Let's Talk About The Future of Drifting...More

"Mike Griffith" (photobygriffith)
07/05/2014 at 11:19 • Filed to: drifting, drift, formula d, formula drift

I'd like to start by saying that this is a sort of rebuttal to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . (Seriously, go read it, it's not too long, it's a wonderful read, and has some really pretty pictures.)

Paddy makes an important point that in the drifting community there are two main types of fans; grassroots fans who want every car to be "JDM AS F*CK" and never have more than 300 hp, and competition fans who want every car to be a rocket ship and have 9,374,285 hp. Don't believe me? Ask any drifting fan if they like V8's, and you'll see what I mean.

Sadly, as Paddy says, this holds back the sport as a whole, because many drivers and teams who wish to move into the professional world of competition are fearful that they will embarrass or alienate themselves as they move away from the grassroots spirit of drifting . Which is true to some extent.

Let's discuss the whole idea of the spirit of drifting , while we're here. This seems like a complete B.S. excuse for those who don't want to change and are probably still using Razor flip phones because the 2000's were the coolest. What is the spirit of drifting , anyway? It's, quite simply, screwing around and raising hell in relatively cheap cars. Look at the Matsuri events held at Ebisu in Japan every season, or the monthly ClubLoose events in New Jersey, or the random street drifting from some 18 year old kid in your upper-middle-class suburban neighborhood. ( What, me? Noooo, I was never that naive and stupid... ) Drifting is probably the dumbest thing you can do with a car, and yet every single gearhead loves it, whether you follow the actual sport or not.

So, at its most basic level, drifting is something that everyone enjoys and is about fun. What is rally racing about, at its most basic level? What is open-wheel racing about, at its most basic level? How about NASCAR?

This is my gripe with how many fans view drifting, as a sport. Yes, it's about fun. Yes, it was started by a bunch of dudes who wanted to drive like idiots and laugh like hell doing it. But so was every other type of motorsport. Yet, somehow, they've all moved on to bigger and better things, while those who still just want to have fun can do so with like-minded individuals. (Ex: LeMons)

Consider another sport, basketball. Lebron James plays basketball because he loves the sport. However, he plays in the NBA because he is good at it and wants to make money and win games, and ultimately championships. If he wanted to just have a good time, he would play pickup games with his buddies on a playground somewhere. He's still having fun while playing professionally, albeit a considerably different level of fun. And if the spirit of basketball is to have fun with friends, does that mean the NBA is too serious and shouldn't be?

Drifting seems to fall into this weird ideal partly due to the fact that most other forms of motorsport have been around for much, much longer and have had time to mature, and partly due to the fact that drifting is a judged sport and not based off time or distance or speed. Style is a huge part of judged sports, and is why most are drawn to drifting in the first place; it's different than most other motorsports. Drivers can be aggressive in tandem, can rub against walls, can hit each other. Cars can be subtle, or in your face, bright, and obnoxious.

But, again, style is important in other forms of racing too. We all know how boring smooth Jenson Button is and how perfect aggressive Fernando Alonso is. So why do drifting fans hold onto this mantra of "Keep Drifting Fun"?

Honestly, I think it's simply ignorance...Ignorance to other forms of racing. Paddy says in his story that he needed to walk away from drifting, get involved in other types of motorsport, and come back in to realize how the sport appeared to outsiders. Most fans of drifting are relatively young, and many are not traditional motorsport fans; much like Global Rallycross, fans are more involved in the extreme sports world of skateboarding, BMX, snowboarding, etc. They don't pay much attention to the competition aspect as they do to the action out on track and around them at the event.

Formula Drift has done an amazing job over the last ten years of growing the sport to monumental status, and did so in part by providing an entire event for fans to experience, rather than just watching cars destroy tires over and over again. In order to move forward from this point, the event itself won't be enough.

Drifting needs to get smarter . FD has been working on it, with clear definitions of scoring and real-time judging. But the focus now needs to switch from the fans to the sponsors and teams and drivers. The fans and their unrealistic views about the spirit of drifting are not to blame for the possible stagnation of the sport; they just want to see great driving and cool cars. The sport now needs to bring in new technology and new businesses to help develop the cars and teams to new heights, much like how Formula 1 reinvents itself every decade or so to remain relevant to both its corporate backers and fans.

How could drifting do this? What could they add to make competition more exciting and to engage more viewers, thus growing profitability? The sky's the limit. Speed may not be the answer...FD's last round in New Jersey proved that. Power levels can't get much higher, but who says limits are bad? Power and displacement caps and regulations could create even more clever engineering. (Remember that almost all professional drifting series have very little regulations regarding the vehicles.) Tire and Manufacturer championships in FD were a welcome addition that will hopefully grow into serious corporate-backed teams, much like the 3-car Falken Tire team.

