kill to have one...

But holy shit are they over priced here. But for the price of a decently equipped Focus ST in the UK? Nice price all day long.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Jobjoris 07/07/2014 at 17:51

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yes that is for the 2 seat version. it gets a combined fuel economy rating of 10.0L/100kms which is way better than comparable vehicles. Here fuel is hovering at around $1.20/L so it could be feasible to have one of these as a "normal" car.

thrifty fuel consumption is subjective. if you compare to a Fiat 500 Diesel then no it's not so good. but if you compare to a Ford Raptor is fantastic.

Garrett Davis > Roberto G. 07/07/2014 at 17:59

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From what I've heard from people in the know, is that you can't really compare UK car prices to US car prices. For example, the Focus ST starts at ~$23k here, but starts at ~£21k in the UK — which equates to about $36k. They are very different markets.

Another example: The Ford Galaxy (an average minivan) starts at ~£25k, or ~$42k here. Going by that logic, who the hell would pay over $40k for a base minivan? That would be ridiculous!

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Roberto G. 07/07/2014 at 17:59

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I'm still pretty young so I can handle the rough ride for a few more years at least. I remember watching the Camel Trophy as a kid and thought these were the greatest thing ever. I think for me atleast it's just something you'd want to scratch off the bucket list of owning a Defender. I'd buy a Defender before a Jeep and a 4dr Rubicon would cost around 40K as well.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Garrett Davis 07/07/2014 at 18:02

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Thats what I mean, a base defender here if it was available would be in the low $30's which to me is a bargain. To buy one here you will need to spend 30K for a 20 year old Defender with 8 million miles on it.

CAAD2 > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 18:06

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Trust me, I love adventure as much as the next guy. Just pointing out that the Defender isnt available in the US marker after '97 because safety regulations changed and Land Rover decided it was too expensive to accommodate the new regs.

Garrett Davis > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 18:09

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Yeah, sorry, I guess I didn't make it clear that I was agreeing with you, haha

duurtlang > Garrett Davis 07/07/2014 at 18:10

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The Chrysler Grand Voyager starts over £28k ($48k) in the UK, to add some perspective.

You're right though, you can't directly compare European prices to US ones. One reason is that European prices are including (relatively high) VAT taxes. That's not the only reason though.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Garrett Davis 07/07/2014 at 18:12

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CRider > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 18:28

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No. It's better at going off road, it's better on road, it's smaller, it's more modern, it has a better aftermarket and it's cheaper. Quit bitching about the Defender and go buy the only real modern day military vehicle that is still here. Because when the Wrangler is gone, the only option for SUVs will be used ones, or giving up and buying a crossdresser crossover SUV.

CRider > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 07/07/2014 at 18:30

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A loaded Wrangler Rubicon costs close to or less than the theoretical new Defender would, and it's a better off road truck and a better car all around. Come to the Jeep side.

Garrett Davis > duurtlang 07/07/2014 at 18:32

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I made the same assumption a few months ago and someone corrected me, but unfortunately my original comment still get recommends on it even though I clarified that I was very wrong below that. I'm part of the problem, guys!

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > CRider 07/07/2014 at 18:36

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meh. I'd still get the defender because Camel Trophy.

Svend > CAAD2 07/07/2014 at 18:50

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Yep, primary reason was airbags couldn't be fitted. Land Rover said it would cost too much to, mind you in those days your Landie needed three keys, one for the door locks, one for the fuel filler cap and one for the ignition. Crazy really.

CRider > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 18:51

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You can put a snorkel on a Jeep, too.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > CRider 07/07/2014 at 19:02

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I agree with you that the Jeep can do everything the LR can no doubt about it. but IMO the LR is cooler. I respect the fact that you prefer the jeep but I prefer the LR.

it all comes down to personal preference.

CRider > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 19:08

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I'm not saying I prefer the Jeep- the LR is cool, it has a vibe that Jeeps don't have because there aren't as many. Wrangler are too common to have the same cool factor. I just like to play devil's advocate.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > CRider 07/07/2014 at 19:10

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better off road truck

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > CRider 07/07/2014 at 19:22

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I figured you were up to no good...lol. it's all good here in Oppoland

CRider > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 07/07/2014 at 21:21

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It is. It has a shorter wheelbase, front and rear lockers and front sway bar disconnects that the LR doesn't have. It also has an unbelievable aftermarket that can take it anywhere you could possibly imagine a car could go, and then some.

CRider > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/07/2014 at 21:22

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If you ever see me up to any good, my account has probably been hacked.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > CRider 07/07/2014 at 21:55

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Defender has a higher ground clearance, more towing capacity, more space for cargo, deeper fording depth, floating axles, a roof that can support more than the weight of a fat baby and an aftermarket that will match anything the wrangler has.

Lets face it, if you're running terrain where you truly need sway bar disconnects, you're throwing out the elockers and upgrading to air lockers anyway.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > CRider 07/07/2014 at 22:30

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Also this is a brown diesel station wagon with a 5 speed manual, your argument is invalid.

CRider > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 07/07/2014 at 23:33

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Higher ground clearance can be made up with larger tires. The tow rating and interior space is because it's a bigger, heavier vehicle. Which is good if you need a truck, but bad off road. The fording depth, again, can be easily improved. The Jeep has no solid roof (even the hard top comes off easily), but it does have a roll bar. I know which one I'd rather roll over in- the one that meets US safety regulations!