Overall, the growth of drifting isn't going to slow down anytime soon, but it could definitely use a push to keep its momentum. Let's not worry about the spirit of drifting or keeping drifting fun...Let's worry about getting the sport out of its niche market and into the mainstream.

-Mike Griffith (mikegriffith@omgdrift.com)

DISCUSSION (100)

b-rock > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 13:50

Wanna talk about the future of drifting? One vote here for no future. I know lots of gear heads who HATE it.

Mike Griffith > b-rock
07/05/2014 at 14:37

Why? The sport itself, or the scene that comes with it?

PeteRR > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 15:13

It's the scene. Except for the girls they get, that part is envy. I doth possess it.

ThatbastardKurtis > b-rock
07/05/2014 at 15:15

Someone once told me that drifting is like automotive figure skating. Figure skating is still around. So, I guess Drifting will still be around...as long as we have wheels and tires on cars.

feather-throttle-not-hair > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 15:17

i'm not a fan of the scene, but i still go to my local Formula D event every year. 1000hp sideways around a banked oval in tandem with another driver, sometimes in the rain is impressive in person. It just is. I dont think it will ever stop being so. I'm in my mid 30's. This year my buddy and me are going with his dad who's over 60. I have NO doubts that we will all have a great time.

For Sweden > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 15:20

Kinja'd!!!

I was told there would be franks

jalop1991 > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 15:22

Drifting—isn't that the modern equivalent of "how big can I make the flames come out of my exhaust" from the 50s?

PeteRR > feather-throttle-not-hair
07/05/2014 at 15:22

The problem is it's a combination of hoonery and jackassery wearing a business suit. It is a completely subjectively judged sport that wants to eat at the adult's table. It smacks of ghost riding, bad body kits, bad haircuts, and badly misspelled tattoos in foreign languages.

EricD > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 15:25

Motorsports are not environmentally friendly in general, but drifting is so visually bad looking with the tire smoke. Why not just burn the tires in the parking lot when the race is over? I know just about every motorsports series has their moments of burning rubber, but the amount that drifting produces for the end product seems over the top.

Doppelkupplung > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 15:26

The problem is the bro culture in drifting. No one is going to take drifting seriously when that culture follows it.

Zoom > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 15:28

I was raised working for a dealership. I love motorsports. Racing mechanical things has always intrigued me.

That being said, I see no racing here. 'Subjective judging' based on 'style' will never occupy a huge portion of what a motorsports is all about. It's cool, no doubt. But cool in a car show sort of way.

Now, if the sport can come up with more concrete ways of scoring? Something easier to understand and follow while the 'racing'/'cars are moving' is going on (timed laps is pretty easy in every other form of motorsports ), maybe the motorsport masses will catch on.

But what I see here is one driver chasing another, trying to copy what the other is doing (!!??) and being judged subjectively on it. Cool concept, boring result. How can you take something as cool as blowing tires away sliding sideways on the verge of out of control, and make it lame with a jerkoff scoring style (wow, that was cool brah! 10!!)? Formula Drift.

KaptinBoxxi > b-rock
07/05/2014 at 15:34

i don't see what there is to hate. there's more reasons to hate things like NASCAR than there are to hate drifting. Lets see... only left turns? Or a controlled sliding motion making left and right turns while following as closely as you can to the person in front of you... i think we have a winner.

Maxaxle > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 15:42

My two cents:

1. Drifting is really good when it's competitive (either based on "style points", where each racer takes the course one at a time, or a combination of actual racing and "style points", where at least two racers are on the course at the same time), but pretty meh if it's just one person (and possibly their friends) derping around on a closed course/abandoned parking lot.

2. The scene is split between actual fans who may or may not drift themselves (10-20%) and people who abuse the term "JDM" and strap plastic crap to their cars (80-90%). The second group is also prone to street racing, stancing their cars, and claiming that they're "tuning" their cars by chopping springs and adding "aesthetic" garbage.

3. Anyone who hates actual drift racing (as opposed to "JDM as fuck" and "I handbrake all my turns") has no appreciation for what racing really is.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 15:48

Forgive my ignorance, I do not closely follow FD. But can't they include some telematics to aid in scoring?

Something that measures angle and speed and that then awards points based on a formula the weighs both variables at once; essentially like how one is awarded points in Fourtza.

Having a read-out above the cars during the broadcast would make it easier for new fans to follow. They would be able to see exactly how sideways and fast one driver is versus the other. There is still room for subjective human judging, but those would essentially be bonus points awarded after a run has been calculated by the computer.

This would also assuage those who contend that Drifting is too subjective and give them some concrete stats to measure drivers against each other.

One could even then use points bonuses and handicaps for power, displacement, etc. That way those who want to could continue to use the small-displacement/huge-boost engines that the grassroots fans have access to, while using a big V8 would have a penalty but could still win because torque is easier to make with a bigger engine.

Mike Griffith > feather-throttle-not-hair
07/05/2014 at 15:51

EXACTLY. No matter how much you hate the "scene", it's humbling to stand next to one of these machines.

I don't want to hang around people who wear all official Ferrari team garb, but I'll definitely deal with that to see Alonso drive.

Mike Griffith > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 15:52

Why the hate? What's wrong with hoonery and jackassery in a business suit?

Scaggnetti > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 15:58

I don't understand why drifting is so hated on Jalopnik. It's not my scene, but it's fast cars getting the fuck driven out of them. What is not to like? Having a good time in a car is Jalopnik. At least I thought it was.

Scrape > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 15:59

The issue is the subjectivity of it. Unlike other subjectively scored sports, there really is no rhyme or reason as to what constitutes a 'winner'. And it is just barely meets the definition of "sport"...in the same manner as bowling, croquet, or curling. It is more of an exhibition than a competition. It does not surprise me that today's youth like it so, as the hooliganism of it and the subjectiveness of it takes precedence over actual competition or skill to 'win'.

PeteRR > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 16:01

Unprofessional and dangerous actions dressed up to be made presentable so as to mask the unprofessional and dangerous actions are still unprofessional and dangerous.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 16:03

You feel like you dont fit in. Until you look around, shit eating grin plastered across your face and you realize that every single other person present is also wearing a shit eating grin.

Then you start to realize you do indeed fit in.

Chappy > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 16:08

I would love to see a class system for cars, like in sports car racing. Start out at the bottom with 4-cylinders that are relatively stock, then start to move into a class with more motor and more modding, and at the top have an unlimited class with a very small rule set. Obviously this is just an example, but it would at least satisfy some of the people who hate the 4-digit power figures.

Mike Griffith > feather-throttle-not-hair
07/05/2014 at 16:08

THIS DUDE GETS IT.

feather-throttle-not-hair > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 16:08

Do you just not like subjectively judged sports? Does skateboarding sit at the big boys table?

All those things besides ghost riding have been present at most of the formula D events I've been to. I recognize them as being foreign to me and not my style.

Then i sit back and realize my shit stinks just like everyone elses. To plenty of people out there, i'm just some boring schlub with no style who needs a haircut.

Then we watch cars drive sideways and none of it matters because we're all having fun.

sdwarf36 > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 16:09

1979-I went to a soldout Foxboro stadium to see TWO monter trucks. TWO-it sold out 60k seats. All the did was crawl slowly over a pair of cars-and the place went apeshit. 35 years later, they still have monster truck shows-and fill up stadiums. But the shows have evolved in part points competition-part freestyle. Then all added up to determine a winner. So how about breaking the drift show down to:

Barrel race: 2 or 3 barrels in a row-two laps you have to go around the barrel clockwise 1 lap-CC the other. On the clock.

Timed course: a very tight track (to make small car revelent against fast ones) Have movable 'targets' you have to hit with your rear end to score extra points.

And then freestyle- judged however they judge now.

Now you you have a car you need to make fast for the barrel racing-handle well for the timed short course-and be able to be 'awsome" with.

PeteRR > feather-throttle-not-hair
07/05/2014 at 16:13

I do not like subjectively judged sports. They almost inevitably descend into favoritism, vote-rigging, and corruption.

Widget_Master > EricD
07/05/2014 at 16:18

Not defending drifting here...but spinning your tires and burning rubber is a major part of drifting.

feather-throttle-not-hair > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 16:19

fair enough, those are valid complaints. I do take them less seriously than non-judged sports, but I still enjoy them as they often result in cool stuff happening.

Mike Griffith > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 16:24

You know the same can be said about any other type of racing, right?

Forgetful > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 16:27

I think the performance-art of drifting is interesting, but as a competition, I just can't get behind it. Judged events are too frustrating.

Ever watch Olympic boxing? There has never been a 'clean' tournament. There are always boxers who get screwed by judges.

It's just not sport if the results are a matter of opinion.