Some say elockers aren't as strong as air lockers, but there's a lot that can go wrong with air lockers. The main point is, the Jeep has lockers and the sway bar dicosnnect from the factory while the Land Rover has open diffs. You have no choice but to add aftermarket lockers to the Defender.

CRider > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 07/07/2014 at 23:37

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First of all, that's not a station wagon. Second, you can get a diesel in the Jeep overseas. Third, over here you can swap a HEMI into the Jeep, which is awesomer than the gutless diesel in the LR. And fouthly, the JK has a 6 speed manual, which is better than the 5 speed in that dinosaur. All of your arguments are invalid.

Jobjoris > 505Turbeaux 07/08/2014 at 02:17

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$20K? Extreme and seriously nuts. 3k euro you won't find a 'normal' clapped out 80's model easily though. Just RHD english imports in LHD countries maybe. Or ex-army vehicles. But $20K is really out of line.

Jobjoris > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/08/2014 at 02:48

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Not sure if everyone is able to buy a commercial van, it probably has some restrictions for consumers to buy (at least: That's what happens in the Netherlands). Nevertheless: the prices for used Defenders in the US are clearly over the top. Daily driving one I won't advise by the way as a previous frequent driver. I've owned a '06 F150 FX4 as well, that was way better suited to your daily commute.

10l/100kms for such a DIESEL in Euroland is thrifty nowadays. A Hilux, which I find more comparable to a Defender than a Fiat 500L with it's 1.3 diesel, 'just' 1300kgs and somewhat less drag, does 7,3. And a Raptor? Since when does that come with a diesel? Fuel consumption could be subjective, making a comparison like that clearly is not.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > CRider 07/08/2014 at 07:39

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Yeah but then you're raising the center of gravity and making the already lower roll over angle, well lower (Defender is 45° as apposed to the Wrangler 40°). This is because the Defender's body is made of aluminum which also has the added benefit of making the truck 50lbs lighter plus the Defender is 3 inches narrower AND the wheel base 110 inches (as apposed to 116 of the Rubicon) so the Defender is actually lighter and more nimble than the Rubicon. The Defender also has the option for a roll cage and the nice thing about the Defender's roof is that you don't get soaking wet every time it rains (my buddy has a Rubicon and when it rains we take my truck).

So lets review:

From the factory:

The Defender has:

Shorter wheel base.

More cargo and towing capacity.

Higher ground clearance.

5° better roll over angle and a roll cage (that meets US safety spec).

Deeper fording depth.

Longer overhang, yet better approach and departure angles.

Heavy duty suspension option removes the sway bars completely and triples the towing capacity of what the Wrangler can do.

Has a TC system that does electronically what a LSD does mechanically.

Floating axles so if you are stupid and break a half shaft you can still limp home

The Jeep has:

Longer wheel base.

Lower ground clearance.

Will roll over sooner.

Can't go as deep.

Is 3 inch wider.

Is heavier.

Has elockers which are better I'll give you that but they do kill your turning cirlce.

Has a shorter overhang, yet worse approach and departure angles.

Has quick disconnects.

Not floating axles, if you break a half shaft you're fucked. As in proper fucked.

Looking at that list, if I'm going to spend two weeks in the middle of the wilderness with a stock vehicle I'd much rather have something that allows me to bring everything I need and be able to cross water larger than a puddle. So....

If you want to talk about mods it becomes a wash because everything you can do in a Jeep, you can do in a Defender... because Portal Axles:

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > CRider 07/08/2014 at 07:42

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New Defenders have 6-speeds AND they are classified as Station Wagons. If you want to pull the HEMI card I have one word for you: Wildcat

505Turbeaux > Jobjoris 07/08/2014 at 09:09

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it is insane what they sell for over here. I'll just leave this here... http://www.eastcoastrover.com/ecrforsale.htm…

Jobjoris > 505Turbeaux 07/08/2014 at 09:36

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Muhaha! $75k, insane!!! V8's are pretty rare in Euroland though and a decent V8 could set you back 20k euros in a heartbeat. Just look at this one (and 30k euros is like what, $38K?): http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/l…

So we're not that lucky either when you keep our gas-prices in mind...

505Turbeaux > Jobjoris 07/08/2014 at 09:38

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one fellow who gets all the money for old inefficient V8 trucks, and ships a fair amount of them to Europe regardless of the fuel costs. I mean his stock is dead gorgeous, but 50 grand? http://wagonmaster.com/complete.htm

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Jobjoris 07/08/2014 at 09:48

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the Raptor does not come with a diesel I was just trying to say it's a gas pig compared to the Defender. Trying to be over exaggerating. I just think the Defender is bad ass and I want one. But I won't buy one here in Canada because they are way overpriced.

Jobjoris > 505Turbeaux 07/08/2014 at 09:56

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Ouch! These have increased in value over the last couple of years apparently! I really love those anyway. Better stop now before I again notice my own collection is too small anyways. Because I need an M715 fast...

Jobjoris > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/08/2014 at 11:51

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I was just saying you can never compare a diesel with a gas pig. The Defender is bad ass, enjoyed it (90 TD5) a lot but would never want one as my only car. Too bad they're overpriced over there but that's just for the better to keep you from owning it as a DD ;-)

Jobjoris > 505Turbeaux 07/08/2014 at 13:30

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Almost forgot the Dangel 505 4x4 even existed but for example this one should be even better to complete the collection:

505Turbeaux > Jobjoris 07/08/2014 at 13:43

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one of my dreams right there