PeteRR > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 16:31

Auto racing is dangerous, but not inherently unprofessional like Drifting. That's why we don't deliberately burn our tires off or deliberately aim towards the wall or deliberately burn our ties off and aim at the wall while 10 feet away from another guy who's deliberately burning his tires off and aiming at the wall.

Mike Griffith > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
07/05/2014 at 16:33

This was tried awhile back in D1 over in Japan, and it failed miserably. Bad sensors, poor readings, etc.

The whole sport is based around style, not around speed and angle and line. It's about beating your opponent one-on-one and showing you are dominant.

SirUno > For Sweden
07/05/2014 at 16:34

OK...I know I'm supposed to wait until I get to my cousin's house tonight for dinner, but damn if that didn't just make me some kind of powerful hungry. Dick.

Mike Griffith > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 16:40

But you deliberately throw a car into a corner at much higher speeds knowing full well you could go off at any second and kill both you and anyone in the near vicinity?

I still don't understand the logic here man, no offense. Maybe you're seeing it as immature? Thinking back to the early days of F1, it seems to me like a lot of those guys were just as unprofessional and dangerous.

I believe it is an immature sport, which is the entire point of this piece.

PeteRR > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 16:46

Actually you don't throw your car into a corner at much higher speeds knowing at any second you could overwhelm tire adhesion because then you would spin out and lose many track positions. You drive the car at or below its limit, not beyond it.

It is a pointless sport.

Mike Griffith > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 16:50

Drifters drive their cars on the limit or below it as well...Define limit. You're at the limit of adhesion for all four tires, while drifters are at the limit of adhesion for the fronts to avoid spinning.

You're a pointless sport.

Seriously though, racing in general is pointless. Want to get technical? Every sport is pointless.

PeteRR > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 16:53

The point to racing is to get to the end of the race before your fellow racers. Drifting removes that objective and is mere exhibition with a thin glaze of subjective judging smeared on top.

Mike Griffith > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 16:58

The point of racing, in my opinion, is to win. Racing to a clock or distance is just a different way of winning. Drifting is subjective and has a different way to win, but a driver still wins all the same.

PeteRR > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 17:01

Drifting is not racing.

Kinja'd!!!

-Tom- > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 17:01

I look at "Keep drifting fun" as not being the guy who shows up to a small local even taking everything waaaay too seriously. Its supposed to be as social as it is physical. Help others out and if you need it, let others help you out. Dont be the quiet secretive douchebag who wont let others look under his hood and that shits on others criticizing their runs.

Fergo > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 17:08

Right, we get it. You're not a fan of drifting. Cool, good for you. Now what I can't figure out is why you are vehemently trying to convince others that drifting is not a sport. And you're failing miserably, you should probably stop making yourself look like a dolt.

PeteRR > Fergo
07/05/2014 at 17:10

I never said it wasn't a sport. Just pointless, subjective, and not racing.

ethanheisler > For Sweden
07/05/2014 at 17:16

Frankly, Formula D's fan base is slipping away.

Fergo > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 17:35

Reading over your comments again and you're right, I took them the wrong way, I concede to 2 out of 3 of your points

Somethingwittyer likes noisy > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 17:47

As someone who is a fan of traditional motorsport and drifting, this was a refreshing article. There are too many drifting fans that constantly bitch about LS usage or act that D1 is untouchable and no FD driver can compare. That and most of the comments on wreckedmagazine.com want to make me punch a hole through the wall given how ignorant some of them are.

Reckoning Day > For Sweden
07/05/2014 at 17:52

Well frankly you may be a weiner !

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 17:53

Okay...But if the whole point of your post is that Drifting needs to grow up, then embracing some form of substantive measuring for scoring instead of only subjectivity will help fans who like the sport but cannot make the transition to loving it because they do not understand, or do not like the current scoring system.

It also adds a true measurement system based on concrete science. It does not take anything away from the spirit of the sport. If the goal is to be better, then one should strive to achieve bigger angles with more speed and longer time. That is what drivers currently try for is it not? Only if it is measured they can use those findings to improve their skills, and not just try to appease judges who want certain stylistic actions.

I'm not advocating for the removal of the judges. Both systems of scoring can be used harmoniously. One score for technical metrics, another subjective score based on judges determination of style. Straight add or combine the two how ever is fairest.

IH8Tumblr > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
07/05/2014 at 18:39

you can't quantify drifting like that unfortunately. during single runs, sure. you can put some kind of measurement out there but during a competition your whole goal is to have more "impact" than the guy you are chasing, or try to get away from the guy chasing you while still having the same "impact"

mr2gud2u > Scaggnetti
07/05/2014 at 18:42

I could not agree more. I thought Jalops were about having fun in our car. Whether its a Panther or a Miata. Funny thing is I'm not a big fan of many Japanese cars, the JDM as F*ck culture or Stance is a lifestyle BS. I'm probably a little to old to get it, but I do love me some drifting.

///DARKSTAR > Widget_Master
07/05/2014 at 18:47

who doesn't like a big, smokey burnout? These guys are practically doing it for minutes. I wish I could afford to buy tires like they do.. that can't can't be cheap.. hope they are sponsored by a tire Co.

Race car drivers are considered athletes. It takes skill to persform with precision.

It's not exactly my thing either but as an auto enthusiasts we should be able to appreciate it.

MediaGuy_JBanner > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
07/05/2014 at 18:50

The biggest problem to adding telemetry to these chassis the wide variety of chassis in FD and the need to calibrate them. You have Mustangs, Vipers, 240SXs, and Corollas and all four of them vary dramatically in size. That was the biggest problem with D1USA's driftbox when they used it.

You also already have amazing chassis innovations without engine limits. I have been involved, media wise, with FD for over 7 years. I can tell you, there is far more innovation in these chassis than you see in most US road racing cars, save for FIA GT3 based cars. Angle kits are a big thing and the latest innovation in FD. At one time, only McPhearson Strut cars could only get large steering angles and now cars like the Miata, S2000, and RX8 all have solutions despite being double wishbone.

The thing FD needs to do, and is in the process of doing, is an improved TV package for live broadcast. They are getting closer and closer each year. It will be here soon.

ScreenShot > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 18:57

Kinja'd!!!

Adam144 > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 19:34

Maybe between this and the autocross acceptance article Jalopnik and opposite lock can start a Purple Ribbon campaign of anti bullying with Ellen Degeneres. Or you could realize that a lot of other people just like what they like and dislike what they dislike based on many factors and stop trying to justify them to gain unwarranted credibility. Why not lawn mower racing man? Why not? Why the hate? Where's the support?

NickD > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 19:52

Sorry, but you're competely wrong in my opinion . Drifting should stay fun and true to spirit and maybe that means it will never be mainstream. I think it would be like autocross which is by no means mainstream but there's tons of events,it's easy to get into and tons of fun. Who cares if drifting doesn't get as big as Nascar, why is that important to anyone expect investors. It certainly won't make a difference to people who want to go have fun at local events and occasionally watch some great drifting by pros at a fun event.

mpieman > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 19:58

Yes the sensors were not adequate, but instant replay sucked when it was introduced too. The technology that made everything suck in the eighties got better and more accurate, and now cars driveability is the best it has ever been. In a few years, then it will only be the drivers that will suck. If you race as a pro, then two hundred bucks of proximity sensors won't be a big deal.

Also, there has to be categories of machines. LeMons , Sebring, and other tracks have multiple classes of cars race at the same time. This way, the thousand horsepower tube frame monsters won't compete against the three hundred horse power JDM cars made from real cars.

I trust the drift people will figure it out soon.

mpieman > sdwarf36
07/05/2014 at 20:02

How would we like figure eight challenges too? Five lap chase?

mpieman > EricD
07/05/2014 at 20:08

Listen, lady, next time you are dragged to an event, don't wear white, get a hat, leave your attitude and cell in the trunk, and just enjoy the show? They are burning their money, not yours.

humblecyclist > Forgetful
07/05/2014 at 20:31

Having Initial D so ingrained in my head I view drifting as a technique (as a means to an end) to win a race and not the sole basis for a competition. If drifting competitions were actually races that just happened to have drifting I would appreciate that more. The competitions should also be on mountain passes and tracks instead of sections.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > IH8Tumblr
07/05/2014 at 20:38

Why the fuck not? Making an impact should involve things like bigger drift-angles, higher speeds, or longer times spent sideways. All those things can be measured. Regardless of how the track is laid out.

Bigger 'impact' equals bigger numbers, which equals better drifting. There is ZERO reason why drifting cannot be quantified.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > MediaGuy_JBanner
07/05/2014 at 20:47

Every other sanctioned racing series has the same chassis variation, if not more, and they still manage to add telemetry to their racing cars.

I want to quantify things like drift-angles, speed, times spent past a certain degree of drift, etc; all the things that are already subjectively judged anyway.

Better/wider TV coverage will certainly win over some more fans. But what he sport needs to do if it wants to grow up is add quantifiable statistics to each race. There is still room to have both the objective and subjective judging. You would get two scores, one based on certain metrics taken from the measured data, and another from the judges on subjective style. Combine them however the powers-that-be wish to reach an overall score for each driver.

Then you can easily see where one driver held an angle longer, at a different speed to achieve their score. The cars can still all be different. That adds to it. If certain builds can't get past a certain angle and remain controllable, then the driver will have to vary their technique to stay in the race. Which is what they already are doing.

Drifting is not like electrons. It can be observed and measured at the same time.

b-rock > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 20:54

I've given (spectating) the local drift events a good shot — and as much as it was entertaining, I walk away thinking it was all just pointless and stupid — all style and smoke.... with judges! The scene?... well, I like to let crazy bastards do whatever they want (but PLEASE stop breaking Corolla GTS axles because I need one and they shouldn't cost so much). Almost every guy I know with previous motorsport experience (i.e. The Old School) cannot understand or accept drifting enough to think it's at least a fun curiosity... They really just laugh. "What? It's not a race? It's a style contest?" Dismiss. I'm on the fence... It's not racing and I think it's pointless, but I like that dudes can have a smoky blast for next to no money — just helmet, tires, hp, welded diff, stiff springs and steering angle.... It's not like there are any other options for cheap motorsport (unless you like all the waiting and wankers at AutoX).

kyleshootscars, Eurotrash Tragic > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
07/05/2014 at 21:08

A variation of this idea was tested out in NZ back in 2012, and it seemed to work pretty well. Mike Widdett (with the help of some boffins with fancy computers and what-not) rigged up a sensor field around a drift track with seemingly great success.

kyleshootscars, Eurotrash Tragic > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
07/05/2014 at 21:08

Rwlong > KaptinBoxxi
07/05/2014 at 21:13

Or a controlled sliding motion while making a left turn, while following as closely as you can to the 43 other cars, doing close to 200 mph, for hundreds of miles. Nascar, there I fixed it for ya.

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 21:22

"... this holds back the sport as a whole ..."

I don't think so. It'll go where the demand takes it; JDM, or V8, or wherever. And that's just fine.

a good variety

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 21:26

Okay, it's still fun.

Hectic > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 21:41

Not a fan, but as an earlier article about fellow enthusiasts reminded me; if you can't say anything nice....stfu.

Frank Grimes > For Sweden
07/05/2014 at 21:49

Hey Frank here checking in.

LongbowMkII > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 21:56

if anything I think the top drift cars make it boring. Of course you can drift a tube frame chassis with a 900+ supercharged LSx. If anything there should be power limits. Holding an 80's z car with maybe 150hp sideways is more impressive.

Tygur > LongbowMkII
07/05/2014 at 22:25

Agreed. Its the same with every sport. Hard for me to watch anything at pro level (except maybe rally). It starts to seem more like an infinite set of math calculations. You almost always know whats going to happen. Feels drained of spontaneity. More and more equipment taking effort off the person and placing it on their tools instead.

Kek360 > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 22:28

I like drifting but i dont really enjoy "competitive drifting". For me the only competitive drifting is Togue style where you are racing, and not trying to show off the most.

techinsanity2011 > ScreenShot
07/05/2014 at 22:30

HellPhish89 > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 23:00

'Judging' is the problem. Its the equivalent of ice dancing and freestyle moto.

NASCAR, Rally, Indycar, F1, etc, etc is about finding out who has the fastest car and who is the fastest driver. Until FD and similar figure out a way to get rid of judges, itll be car dancing.

Seeing as drifting requires controlled loss of control... power/displacement limits seem hollow and useless.

Oh and by and large... F1 sucks with the new rules. The only reason to watch at this point is the technology.

Disclaimer: this is not to say it doesnt require incredible skill and talent to do. Just that on a competition level, it will never compare to motorsports where the clock and finish line are the determining factor.

Jefferz > Mike Griffith
07/05/2014 at 23:04

With all this being said. I like to go fast road racing is a blast. Then there's drifting, that same corner you were hard braking and sliding through the apex last weekend, your now throwing your car sideways at over 100 into a turn. Its seriously one of my favorite motorsports and one of the most difficult that Ive ever done.

derhoggz > PeteRR
07/05/2014 at 23:06

The drifters that come in where I work are more well behaved than the karting parents.

Forgetful > humblecyclist
07/05/2014 at 23:33

That's Touge racing though. It's a very specific form of racing that incorporates drifting. In any normal form of racing, drifting is useless.

PeteRR > derhoggz
07/06/2014 at 00:05

You're not exactly setting the bar very high. Hah.

porchswingheroswingsagain > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 00:15

my biggest issue with this entire article is the obsession with growth and making drifting mainstream.

Every time someone tries to take a niche... anything and make it mainstream. You take all the flavor and water out down till its just piss. Sure more people drink the piss because of its former reputation. Then a month later piss is closing g its doors cause no one wants to drink piss.

Zoom > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 00:24

Again, dominant at what? Style?

Please. Go shop for another hat.

MediaGuy_JBanner > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
07/06/2014 at 00:43

If I remember the issue with calibration was that it had to do with placement of the box to calibrate for the angle of the car while on track. Say, for example, you took a Mustang and a BMW Z4 and placed the sensor dead center of both dashboards, they would not be measuring from the same place and the angle would be skewed. Now, lets say you take and place that same sensor in the same cars, but mandate where they are to be placed by measurement. You problem now is what do you base your measurements on: location of the front wheel, dash, driver's position? No matter what you base the measurement on, the location will be different for each car and probably won't give you an accurate reading.

You could use a G-meter and steering angle based system, but again you're going to run into problems with calibration for every car because of the wide variety of steering angle you have for each car to get the same vehicle angle. So far no one hasn't come up with a good solution.

Honestly, the big problem is trying to quantify a judged sport and not educating fans on what the judges are looking for. The X-Games continues to show the way in educating audiences so they get an idea of what the judges are looking for in the participants run. You never see the speed of a angle of a whip in MotoX Freestyle or the actual rotation of the board in Skateboard vert. Remember, the current way drifting is judged in Formula Drift while in qualifying is by angle, style, and line. Speed is only a factor in certain tie-breaking situations and have been used this year. In tandem eliminations, it is the style and line of the lead driver and the proximity of the following driver that determines the winners.

wizkashifa > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 00:44

Me? No, I haven't tried to prove the hellaflush kids wrong by getting sideways in a front wheel drive Lexus. No siree, this 18 year old is only happy that the US is welcoming of sports from other nations, besides the one time every four years we can shout "I believe we will win" at the top of our lungs.

schassislove > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 00:55

i don't get why drifting causes this massive shitstorm everytime it gets talked about. its a bunch of people sliding around in cars. who gives a rats ass if the car is powered by a v8? if you press the accelerator and the car moves forward, i couldn't give a shit what is making it move forward. same goes with the whole grassroots crowd vs the formula drift crowd. there's several classic/vintage racing series around the world that have no beef with the many modern racing series like f1 and touring cars, so i don't see why we can't all just accept we have different preferences and enjoy our hobby, which is sliding around in a car for fun.

humblecyclist > Forgetful
07/06/2014 at 00:59

I appreciate that format of racing if it's real life or animated. It's about the pass and not about time/lap placement. Whether the drivers use drifting or not is up to them and I find it more compelling than let's say oval track racing. LeMans is what it is, Formula 1 is what it is as is WTCC. Drifting in normal races like those would send the safety record back to the stone ages if drivers tried it. I agree that drifting doesn't work in a normal race where time/lap placement matter, but this is about the future of drifting and I don't think it lies in judged competitions based on execution and huge motors on short courses. I'm down if it's used in a one on one race where it can either be used defensively in a "pass" situation or for a bit of flair. If they tried it with appropriate cars on Pikes Peak going downhill, then that would be a spectacle.

LugNutz > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 01:12

No ball, no sport. Sorry to be one to break it to you.

boogiebones > ThatbastardKurtis
07/06/2014 at 01:45

Exactly. Any competitive activity whose outcome is determined by judges is more of an exhibition than a sport to me. I just don't care for most of them. Diving, snowboard freestyle, figure skating, freestyle motocross, drifting, synchronized swimming, whatever...

Don't get me wrong, the people doing it are definitely athletes and a lot of what they do is downright amazing but if i needs judges it feels more like an artistic thing than a sport.

Hifrequency > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 01:47

Endurance races are out of the question.

boogiebones > KaptinBoxxi
07/06/2014 at 01:50

Not defending Nascar, but "a controlled sliding motion making left and right turns while following as closely as you can to the person in front of you" then a judge determines if you did it the best could easily be describing synchronized swimming.

reiska > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 02:03

Personally I see many similarities between the rise of Rallycross and Drifting. Rallycross grew out of hooning around, but with dirt/grass sections to even everyone out. When ex Group B rally cars were used and everyone stuck their radiators in the boot it grew very fast. But it faced a similar financial bottleneck that Drifting has now of guys spending huge amounts of money on 800hp bespoke race cars each weekend to bear the spectre of destroying it for entertainment of the crowd or judges.

Kinja'd!!!

The Skidpad in Aussie/NZ has a similar bloodlust with your bogun buddy making circular motions with his arms out the window and the driver walking away like he DGAF when it is on fire. It seems a rather pointless and destructive spectical now compared to Drifting.

Illegal Machine > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 04:05

"Drifting is probably the dumbest thing you can do with a car, and yet every single gearhead loves it, whether you follow the actual sport or not."

Except NAW. Drifting competition is the automotive equivalent of Figure Skating.

I prefer my subjective judging in comment sections, not my motorsports.

And the scene itself.....good lord. Tires that burn off different colored smoke? Figuring ways to make your car have less grip?

AND FOR CHRISTS SAKE: NO MORE GYMKHANA VIDEOS!!

Drifting will go away. I'd just hoped it would happen sooner. I couldn't believe Formula D was even still around.

Davesteedy > b-rock
07/06/2014 at 05:59

What a ridiculous thing to say. What form of motorsport are you involved in? I guarantee there are plenty of gear heads who HATE that too. That is the nature of the world. What are you even doing on here? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Davesteedy > b-rock
07/06/2014 at 05:59

Davesteedy > PeteRR
07/06/2014 at 06:34

What a douche! Arguing on forums is like the special Olympics, even if you win you are still retarded. If you don't have some CONSTRUCTIVE input, then bugger off and save us from your depression. Not part of the solution=part of the problem.

Bird > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
07/06/2014 at 07:24

I'm going to step away from the figure skating comparison, and go somewhere else (and sorry for replying to a day old post, I'm behind).

It's like art. You can't scientifically quantify it, because it's inherently different to everyone. The importance of art, in my opinion, is to have an impact on the subject. To evoke feeling. I think any judged sport has an element of that. It's about the impact it has.

You can look at any race car driver, and they have a style. Even in quantitatively judged motorsports, the fans react to that. It's part of what draws them to it. Although not an element of the competition, it makes the fans happy. Drfiting makes that style and impact the competition.

ZeeeeCar > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 07:45

Judged sports aren't sports.

Figure Skating isn't a sport, Gymnastics isn't a sport, Free Form Jazz Experimentation isn't a sport, and Drifting isn't a sport.

All of those things can be very cool, very fun and very entertaining.

None of them are sports.

/endrant
/flamesuiton

ZeeeeCar > ThatbastardKurtis
07/06/2014 at 07:46

It's exactly like figure skating...

Mister_Moon > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 07:49

I've never been a fan of subjectively judged sporting events. There is plenty of great sideways action in motorsports if you know where to look, all done in the name of going fastest. WRC rallying is probably the first thing that comes to mind for most Jalops. Let me suggest another, often overlooked alternative. About 3 miles from my home there is a 3/8 mile clay oval that hosts very exciting and very sideways Late-Model dirt track action for 18-20 weeks every year. And for even more noise and speed, the World of Outlaws sprints come at least once a year. First guy across the line wins. It's fast, fun and inexpensive entertainment.

AlexT > PeteRR
07/06/2014 at 07:52

You can look at it as the same way with skiing. There is down hill racing and the fastest one down wins. Then there is freestyle where they do the best tricks as possible and they are also judged. So freestyle skiing is immature because they do it for style instead of getting down the mountain first?

PardonMyFlemish16 > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 08:00

I think it should be whatever an individual wants it to be. Personally I find the whole sport aspect of it to be very cheesy. Kind of like JDM flavored monster trucking. Ehhh then again I find the whole Initial D purist angle to be pretty cheesy. Just another of millions of ways for dorks to try and assert themselves over the mass majority of people who don't give a shit about the meaningless minutae and subtleties of their interest. I do like drifting though. It's fun and thanks to video games I've been "drifting" for a decade or so, just how I like it- without the complications and annoyances of other people and the "scenes" and hoity toity "omg u arent as knowledgeable as me about something completely unimportant" attitudes.

So yea, Im not quite sure why the sport has to grow. I couldn't care less.

Color-Commentary > Doppelkupplung
07/06/2014 at 09:21

You're probably right, but watching on TV or streaming 'net video, one doesn't really see the culture aspect. It just looks fun and outlandish, and definitely takes skill.

Brenda A. Rivard > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 10:22

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Galant Enthusiast > Mike Griffith
07/06/2014 at 10:31

Why not just make some different classes? I like how much power the pro drift cars have.